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Old 11-01-2012, 03:43 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I honestly do not have any concern about the safety of my dogs in the house or the yard. You guys make it sound like she's a monster waiting to attack my girls, without even knowing her and you are judging that little dog just from her leash reactivity, making it sound like she can't be in a home with other dogs.

Here is a newsflash: She has no issues with the two girls in the house. If that was the case, she would have shown it within the last two weeks.
Matter of fact is, she plays, romps, shows affection to both the girls.

Yes, these are three females. Yes, she has re-directed and snapped at Nala and Indra when she saw another dog on a walk and because of my previous experiences I do not take it lightly and got a muzzle right away.

However, I did have her interact with other dogs, she never met before, and she did not show any kind of aggression towards them. Except for the leash reactivity, this is an awesome little dog and not a female eating monster.
She has a very high will to please, is highly trainable and driven. I know we can use that to our advantage.
Next week I'll meet with my friend and she will give me her honest opinion and I'm pretty sure that it can be worked out. This is not a dog that can't be worked with.

As long as she is in this house, I will work with her. I do hope that I can find her a working home because I know she will have to be worked. She's not a couch potato and would excel in detection and/or sport.

Last edited by Mrs.K; 11-01-2012 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 11-01-2012, 03:52 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Nobody implied she was a monster.

Redirected aggression is tricky. IME, first it was one trigger then another was added and another. It builds on itself. And, while I don't think the owner was lying, I wonder if the actions were accurately evaluated. Ma went for the other dogs throat. I know I harp on that but it bothers me. IME, a dog only goes for the throat when it's serious about doing harm. Jax could easily grab Sierra's throat but she doesn't. The wounds Sierra gets, while latched to Jax's throat, is from Jax defending herself similar to the wounds that Ma has.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:08 PM   #23 (permalink)
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u should see if they make a muzzle in pink or something lol

there are dogs with wire muzzles that go to off leash dog trails and parks they just run around chasing other dogs with these huge muzzles on their faces.

2 of them are shepherds.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:17 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Yeah. While she's sweet, she does have some sharpness in her but I think that comes with the breed.
I have heard more stories of re-directed bites from Mals than from any other breed--Mal people get really offended when I say this, but it does seem to be a breed trait, that hair-trigger snapping reaction. I guess there's a reason they call them "Maligators!" Very wise of you to go out and get a muzzle immediately upon seeing this behavior, rather than waiting to see what would happen.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:24 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Surprise- she goes from 0 to 500 in two seconds and she is a bit reactive!

Yup. She's a malinois. Sure, some aren't this way but many are. Muzzling is fine to keep everyone safe but be aware that this could just build frustration for her if you don't get to the root of the problem.

That is, she sure better be looking to you for direction when you see another dog and not flipping out. You could go the slow route which is desensitize, positive reward for remaining calm, or the faster route which is correction for stupid behavior and not listening to a command and reward for good behavior.

Use the ball and tug drive to your advantage. She can redirect some of that frustrated energy on a tug or ball and learn to wait and work through the reactivity with time.

I like to teach my dogs neutrality. I don't need them to make any other dog friends or to think that other dogs are exciting or play buddies. For a malinois like this, it may be the best way to go.

And if you need to re-home, that is fine, too.

I personally do not think that this dog has long-term issues from being attacked. I think this is simpy the breed and her entering adolesence/early adulthood. Malinois are known for handler aggression and redirection. You need to develop a plan to deal with it. A muzzle does not change the dog's mindset. A good failsafe, but not the end solution, in my opinion.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:25 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Here is a newsflash: She has no issues with the two girls in the house. If that was the case, she would have shown it within the last two weeks.
Matter of fact is, she plays, romps, shows affection to both the girls.
Here's a newsflash for you: That is simply not ture. She is not yet settled in and is still on her best behavior. She has not yet started testing you or your dogs.

I hope, for everyone's sake, that it works out and no one else is hurt but you are way too comfortable that this is how it is going to be forever. And the truth is you simply can't know that yet. It takes 2-3 months for dogs to START settling into a new home, especially when stepping into an already established pack. You have months to go before you can declare she is a "prefect fit".
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:14 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Surprise- she goes from 0 to 500 in two seconds and she is a bit reactive!

