In dire need of advice, please

[blackshep]

Any correlation between the timing of this behaviour and the start of the pain meds?

I know when you sedate a horse, some become highly aggressive, the opposite reaction of what you want.

I'm wondering if the meds are making him groggy or foggy, and is therefore acting highly defensive because he knows he's not quite right?

I also think neurological. I really hope you can get this sorted out, you must be so stressed!

((hugs))

ETA: accordng to Wiki:

One side effect of Carprofen and Etodolac: Change in behavior (such as decreased or increased activity level, seizure or aggression)

[Sorashell]

Wow! That report sounded right on the money! I have no advice, just support and hoping its something fixable.

[Sevastra]

Thank you everyone for your replies. I'm going to be checking out everything everyone suggested. Sorry i haven't been on much, its been crazy

To answer some questions:
I haven't let Kaiser get away with anything from when he was a pup to the age he is now. At times, honestly, I felt like I was being a little too hard on him. Especially teaching him not to jump on people, because i knew he was going to be a pretty large dog etc etc.
The first time he lunged at my mother, I stood up and in a stern voice i said his name and NO!. I took him by the collar off of her, made him sit down. And i removed him and put him in a room, closed the door and left him there for maybe 2 minutes. He was crying in there as soon as i closed the door. When i opened it again, i didn't let him out, i told him to sit and to stay. And walked away, then called him to come. Maybe that wasn't the right way to handle the situation but i wanted i wanted to remove him from possibly another confrontation and also to check my mother to make sure she was okay.

I have spoken with his vet several times. He gave me some names of some trainers. I called two of them. One didn't really want to work with me and the other after talking to him for maybe 30 seconds about Kaiser, he told me to put down my dog and that he was sorry he couldn't help me. It pissed me off...i'm sort of a laid back person, but that really bugged me. I've called so many people in the past few days. I have finally found someone who is willing to meet with me and work with me either for placement, or for evaluating him and training him. He works with aggressive pit bulls and the Boston k9 unit. It was the first person i spoke with in the past days that didn't tell me to just put him down. He is going to bring me to his vet, which is a low cost, because he is part of a rescue, and they are going to do blood work on him and everything. So...I'm hopeful.

I have also told my mother to stop acting fearful of him, which i know is hard, but she would shy away from him or run away over the baby gate i have up if he would bark or growl at her, she is now standing her ground to him, and he MORE TIMES THAN NOT is backing down. We have only had one other pretty bad event with him, which was yesterday. My mother was sitting in a chair and she went to get up, and he completely lost his mind, and snarled and growled barked, was just...nutty. I was in another room. My father got to him before i could, and removed him from the situation. That's really all i can think to do with him some people have told me that removing him he may associate that person with being locked away....But the thing is, he is SO much better when i am in the house alone, his body language is better, he's playful. I'm in no way suggesting that my mother is his only issue. But he does seem to bully her a lot.

He has always gotten a lot of exercise, not excessively, but quite a bit. But the past 2 weeks, he hadn't, which might have aggravated his problems. He had pano really bad this last time, the worst it had been. He is completely off the meds for that now.

I did notice something the other night, since its getting darker out sooner. I walked him down the street before i put him in his crate for the night. And everything was freaking him out, we went the same way we always do at that time of night, and signs, sticks, were freaking him out...his hair would go up he would bark and whine. I'm wondering if he has some bad night vision or something. Which again might be one issue. Because he seems to be worse at night.

I am planning to get him neutered , ( not thinking that it will solve his problems, but even if it helps a hair, i will be happy) which the guy i am going to be working with is going to help me do that through his rescue. Because I just spent over 700 dollars on a surgery for him because he ate a needle that my mother uses to do quilts...so money is tight right now.

I have spoken with his breeders, and they done a lot to help me out with everything as well. I think someone asked me for his papers, and i don't have any. Kaisers father had papers, his mother did not. I was just looking for a dog, a family dog ...i wasn't concerned with papers.

