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I am so....... i dont even know

19K views 156 replies 48 participants last post by  codmaster 
#1 ·
Took kids for a walk, nothing unusual. We go out this one road in a farmland area. Walk it 3-4 times weekly for years. Had Harley along. The one house has two little dogs that are always outside. They wear collars for underground fence. They always come running out barking. Harley always just walks by no problem. One is a little yorkie and the other is a poodle mix. Well today was a totally different story. Dogs come out barking and harley broke free from me. He charged to the yorkie, grabbed it and shook, and shook that poor dog like a ragdoll. It was yelping and he kept shaking it. I am running to him, saying no, to drop it yelling his name. I got him off and had my daughter take him home. Looked at the yorkie and almost fell over. He had ripped the stomach all apart and everything was hanging out. I scooped him up, got towels from the neighbor and just held him. The owners were away for weekend and on way home. So I sat there bawling holding this poor little guy while he was dying in my arms. I am so heartbroken, confused, angry and nauseaous. What happened? What did I do wrong? The owners were very calm and I kept telling them how sorry I was. Gave them my name and number so they can decide what they are going to do. They even know me from walking by all the time. Harley has never done this before. We have had issues with him nipping at kids, which I worked on and he is doing better at that. This is totally a horrible shock. I feel so horrible. Do I need to start thinking about a new home? That is if they don't report it to AC, which if it were me, I would. I love my boy more than anything but I can't have this behavior. What do I do??
 
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#38 ·
I can't even imagine what you are going through. I hope things work out. I agree that they should never have left dogs unattended with the efence and that size dog could easily fall prey to birds of prey as well as coyotes etc.........But I also know you are still responsible since your dog went on their property and attacked the dog. It is very clear you want to do the right thing and are torn up about all this.
 
#40 ·
I agree...what can you really do about prey drive other than try to not let your dog get away from you and maybe up the training for better recall in emergencies? If you have homeowner's insurance, they would pay in a lawsuit (provided maybe they know you have the dog). Talking to an attorney is the best thing you can do. Some people would claim the dog was worth well over what it actually is. Just because it was used for breeding doesn't mean it's actually worth more. It's too bad this happened, but the owners of those dogs bear some of the responsibility. I've never liked invisible fences for many reasons...this is one of them. Anything could have gotten that dog left out like that. :(
 
#41 ·
First of all, this was a very sad and traumatizing ordeal that you went through. I do not feel that you should be blamed because you didn't prepare for a freak accident to happen that day. I do agree with the muzzling and more training, though. I'm sure that you're feeling horrible enough about what happened. I wouldn't rehome Harley...with the necessary precautions, this will never happen again. I'm so sorry that you have to go through all this....it's really heartbreaking.
 
#42 ·
One thing to consider - where did the grabbing take place? Did your dog go onto their property or did their dog rush out onto a public street or sidewalk? Did their dog come running at you or did your dog go running after their dog?

Might make a BIG difference in your dogs life!

I don't have any clue of course but we have had little dogs come running at us (male 5yo GSD) and start barking and circling us when we are on a walk.
 
#48 ·
I agree with Carmen ^^ if someone did that here, they'd be arrested for neglect.

You can't just leave your dogs loose outside and go off for the weekend:( I'm surprised no one had stolen them or otherwise before this
 
#50 ·
I stopped in this morning. Apparently the yorkie didn't die, when we thought. She said he was still breathing faintly. After an hour they took him to vet where he bit their two children. They PTS. So they are rabie testing him and she asked me to pay the bill. Said they don't blame Harley. They know how the yorkie was with running out barking and since they weren't home, he was probably more mouthy. Stated that a year ago they had one that got caught under garage door and suffocated??? That made me feel alittle weird.
 
#52 ·
omg:( I can't believe they waited an HOUR to take the poor thing to the vet? and another suffocated?? another OMG.


Sounds like this yorkie may not have been up todate on his rabies if they are testing for that???


Also sounds like they are ok with what happened, and hopefully paying the vet bill will be the end of it..



