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I am so....... i dont even know

19K views 156 replies 48 participants last post by  codmaster 
#1 ·
Took kids for a walk, nothing unusual. We go out this one road in a farmland area. Walk it 3-4 times weekly for years. Had Harley along. The one house has two little dogs that are always outside. They wear collars for underground fence. They always come running out barking. Harley always just walks by no problem. One is a little yorkie and the other is a poodle mix. Well today was a totally different story. Dogs come out barking and harley broke free from me. He charged to the yorkie, grabbed it and shook, and shook that poor dog like a ragdoll. It was yelping and he kept shaking it. I am running to him, saying no, to drop it yelling his name. I got him off and had my daughter take him home. Looked at the yorkie and almost fell over. He had ripped the stomach all apart and everything was hanging out. I scooped him up, got towels from the neighbor and just held him. The owners were away for weekend and on way home. So I sat there bawling holding this poor little guy while he was dying in my arms. I am so heartbroken, confused, angry and nauseaous. What happened? What did I do wrong? The owners were very calm and I kept telling them how sorry I was. Gave them my name and number so they can decide what they are going to do. They even know me from walking by all the time. Harley has never done this before. We have had issues with him nipping at kids, which I worked on and he is doing better at that. This is totally a horrible shock. I feel so horrible. Do I need to start thinking about a new home? That is if they don't report it to AC, which if it were me, I would. I love my boy more than anything but I can't have this behavior. What do I do??
 
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#85 ·
Train a reliable "out" or "leave it!"

The late Barker Sisters & I were walking when a moppet came charging up barking, followed by the robed & slippered owner. BTY handled him like a squeeky toy. Fortunately she knew "leave it!" Once I uttered those words she released him, unharmed. The owner called her dog stupid and was not upset with me or my dogs. Hopefully she reevaluated going out with her dog off lead in her front yard with her in flip flops and robe.

It did worry me that we would have an incident report filed although we were a house away and in the road and everyone was on lead except for me.


Hopefully, the yorkie house will reevaluate handling their pups, too. Leads do break, training often lacks perfection and crap happens. I am sorry all around for this.
 
#86 ·
Took kids for a walk, nothing unusual. We go out this one road in a farmland area. Walk it 3-4 times weekly for years. Had Harley along. The one house has two little dogs that are always outside. They wear collars for underground fence. They always come running out barking. Harley always just walks by no problem. One is a little yorkie and the other is a poodle mix. Well today was a totally different story. Dogs come out barking and harley broke free from me. He charged to the yorkie, grabbed it and shook, and shook that poor dog like a ragdoll. It was yelping and he kept shaking it. I am running to him, saying no, to drop it yelling his name. I got him off and had my daughter take him home. Looked at the yorkie and almost fell over. He had ripped the stomach all apart and everything was hanging out. I scooped him up, got towels from the neighbor and just held him. The owners were away for weekend and on way home. So I sat there bawling holding this poor little guy while he was dying in my arms. I am so heartbroken, confused, angry and nauseaous. What happened? What did I do wrong? The owners were very calm and I kept telling them how sorry I was. Gave them my name and number so they can decide what they are going to do. They even know me from walking by all the time. Harley has never done this before. We have had issues with him nipping at kids, which I worked on and he is doing better at that. This is totally a horrible shock. I feel so horrible. Do I need to start thinking about a new home? That is if they don't report it to AC, which if it were me, I would. I love my boy more than anything but I can't have this behavior. What do I do??
So these dogs were taunting your dog for quite a while, the owners away for the weekend, and the dogs out by themselves, with just an underground electronic fence? And please don't tell me say that you are at fault. Because honestly, I don't blame you or your dog.

Wow... just... wow... :help:
 
#88 ·
I just want to thank all of you for your advice, opinions and comments. It has helped me a great deal to handle this way differently then I would have. You guys are great
 
#90 · (Edited)
I have to disagree. If these were the same circumstances and the OP's dog was killed by another dog because she was gone for the weekend and left her dog outside in a yard with just an electric fence, all the while she knows that her dog charges at other dogs all the time, it would go the same way, IF not even worse than that.

Shows that you don't know this forum very well. Trust me, just because you are a member and own a GSD doesn't mean you get a free pass on stupidity. ;)
(You in general, just to clarify)
 
#91 ·
WHOA..WHO THE THE **** ARE YOU TO TELL ME I AM STUPID?..her dog killed another dog...You wanna live with that? No freaking way...My dog gets harassed every day but my neighbors Maltese yapping dogs...It is my job tho keep HER dogs safe...jan
 
#93 ·
Let's just hope you never have this happen to you. I think you're being way too harsh on the OP. She admitted it was an accident. And guess what, accidents happen to everyone. You could be in this same situation some day (and don't say it will never happen cause it COULD).
No reason to blast the OP the way you did.
 
#92 ·
I think we all got the point and we all have our opinions..

This was a tragic accident I'm sure the OP has learned from and will do everything in her power to not repeat.

With that, let's stop the name calling ok?
 
#94 · (Edited)
Trying to be helpful. We need to move ON!

