Neighbors questioning Harley's attack. Dont know true answer

[Jag]

I would use caution walking along a fence line with another dog on the other side. He may act totally normal without that fence, but with it become hostile and frustrated. Not saying he did, but it's possible. If you want your dog on 'ignore' for other dogs, the second your dog looks in that direction...correct. I did this with my female (not that it worked, but she was insane so it's moot). It WILL work with a mentally stable dog. This is how my first dog was trained. No look. With no look, there's no going into prey drive. I'm wondering, though, if you had a prong on him, why did you step in front of him with the squirrel? Did you use the prong for correction when he honed in on the squirrel? If not, give the correction. Head should turn to you ("what do you want?") then you praise like crazy (or just mark it with "yes!") and give a command ("sit" or "down") then praise that. You want him heeling with you so you have that control. If he's not heeling, your prong correction isn't going to be effective. Does he heel for you now? If not, that's your number one goal. Otherwise, the prong will only work for self correction (pulling) and you can't correct other behaviors (no look, no chase) with it. JMO

BTW... you CAN do it!!

[wolfy dog]

Originally Posted by Jag

Ok, I'm going to be the 'odd man out'. I agree with the prong, not the muzzle, though. This dog isn't DA, it was in prey drive. Get yourself a hiking pole or a large stick. You can whack either your own dog if it gets rushed by a small dog or whack the small dog that shouldn't be out of its yard.

Odd, indeed to say the least.....

[martemchik]

Originally Posted by Jag

Ok, I'm going to be the 'odd man out'. I agree with the prong, not the muzzle, though. This dog isn't DA, it was in prey drive. Get yourself a hiking pole or a large stick. You can whack either your own dog if it gets rushed by a small dog or whack the small dog that shouldn't be out of its yard.

The dog that was killed was in its own yard...her GSD broke away from her and ran into that dog's yard and killed it. How many times on this forum are people saying "stay out of my yard and you won't get hurt." or "My dog can do whatever it wants in my yard." So now you're kind of giving this dog a pass for violating another dog's yard and going in and killing it. Sorry...if you can't have control of your dog on leash, you need to have it muzzled. I had a dog try to attack mine a few weeks ago when the leash "slipped" out of the owner's hand. I didn't care...I have a GSD that protected myself and himself and it didn't escalate...but if I had had a smaller dog we'd probably be discussing a different incident.

I get it...OP wants a normal dog, one that isn't dangerous or isn't thought to be dangerous by the neighbors. And until OP can do that they should do everything possible to make sure something like this never happens again. If a muzzle is an answer in the short term then that's what they should use.

[selzer]

Originally Posted by martemchik

The dog that was killed was in its own yard...her GSD broke away from her and ran into that dog's yard and killed it. How many times on this forum are people saying "stay out of my yard and you won't get hurt." or "My dog can do whatever it wants in my yard." So now you're kind of giving this dog a pass for violating another dog's yard and going in and killing it. Sorry...if you can't have control of your dog on leash, you need to have it muzzled. I had a dog try to attack mine a few weeks ago when the leash "slipped" out of the owner's hand. I didn't care...I have a GSD that protected myself and himself and it didn't escalate...but if I had had a smaller dog we'd probably be discussing a different incident.

I get it...OP wants a normal dog, one that isn't dangerous or isn't thought to be dangerous by the neighbors. And until OP can do that they should do everything possible to make sure something like this never happens again. If a muzzle is an answer in the short term then that's what they should use.

Dogs might not have the same feelings we do about where the grass turns from our grass to the neighbor's grass. So if it was prey drive on our lawn, or on the neighbor's lawn, it really makes little difference in how you react to the behavior, whether you train or manage or socialize or muzzle. It matters, but only on human terms, who is liable for the vet bills, whose dog might be euthanized. I mean, if the dog kills a dog on your land, no one should be able to euthanize the dog for that. But if your dog trots over to the neighbor's and kills their dog, the AC can, generally on a repeated offense recommend and in some cases require euthanasia. This is not to punish the dog, but to prevent it from happening again. And it is the people who suffer, both dog owners will suffer, but one is more to blame.