I hope Harley is up to date on his rabies (I'm sure he is),,you might want to find out from their vet if the yorkie was up to date on rabies and what that outcome is:(

and I rather agree with Michelle, I would not pay for rabies testing on the yorkie, that's their call .
 
#54 ·
I hope these owners don't get anymore dogs. They clearly neglected the ones they had and that yorkie had to pay for it. They may be fined if the dog wasn't UTD on vaxing....wonder if AC will pay them a call to make sure the other dogs are legal. And if they are breeding, are they reporting the income? They may just want this to quietly be settled.
 
#60 ·
That's what I saw too. She needs to read that and review with a lawyer. I certainly would not pay for rabies testing. But then maybe if the whole bill gets paid they will just go away and the OP is off free. HOwever, since the dog was taken into a vet, it might all be out of their hands. The vet may have to report the original fight since the yorkie died.

btw....LAWYER CONSULTS ARE USUALLY FREE!!!!
 
#59 ·
That's terrible and I'm upset that you had to witness your companion do such a thing. But you're being much to hard on yourself, I do think the majority of the blame goes on the owner of the Yorkie, who by the sound of it are not very good dog owners anyway... If it was not your dog, it could have been a coyote, fox, rabid raccoon, or something even worse in other areas of the world. I have always had the impression that electric fences are not safe and should be used just like everything else with your dog - under supervision, especially in the front of a house. No care on the part of the Yorkie owner, if they had done their part this would never have happened. Personally, I have a fenced dog run in my backyard, which itself is fenced-in and would never do anything less, and still feel iffy about leaving it open to the house during the day.
 
#61 ·
Hm if they are rabies testing the Yorkie you can probably expect a visit from AC to make sure you and your dog are OK.

I might offer to pay for the PTS fee but not the rabies stuff, that implies some negligence on their part. Usually if a dog is vaccinated and licensed they don't have to test, they just observe the other animals/people that came into contact. I was accidentally "bitten" by one of my own dogs recently (separated a dog/dog scuffle and he accidentally got my hand). Because all my dogs are UTD on rabies vax, the AC officer just came over to my house twice, 10 days apart, to verify that me and all my dogs were alive. There was no punishment or testing.
 
#71 ·
Hm if they are rabies testing the Yorkie you can probably expect a visit from AC to make sure you and your dog are OK.

I might offer to pay for the PTS fee but not the rabies stuff, that implies some negligence on their part. Usually if a dog is vaccinated and licensed they don't have to test, they just observe the other animals/people that came into contact. I was accidentally "bitten" by one of my own dogs recently (separated a dog/dog scuffle and he accidentally got my hand). Because all my dogs are UTD on rabies vax, the AC officer just came over to my house twice, 10 days apart, to verify that me and all my dogs were alive. There was no punishment or testing.
Why did you get visited by an AC? Did you need to go see a DR. who had to report it?


For the OP, I would certainly express a great deal of sympathy to the other owner, BUT it sounds like the fault was shared - if their dog was leashed or controlled then the OP's dog would never had gotten close to it!

Sounds like a simple dog fight - we shouldn't automatically assign totasl blame to the winner!
 
#64 ·
Look at all the posts in all the threads where the dogs have gone after squirrels and rabbits... Aside from the fact that those are wildlife and Harley went after someone's pet, I don't see any difference. Prey drive is what it is, it isn't malicious intent. Please don't be so hard on either one of you. Hugs.
 
#67 ·
I am trying so hard to understand that. I just keep seeing it as, my dog killed another dog. I don't want to feel that way because I don't want to betray him or our super tight bond. How do I get past this whole ordeal??
 
#65 ·
I can't believe they let that poor dog suffer for an hour, that is animal cruelty in my eyes.

I would pay for the euth, but not rabies testing. Their dog should be UTD on it's vaccines, which is not your responsibility. I also agree that charging & barking is 'provocation' and that the owners are utterly negligent.

I'm so sorry you're going through this, you must feel sick over it.

((hugs))
 
#66 ·
I am shocked at how this has turned around to blame the owners of the dead dog! It doesn't matter whether these dogs are outside all the time or that the owners left for the weekend or anything else they may have done with their dogs in the past. It also doesn't matter whether you think invisible fences are safe or not. What does matter is whether or not the attack happened on their property or out on the street.