Since his pano has cleared up, i am running him again, and letting him play in the yard more. Taking him on his normal walks.

Tonight kaiser was really doing well. I was in the back tv room, and he was laying by my feet, he would bark if he heard someone out in the main living room, like move in the chair, or close the recliner, but he wouldn't charge them.

He's been eating well too. because for 3 days he wouldn't touch his food.

[Jag]

Originally Posted by Sevastra

Thank you everyone for your replies. I'm going to be checking out everything everyone suggested. Sorry i haven't been on much, its been crazy

To answer some questions:
I haven't let Kaiser get away with anything from when he was a pup to the age he is now. At times, honestly, I felt like I was being a little too hard on him. Especially teaching him not to jump on people, because i knew he was going to be a pretty large dog etc etc.
The first time he lunged at my mother, I stood up and in a stern voice i said his name and NO!. I took him by the collar off of her, made him sit down. And i removed him and put him in a room, closed the door and left him there for maybe 2 minutes. He was crying in there as soon as i closed the door. When i opened it again, i didn't let him out, i told him to sit and to stay. And walked away, then called him to come. Maybe that wasn't the right way to handle the situation but i wanted i wanted to remove him from possibly another confrontation and also to check my mother to make sure she was okay.

I have spoken with his vet several times. He gave me some names of some trainers. I called two of them. One didn't really want to work with me and the other after talking to him for maybe 30 seconds about Kaiser, he told me to put down my dog and that he was sorry he couldn't help me. It pissed me off...i'm sort of a laid back person, but that really bugged me. I've called so many people in the past few days. I have finally found someone who is willing to meet with me and work with me either for placement, or for evaluating him and training him. He works with aggressive pit bulls and the Boston k9 unit. It was the first person i spoke with in the past days that didn't tell me to just put him down. He is going to bring me to his vet, which is a low cost, because he is part of a rescue, and they are going to do blood work on him and everything. So...I'm hopeful.

I have also told my mother to stop acting fearful of him, which i know is hard, but she would shy away from him or run away over the baby gate i have up if he would bark or growl at her, she is now standing her ground to him, and he MORE TIMES THAN NOT is backing down. We have only had one other pretty bad event with him, which was yesterday. My mother was sitting in a chair and she went to get up, and he completely lost his mind, and snarled and growled barked, was just...nutty. I was in another room. My father got to him before i could, and removed him from the situation. That's really all i can think to do with him some people have told me that removing him he may associate that person with being locked away....But the thing is, he is SO much better when i am in the house alone, his body language is better, he's playful. I'm in no way suggesting that my mother is his only issue. But he does seem to bully her a lot.

He has always gotten a lot of exercise, not excessively, but quite a bit. But the past 2 weeks, he hadn't, which might have aggravated his problems. He had pano really bad this last time, the worst it had been. He is completely off the meds for that now.

I did notice something the other night, since its getting darker out sooner. I walked him down the street before i put him in his crate for the night. And everything was freaking him out, we went the same way we always do at that time of night, and signs, sticks, were freaking him out...his hair would go up he would bark and whine. I'm wondering if he has some bad night vision or something. Which again might be one issue. Because he seems to be worse at night.

I am planning to get him neutered , ( not thinking that it will solve his problems, but even if it helps a hair, i will be happy) which the guy i am going to be working with is going to help me do that through his rescue. Because I just spent over 700 dollars on a surgery for him because he ate a needle that my mother uses to do quilts...so money is tight right now.

I have spoken with his breeders, and they done a lot to help me out with everything as well. I think someone asked me for his papers, and i don't have any. Kaisers father had papers, his mother did not. I was just looking for a dog, a family dog ...i wasn't concerned with papers.

Since his pano has cleared up, i am running him again, and letting him play in the yard more. Taking him on his normal walks.

Tonight kaiser was really doing well. I was in the back tv room, and he was laying by my feet, he would bark if he heard someone out in the main living room, like move in the chair, or close the recliner, but he wouldn't charge them.

He's been eating well too. because for 3 days he wouldn't touch his food.