I don't know about the muzzle. If people could be reliable enough to keep their small dog from plowing into your dog wherever they are, then you can probably do without it. But people are not reliable. People let dogs get right up in other dogs' faces all the time. People use flexi-leads and their dogs just go wherever. People leave their dogs loose, and they charge up.

Frankly, while I will blame the small dog owner for letting their dog be eaten in the above -- off the property incidents, like on walks, at the park, etc.; I do not want my dogs to attack another dog, not ever. This means I have to be proactive to keep that from happening. I do this by taking my dogs to classes during their first year until I feel they are reasonably reliable around other dogs in all situations. And so far (searching for wood to bang on), they have not cause injury to another person's dog. If I had a dog that I knew would, I would probably use the muzzle and prong collar. It is all about protecting my dog. If protecting my dog means protecting your dog from my dog, so be it.

[Jag]

I'm well aware of what happened. I read the other thread. Had the dog been on a prong and not a harness, the chances of the dog 'slipping away' out of control would have been much lower. I've NEVER had a dog get away from me on a prong. Ever. People can think whatever they wish. The dog thinks how a dog thinks. I am all pro-muzzle when you've got a dog aggressive dog or a human aggressive dog. Been there, done that. What happened was not a dog aggressive attack. It was prey. The same way the dog would go after a rabbit or any other small furry thing. Yes, you can muzzle the dog for being a dog. However, IMO, it's not needed. Training, prong collar, stick. Control. Leadership. With those things, you can stop and drop a dog no matter what is going on. A prong collar on my bitch saved the woman's life when she attacked her. (This was her first attack) If you want every single person who sees your dog to think you've got a vicious dog, then put a muzzle on it. It's appropriate for vicious dogs. However, this isn't (from what I've been reading anyway) a vicious dog. It's a dog that went into prey drive and the handler didn't have control because the proper tools weren't there and the training wasn't there. Agree, disagree... all is fine.

[myshepharley]

Everyone keeps saying his yard, my yard. Does it really matter? What matters is it happened. It could of been in the field bordering their yard. Bottom line is the dog started running out, harley got away from me and went after him. I should of been on guard and prepared. I wasn't and now a dog is dead. The yard is right up against the road, no sidewalk, no nothing. Makes no difference. It still happened. I was in the wrong and now need to do whatever it takes to prevent it from happening again whether I choose to use a muzzle or not. People can tell me what to do, give advice, etc. But I have to choose what I listen to and don't.

[Mary Beth]

Wow, you were brave to walk Harley around the neighborhood - good for you. The walk in the park, and the squirrel practice - you've both are making such progress and so fast!

[Jax08]

Personally, I would not take any chances. It's not just about protecting small dogs now, it's about protecting Harley. If that meant training her to wear a basket muzzle to reduce the chance of injury while I worked on the prey drive, or whatever drive it was that sent her after the little dog, then I would do it. I've lived with an HA dog for years. You do what you have to do to protect your dog.

I would put a prong collar on but keep in mind that prong collars will ramp a dog's drive up. At least that would give me some measure of control. I would get a trainer to help with behavior modifications. I would contact Lou Castle about his "critter" training with an e-collar. And I would put a muzzle on him.

[Blanketback]

It is your decision to make, but just remember that you're making the decision for Harley, not for yourself.

[Zookeep]

I would go with the muzzle. As someone in another thread once said, stop worrying about what other people think and worry about your dog. What is the downside of the muzzle? People might think your dog is aggressive. So what? If it keeps your dog from attacking another dog, and having to put your dog down, then you have saved your dog's life.

I have had both dog aggressive and human aggressive dogs. The trainers had me work on desensitizing the dogs by exposing them at a distance to the thing they reacted to (dogs or children). This works great in the classroom. In the real world, while you are 30 feet away from the little dog feeding your dog treats, someone comes up behind you with a dog on a flexi leash and says "is your dog friendly".

Once you are sure your training is working, you can go without the muzzle.