If this happened on their property, it is 100% your fault. If it happened off their property and your dog had gotten away from you, it is both your faulty. If this happened off their property and you had held on to your dogs, you wouldn't be at fault.

As for the bites at the vet, you are still partly liable for that because the dog wouldn't have been there in the first place without the attack. The vet and the owner are also liable for that one.

You should definitely pay for the euthansia, but there is no charge for rabies testing. With the rabies testing, the health department is now involved so animal control won't be far behind. You might have to pay part of any medical costs involved to the children for their bites, but not all of it.

You should be hard on yourself. Your dog is now probably going to be declared dangerous because you said you held on tight to him yet were unable to hold the leash. This is no ones fault but yours.
 
#68 ·
Thank you so much for that. Just what I needed to hear. I am not blaming anyone but myself. I do feel horrible. These people are giving their opinion on the situation which does not change how I FEEL. I don't feel I should pay for any rabies test because I wouldn't of had my children in there with me. That was no place for them considering they are all under 7 years of age. That was irresponsible IMO. I take full responsibility for the dog attack. He had been charging and barking at harley for five years. Yesterday was a horrible freak accident that I have to live with.
 
#69 ·
Harley's been walking past that house hundreds of times without incident. How the heck were you to know that would happen? Don't let other people make you feel worse. There's a new dog park thread where the exact same thing just happened. These things *do* happen.

I heard screaming coming from the swampy area, and I thought I could save an animal from some horrible situation. When I found out where the noise was coming from, it was a frog lodged halfway down a snake's mouth. I felt bad, but what am I going to do? This is survival for the snake, it has to eat too. I keep pet rats, but some of them would have also met this fate. Mother Nature seems cruel, but it's not up to us to try to make sense of things.
 
#70 ·
It's all well and good to blame the owner, and of course there is some blame there, but havent we all been in a situation that we just never expected, or things just didn't go the way we had trained for? Our dogs have minds of their own and a natural instinct that drives them. We can train, train, train but in the end if that natural instinct kicks in we can be caught off guard.

Our trainer told us a story of a Doberman he had. He won obedience titles with the dog, and the stories he tells-it's hard to believe the dog was a dog because they were so in tune with each other. One day he had the dog of leash watching it chase a rabbit. There was a road nearby and our trainer started to call the dog back, but the dog only saw the rabbit. Long story short, the Doberman that was so tight with his handler and won OB comps got run over by a car. He thought the dogs recall was bomb proof, but clearly it wasn't rabbit proof. This is someone who, at that point, had been training as competing for years (10 or so I believe).



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#73 ·
It's a horrible situation but I believe the blame is 50/50 between both owners

I personally would get a lawyer right away and follow their advice. If it means paying the cost to euthanize the yorkie and/or a replacement dog then so be it. But I wouldn't pay a penny without legal council to make sure everything is recorded officially
 
#75 ·
Yes I have to agree on Elaine's post and myshepharley's response.

Where I would not beat myself up is looking inside that if you walked past this house for years and did not see this coming and it was a random - finally something about the yorkie triggered the dog - then you have to take your responsibility (it still rests partially on you - too bad the yorkie was not in the street) and act accordingly. But dogs are still animals and there is always *some* degree of unpredicability. Accidents DO happen through a combinaiton of "dog reacted" "I lost control" and you did the most responsible thing at the time (more than the poor dog's owners did).

If there were warning signs (was/is the nipping at kids a prey thing or a human thing-human agression is not the same as animal agression or even prey) I would look at yourself - what were you doing to fix it and be glad this was not a small running squealing child. The prey chasing and biting CAN be controlled but I honestly would be working with a professional on that to make sure...and maybe even get an honest assessment given the circumstances.
 
#78 ·
I think the OP feels bad enough but I DO think the yorkie owners are partially to blame, who the heck leaves their tiny dogs OUTSIDE, no supervision, and goes off for the weekend?

Who waits an hour before taking their 'beloved' pet to the vet after such a horrific incident?