I train an emergency down with my dogs because they are offlead cadaver dogs and loose dogs etc are just part of the package. If you train it enough you WILL automatically use it when you need it without thinking.

When I was at our seminar two weeks ago, we spent the whole day working on boats at the lake. After I put Beau up I saw this blur moving at high speed across the parking lot towards the lake. People were throwing balls in the water. He is a high drive working dog. I yelled "DOWN" and it was like his legs went out from under him and hit hit the deck. I did not have a leash, so I went up to him, heeled him back to my truck and he shared my banana for being such a good boy. When I got back to the truck I saw where a peice of debris had kept the crate from latching properly. Honest mistake. Could have been tragic.

I am NOT, by the way, God's gift to dog trainers....I just work really hard at it. Anybody can do this.

If just took a lot of consistency and training but I think the emergency down is the single most important command you can teach a dog. Practice practice practice - the command can be the first thing that goes into your head like "STOP" or whatever.
 
#96 ·
What a sad story :(

While it does sound like these were certainly less than stellar owners I don't think legally fault would be found with them. Their dogs were secured in their yard by an IF, it isn't illegal to keep dogs outdoors or use IF (in most places anyway). The other dog was running loose, went into the yard with these dogs and killed one of them. I think just about anywhere, the loose dog's owner would be 100% legally responsible for the incident. It has nothing to do with personal opinions on what is or is not responsible ownership. Dogs running at large are generally going to be at fault for any incidents where one dog is loose and the other is secured.

As to the whys, this article may help:

Dog play behavior and "predatory drift" | Gail Fisher, All Dogs Gym & Inn | Dog, Dogs,

I don't think your dog is necessarily dangerous because of this incident. I do think if you are going to continue walking him, you need to be 200% sure you can keep him under control no matter what. Maybe a Gentle Leader, properly conditioned would be a good option with a second leash attached to a secure collar or harness? And a can of Citronella animal deterrent spray to help ward off dogs approaching your's.
 
#99 ·
Not sure exactly what you mean but my dog was not running loose everywhere. He was on his harness and leash. Somehow my fault he got free and went in their yard.
 
#101 ·
jang I don't think anyone here said that little yorkie deserved to die and I don't think anyone "thinks" it either, despite the owners being not so stellar.

If this was a rabbit or a cat, the same thing probably would have happened.

Accidents happen, and this one was tragic, but it was an accident, I don't think Harley is getting a free pass, nor the OP, it was an accident
 
#106 ·
If he were my dog, I would use a prong and have the leash also attached to a slip collar for backup. I understand the dog is trained and well behaved on a harness but you (OP) also said you couldn't get his focus. A good correction on a prong will do that. No it's not real nice but it's better than the dog pulling free. The dog does not sound like a softie so a prong should not bother him if he really is trained to walk nice, but it will give you the control you need and the ability to make paying attention to you non-negotiable.
 
#123 ·
I keep my dogs inside because they want to be with me. And I won't apologize for it. I don't have dogs because I want a kennel in my back yard....I have them because they are companions. If I'm outside so are they.
 
#125 ·
I keep my dogs inside because they want to be with me. And I won't apologize for it. I don't have dogs because I want a kennel in my back yard....I have them because they are companions. If I'm outside so are they.
Double and triple thumbs up.

I realize that "list" of "what-ifs" was meant as sarcasm, but there are plenty of *too* likely possibilities there for me and my dogs. You want to take those risks? Go right ahead, but get off your high horse for those of us who do not want to, nor want our dogs away from us. :(:mad:
 
#124 ·
How awful for all involved. To the op-accidents happen. Just the other day I was walking my gsd on a long line. Another dog jumped out from the woods. Stella started to run to it and the leash broke! Fortunately both dogs just had a staring contest and Stella did finally come when I called. But the other dog was a big schnauzer. What would have happened if it was a little yorkie and it ran? Don't beat yourself or your dog up. Learn from this and move on.
 
#130 ·
Just wondering what direction this thread would have gone, if the title was " German Shepherd Protects me from charging vicious Possum"?

Have we decided that a dog has the ability to differentiate one small animal from the other?

Did Harley know that there was in invisible fence?

In one breath, we talk about prey drive, and how wonderful it is. In another breath, we condemn for using that prey drive.

I don't think the GSD did anything wrong.

Owner maybe should have had more control of Yorkie
Owner should have had more control of Harley.
 
#132 ·
No harley couldn't of known there was an efence. Yes I should of had more control. Why is it that I can not see it as " he did nothing wrong"? I just can't let go of that scene.
 
#133 ·
It was the viciousness of the attack I would think, that is at issue.
I posted at the beginning of your thread, it is in my thoughts often, this same scenario. My females would have done the same thing, I'm afraid. My neighborhood has dogs that would set them up to fail so we just stick to the trails behind my house.
Nothing we can say will take that ugly memory away, unfortunately.
 