Yup. She's a malinois.
That is what everyone seems to forget.


As for if she is a fit or isn't. I know when a dog is a fit or isn't a fit. She is a fit!

And for her not testing. Jamie, how do you know if she is testing me or isn't. You don't know her. You are assuming things.
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:19 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Surprise- she goes from 0 to 500 in two seconds and she is a bit reactive!

Yup. She's a malinois. Sure, some aren't this way but many are. Muzzling is fine to keep everyone safe but be aware that this could just build frustration for her if you don't get to the root of the problem.

That is, she sure better be looking to you for direction when you see another dog and not flipping out. You could go the slow route which is desensitize, positive reward for remaining calm, or the faster route which is correction for stupid behavior and not listening to a command and reward for good behavior.

Use the ball and tug drive to your advantage. She can redirect some of that frustrated energy on a tug or ball and learn to wait and work through the reactivity with time.

I like to teach my dogs neutrality. I don't need them to make any other dog friends or to think that other dogs are exciting or play buddies. For a malinois like this, it may be the best way to go.

And if you need to re-home, that is fine, too.

I personally do not think that this dog has long-term issues from being attacked. I think this is simpy the breed and her entering adolesence/early adulthood. Malinois are known for handler aggression and redirection. You need to develop a plan to deal with it. A muzzle does not change the dog's mindset. A good failsafe, but not the end solution, in my opinion.
I agree. I thought about that too or a combination of the two. She's a year old, doesn't know much and simply hasn't had any manners when she first moved in. She's been first testing me with jumping on me for attention. We got that worked out already.

She is basically testing all day long what she can get away with and what she can't get away with. So this might just be part of it.
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Old 11-01-2012, 06:02 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Nobody implied she was a monster.

Redirected aggression is tricky. IME, first it was one trigger then another was added and another. It builds on itself. And, while I don't think the owner was lying, I wonder if the actions were accurately evaluated. Ma went for the other dogs throat. I know I harp on that but it bothers me. IME, a dog only goes for the throat when it's serious about doing harm. Jax could easily grab Sierra's throat but she doesn't. The wounds Sierra gets, while latched to Jax's throat, is from Jax defending herself similar to the wounds that Ma has.
I've actually heard from a couple of different trainers that I work with that it's not uncommon for dogs to go for the front legs first and try to debilitate their opponent and then go for the throat or belly... I don't know how true this is or if it's breed specific but I've encountered it with Sasha and Scarlett in our own pack and also another of my friends whose dog almost died after he got into a fight with another dog and the dog broke one of his legs and severely injured the other. He almost died because the infection was so deep in both legs. So I wouldn't automatically jump to the Mal as the aggressor as it seems different dogs do have different fighting "strategies."

One that same note, I have to agree with Jamie that it takes a good couple of months to really tell how dogs, especially girls, are going to get along in the long run... It took Sasha 4 months to initiate a fight with Scarlett and it hasn't stopped since. I tell you what though, the first four months were perfect. No neon signs of trouble to come and then BAM. Scarlett raised her lip to Sasha because she was in her space and Sasha took it personally.
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Old 11-01-2012, 06:24 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Mrs.K, when are you ever going to admit you don't know everything there is to know about everything. I had Jazzy and Arwen together 24-7 for a couple of months. I had no idea they would start WWIII. Now I know better. They were 2 years and 3 years old when I put them together.

We tried to spare you some grief.

I have had dogs that have been in fights, good fights where there were stitches and drains, and they NEVER showed ANY leash aggression or dog aggression toward outside dogs after the fact. A dog should recover from that. They do not all I understand, but that is indicative of poor nerve in my opinion.

And as for wanting to please, Jazzy and Arwen both had that trait to the extreme. It has nothing to do with whether they will show aggression to other dogs within the pack or without. Jazzy was aggressive to strange dogs, Arwen never, not before or after.

Whether this Malinois has a genetic issue, or is typical for her breed has little to do with whether it makes sense to keep her in a family setting with a bunch of young dogs, most of them female. And the more this dog ramps up into fight mode, the more likely someone is going to get hurt bad.
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