Who lets their kids under 7 years of age near a dog that is obviously in alot of pain (and we all know dogs can bite out of pain) and they get bit?

If this yorkie was up to date on it's shots it wouldn't be needing a rabies test.

I am certainly not saying the yorkie owners are to blame, but I think there's some blame to be spread around.
 
#80 ·
I think the OP feels bad enough but I DO think the yorkie owners are partially to blame, who the heck leaves their tiny dogs OUTSIDE, no supervision, and goes off for the weekend?

Who waits an hour before taking their 'beloved' pet to the vet after such a horrific incident?

Who lets their kids under 7 years of age near a dog that is obviously in alot of pain (and we all know dogs can bite out of pain) and they get bit?

If this yorkie was up to date on it's shots it wouldn't be needing a rabies test.

I am certainly not saying the yorkie owners are to blame, but I think there's some blame to be spread around.
This, I agree with. What if they hadn't been tiny dogs? What if they bred GSD? Then what would the discussion look like? Who's responsibility would it be for a dead or injured GSD that was acting on its instinct, from both sides? I think the "blame" word is going around too much, no party should be "blamed" but they each do hold their own responsibility as part of society and dog owners.

I believe everything that has needed to be said has been said, we have most, if not all, sides of the argument here, and everyone is entitled to what they think, if you judge that one party is to "blame" then so be it, same goes vice versa or split "blame".
Don't be shocked at other people's feelings on the subject. Not everyone thinks alike, that is what makes us human, after all. Not even written law is clearly defined throughout the world.
 
#79 ·
Legally, the OP's dog got away from her and entered the other persons property and essentially killed it. Unless there is a law there about leaving ones dogs alone, the dog WAS secured via it's e-fence, so they were legally in the clear. They could have left for an errand for a half hour, been away at work for the day, or gone for a week. It makes no difference in that the OP's dog was still the one that entered the deceased dogs yard and attacked it.

Do they sound like great owners - no. But in the eyes of the law, the owner of the deceased dog is not in the wrong, so no, I don't agree that blame should be shared.

OP stated they knew these dogs charged the e-fence, and crossed to the other side and tightened up the hold on the leash. If OP can't control the dog to keep it from going after something, then OP shouldn't be walking the dog in public. the dog and owner need to go to training classes with a trainer who knows how to teach you to control a big strong dog. I have never once, even as a child, had one of my GSD's get away from me. If OP needs a training tool such as a prong collar to properly correct the dog when it pulls, then they need to attend classes and learn how to control the dog with the training aid properly.
 
#81 ·
I don't need a training class on how to use a leash. I use a harness, and always am able to keep him under control. It was a freak accident and sometimes they happen. I don't know what went wrong yesterday. I had it tight but something happened. Sorry I am not a perfect dog owner like yourself. Wish we were all perfect but things happen. I can only learn from this tragedy and try to move on.
 
#82 ·
I think that is the point. Move forward. Learn from mistakes. Keep an eye on the rear view mirror.

I would have an emergency stop/down and bombproof it. Consider the prong.

I will admit to having a scare or two over the years and have learned from some mistakes (none this bad but it could have been).
 
#83 ·
I think that is the point. Move forward. Learn from mistakes. Keep an eye on the rear view mirror.

I would have an emergency stop/down and bombproof it. Consider the prong.

I will admit to having a scare or two over the years and have learned from some mistakes (none this bad but it could have been).
This.

Prong is very helpful. One private session with a trainer would be great.

We also did a "down/stay" only clinic with our trainer. Molly is not perfect with it, but when you think things might get out of control, sometimes you panic and forget what to do, well all I have to do is remember to say "down" it makes things a lot easier.
 
#84 ·
Not saying I couldn't use training. I tried a prong, not the metal, it was like a hard plastic. He still pulled. The harness works well for him. I have had him at parks, trails, tubing, my daughter's soccer practice and he always behaves. I have gotten compliments on his behavior. I just never have been in this situation with him where I couldn't keep his attention. I do neex to work on his recall and I'm sure other things. Moving forward I know to be 100% prepared to the best of my ability. Just was alittle edgy that someone tells me I shouldn't be out in public with my dog.
 
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