Thank you for coming back with this update! I'd suggest either using baby gates to restrict his movement in the house, or tether him to you, or use a basket muzzle until this is sorted out. My female attacked the elderly vet's wife when she was about a year old. No bark, no growl. Jumped up, grabbed her shirt and threw her to the ground in the blink of an eye. By the time I could react, she was just about an inch from the woman's throat as she was laying helpless on the ground. Bad things can happen VERY quickly. PLEASE protect your parents. Yes, they can sense fear and may bully those that are afraid. Especially if he knows he was able to chase her over the gate. I hope that the vet is able to find something wrong that can be treated. If this is all behavioral... I just don't know what to tell you. Nothing you want to hear, to be sure. With his aggression turning even to handler aggression.. and the sudden onset... I really, really hope that it's a medical issue. Is your breeder going to reimburse you for the cost of the dog? How soon are you able to get this dog in for the vet visit? Neutering won't be any cure. Been there, done that. I hope this trainer is able to do an intensive evaluation of your dog. I've been thinking of you, and hoping that everything works out. Please keep us updated. I'm so very sorry that things have gone this way. This is my favorite breed... but the shady breeders out there that create mental and behavioral messes anger me beyond all belief. Very few take responsibility for what they've created. It "seems" like it could well be a neurological or hormonal imbalance of some kind. The trainers who won't even eval your dog aren't worth your time. My guess is they figure he can't be 'fixed' or even managed and they don't want the liability. Good luck to you and your dog!

[harmony]

Originally Posted by Sevastra

My Dog kaiser is going to be 11 months old soon. He has suddenly developed an issue. I'm completely confused but it.

Sometimes when you go to pick something up off the floor, he lunges and bites at people. Or when someone moves while they are sitting down, or when they get up, he growls, sometimes lunges and bites. When people come into the room he sometimes charges them and jumps up and bites. I'm not sure if he's being dominate or resource guarding. Right now as i write this...he's laying on the floor, and ever so often staring down people and growling...

What do i do? How do i remedy this, I know i should talk to a trainer ..but up until that point, how should i deal with this??

He is vaccinated for rabies, right? What kind of med is he on? Never had a dog (or horse)act like that before, but maybe you have something different? PM me if you want.

[Mary Beth]

Thanks for the update. Don't be so hard on yourself - you have done everything you could with his training. I give you credit for hanging in there and to keep on looking and trying. Kaiser is lucky to have you. The rescue trainer you found sounds great. I can sure see progress now that Kaiser is getting his exercise and eating well. With what happened last night, it really seems like it could be thyroid. Like the post suggested, it has to be the full blood panel (T5 test), as the T3 won't catch it. The expense of the test would be worth it and if it is thyroid, the medication (a daily pill) is cheap. For your mom's safety, you may want to keep Kaiser with you on his leash, or in his crate, so he can't take advantage and lunge at her, until he has had further training and his medical issues are resolved. Good luck to you both, and please keep up posted on his progress.

[mebully21]

if the blood work comes back all fine and his thyroid is normal with no issues then its VERY possible he is just being a really really bratty hormonal dog, who is taking advantage of anyone who shows fear to him (like a bully at school, you show fear and the bully takes advantage and smashes your lunch every day and harasses you the minute you show you are afraid)
some dogs will take advantage of people who show fear, especially if they are insecure themselves... its a good possibility that he is just an insecure dog with weak nerves with alot of testosterone with having his balls still, so maybe neutering him will make him less of a bully per say....

you can also give him NO freedom. do NILIF Nothing in Life is Free with him entirely, no furniture, no beds, NOTHING.... he must EARN everything, from food to pets to walks to attention... some dogs get too big for their britches at a certain teenage age, and its very possible your dog is at that stage.... its possible he got too much freedom and too much doting on and now that he is in his bratty stage with the fact that he is intact he is acting like a fool.... its worth it to try, NILIF doesnt hurt anyone, it just brings the dog down a few notches to where they belong and how they should act...