#137 ·
Good post sunflowers....dogs are animals in spite of how we view them and to see them any other way is not always heualthy for the breed or in some cases owners.
Agreed. Very good post. Been going on about humanization of dogs for decades. It is what it is and what we make it to be.
There is nothing wrong with loving your "furry kids" as long as you still remember and know what powerful predators they are. Dogs are predators. Cats are Predators. With all the cutifying of animals, that knowledge has gone down the drain and some people even seem to forget how dangerous bears and wild cats are in zoo's and get to close to take that perfect picture or even pet them.
 
#141 ·
Once again, thank you to everyone. I was almost ready to give up because I didn't think I could take a chance of going thru this again. But everytime I look into those dark beautiful eyes of his, I realizex that I can't gi e up. He means toooo much to me and I think it would devastate both of us. So let the retraining begin!!! Someone mentioned a prong collar. Is there a specific one? He has always been a puller that's why I use the harness bacause he does well with that. But I am open to any suggestions. Also, if the AC was going to show up, what is the time frame for that? So far, nothing. Harley and I appreciate all of you.
 
#146 ·
I used to use a no pull harness. It helped but did nothing to control Stella's head. I have a prong now and it has been wonderful. I am more on control of my dog and my arms stay in their sockets. My trainer gave it to me. It seemed so tight to me but trainer said this is how it should be. So if u do get a prong make sure it is sized correctly and u learn how to use it. I would be interested on the prong someone mentioned earlier.
 
#147 ·
I always use at least a 8' lead. I walk my dog on my left. I take the excess lead and loop it in my right hand. Not tight around my hand, but in loops and hold the lead. Take my left hand and hold the lead the controls the dog, palm facing behind me.

If I allow the dog to forge ahead of me, I provide a little more lead, letting it slide through my left hand and providing one loop from my right. If I need to take up extra lead I cross my right hand in front of me (towards my left), grasping the lead in front of me and create another loop for my right hand.

If the dog should happen to dart from me, because I've got my palm facing behind me, the lead isn't going to jerk out of my fingers. But, if it does, I still have the lead in my right hand. So if needed I can feed out a little more lead (to avoid being jerked off my feet) and/or supply a sharp correction to the dog.

I never use a short lead. A habit I've gotten into due to years of horse ownership.
 
#148 ·
With a flat collar, this method did not work for me. Sometimes I managed to keep hold of the leash, but he has pulled me completely off of my feet and dragged me behind him. Let me say that my dog is about 40lbs. I weigh around 140lbs, am prepared for the lunging because we are at class and I know what's coming, and still he can do this if I hold the leash this way. I hate to think what he could do if weighed twice as much, which many GSDs do. Any correction with a flat collar is nothing to him and any pulling just ramps him up more. I ended up having him wear a harness that I could grab and lift him off the ground if I needed to. That worked, but the prong collar is much easier on us both, I think.

With a prong collar, this method works perfectly. He does occasionally need me to give a strong correction with it when he's lost in either play or prey drive, but usually he self-corrects when he feels it start to tighten because he's close to the limit of the slack.
 
#151 ·
since you know the dogs bark and lunge and
are only semi protected by an e-fence why
walk pass them even if you're on the other
side of the street?

if the ankle nippers were the side of a German
Shepherd would you continually walk pass them?

did your dog ever get away from you when the owners
of the little dogs were home?
 
#153 ·
Timeframe for the AC officer to show up. Well, based on my experience - the incident happened on Monday, the sheriff called me the next morning. Of course - the little dog's owner had filed a complaint. In your case,if the owners haven't filed a complaint and no humans were attacked (see - it could have been much worse), maybe they won't. But what was suggested to me by a co-worker when my Husky (of all dogs ) got a complaint for barking and I was worried, was to call or go down to the AC office as I did have a right to see the complaint and know the status. So rather than worry and picture the worse, you may want to do the same. You may be told it is a civil matter and no crime was committed but the AC have to investigate if there is a complaint. It don't know how it would work in your state.
On to retraining, since I've been there, I suggest you hold off on the prong collar and rethink your walking strategy. You and your dog are both under stress (which he is picking up from you - he probably can't understand why you are upset, but still senses that you are, and that upsets him). Take him in quiet places, even if you have to get up extra early. Hold the leash as Lilie suggested. Keep your distance from other dogs. Have him concentrate on you. I decided to try the harness first but with a training method which keeps you dog focused on you.(dogwalkinsync.com - there's a video on the website that explains the training method). When your dog is focused on you, he can't get into such unpleasant situations. When you see another dog, sharply turn, curve, go in different directions, with the leash held properly - he will have no choice but to follow and concentrate on you. Reward him for following you. Think positive - walking together side by side. And be sure to leave time for tug - I use 2 tugs attached to leashes. My dog waits on the down/stay while I go out about 20 ft. (in my fenced in backyard) -when I lower my hand - he dashes out to attack the tug I have scooted on the ground - he grabs it - I tug, then I drop it and scoot the other one (you'll find it's a great release for your stress and you dog's) - have a good game - then you give up - slink away like you're defeated - turn and praise him for being the winner. When he brings the tugs to you - reward and praise him. You're letting him satisfy his prey drive in a safe manner.
 
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