[CeCe]

I'm so glad to hear that you found an experienced trainer to help you with Kaiser. Good luck and keep us updated.

[debbiebrown]

it sure does sound like your dog is insercure and fearful. and SO true they feed off anyone who shows fear around them.

i have a dog very similar, genetically he is just that way. its disapointing to get a dog like this and you have to think long and hard about commiting to working with them. it is a huge liability.

i also had my dogs thyroid checked, no such luck it would be a matter of giving him a pill and some maintenence training. his was fine.

took me a long time to find good trainers that had a perspective on this type of dog. i have been very dedicated to working with him constantly. Obedience training, his life style is black and white. he is fine with people as long as they don't show fear, i always instruct people what to do around them, and if i think someone isn't capable of interacting with him, i tell them to ignore him or put him away. he has come further than i ever thought possible, but will never be 100% and will always have to be watched. we do alot of exercises with him at training where i put him in a down stay and i walk away. then people will walk by him or pat him on the way by. in an obedience command he does well with that exercise. you just really need to find the right people and spend ALOT of time setting him up in different senarios. also, as with my dog, an activity like tracking can build his confidence and build your relationship with him as will working Obedience etc.

[Sevastra]

Originally Posted by mebully21

if the blood work comes back all fine and his thyroid is normal with no issues then its VERY possible he is just being a really really bratty hormonal dog, who is taking advantage of anyone who shows fear to him (like a bully at school, you show fear and the bully takes advantage and smashes your lunch every day and harasses you the minute you show you are afraid)
some dogs will take advantage of people who show fear, especially if they are insecure themselves... its a good possibility that he is just an insecure dog with weak nerves with alot of testosterone with having his balls still, so maybe neutering him will make him less of a bully per say....

you can also give him NO freedom. do NILIF Nothing in Life is Free with him entirely, no furniture, no beds, NOTHING.... he must EARN everything, from food to pets to walks to attention... some dogs get too big for their britches at a certain teenage age, and its very possible your dog is at that stage.... its possible he got too much freedom and too much doting on and now that he is in his bratty stage with the fact that he is intact he is acting like a fool.... its worth it to try, NILIF doesnt hurt anyone, it just brings the dog down a few notches to where they belong and how they should act...

Kaiser has never been allowed on the furniture, ever. I have noticed though he will jump up on my mother when she is sitting in the recliner, and when she tells him to get down he whines and barks, just refuses, i tell him to get down off of her normally i say , " kaiser, look at me" to get his attention from his ranting and then, 'Down" and he gets right off her. And from a pup til about maybe 20 days ago he was only allowed in the kitchen and the living room, because he was getting into to much stuff, and i wanted to keep an eye on him. Now that he is out of that stage, he doesn't chew up anything anymore, I've let him into the hallway to the back tv room computer room...but there's a gate up on my room, my parents room ,the cats eating area, and on the music room, those are still off limits. If i am in them he will sit by the door.

I've always made him sit, and waited til he was calm before i would pet him. Especially if i came home from being out. My father not so much,and my mother never has. We had a dog, a mix shepherd and lab, for 15 years and i think they kind of treat him the same way as Timba, he was such a sweet dog, wouldn't hurt a fly, best temperament, i think its hard for them to switch over to thinking this is a different dog, breed, temperament, etc etc.

He has stopped growling and coming at me. He's completely off his meds now, i see a difference. Even my mother commented today that he is not as touchy. Clearly, it's not a solved issue, like tonight i was in my room and he was laying in the hallway next to it, he wouldn't let my mother down the hallway, i had to come out. I'm not sure if he's guarding me, or just the space...I'm really not sure. Because when my mother coughs ( she has a cold) he will mostly growl at her, if i'm in the room. lol which doesn't make any sense to me.

He is being neutered, not as soon as i hoped because of the way the surgery schedule fell, but on oct 3rd he's going in. I'm a little nervous about coming home with him, because he doesn't;t seem to take any sort of pain well, he's a big baby, ha.

I should hear back from the trainer tomorrow.