German Shepherds Forum banner

I think many of you may be right about Kira's aggression tendency.

26K views 173 replies 45 participants last post by  onyx'girl 
#1 ·
I've been keeping a close eye on my Kira. She's been with all of us for almost a year, and I've come here for every little thing, and have gotten great answers.


I think I may not be reading this correctly, and may warrant a discussion.
Her actions are escalating.

A few days ago, I shrugged off Kira going bonkers at a Chihuahua that showed up at my house unattended. That may have been more a red flag than I realized.
I may have a developing issue that needs attention.

Today, I observed a few new bouts of "what may appear as aggression". I'm not sure what's she's doing. She's charging forward, with a loud bark, and stopping at the "victim", and doing nothing at that point, but a sniff and walk away.

1) My daughter's 18 yr old male friend comes up from the basement. Kira didn't know he was the house. As soon as she saw him, she barked, tail up and curled, and barked as she moved towards him. He's a dog owner, so he stood still. She stopped barking, sniffed and walked away.

2) Kira was sitting inside my home, laying on an ottoman that overlooks the front of my house. All was quiet. My 13 yr old daughter had a male friend with her in front of my house. I was also outside with my daughter and her friend. My daughter asked for a ride to the mall.
As soon as the male friend approached my truck, and opened the door to enter, Kira started going bonkers at the window.

3) 9pm tonight. I take my 8 yr old and 13 yr for ice cream. Kira comes with us.Upon returning, I pull into my driveway, and see my 18 yr old daughter at the top of my steps with a male friend. Kira literally chased him in the house. Barking and approaching. Knowing that Kira is not known to be aggressive, and witnessing today's behavior, I commanded a stop, and down. She obeyed, and just dropped. The boy walked past her, and nothing happened.

What's going on?
 
See less See more
#139 ·
Anthony, I tell my training clients that a smart breed is like having a child with ADHD. It takes much more input and work when you are raising them, but the rewards when you get to adulthood are worth it. Have you seen any of the interviews with Michael Phelps' mom or coaches? He was a total handful as a kid, but look where he ended up.
A lab or golden puppy may be much easier to raise, but you don't get the outcome of a GSD or a Mal.
 
#140 · (Edited)
We all face different demons
My critter is a couple of weeks behind Kira in age

As confident as they come. No issues with other dogs, people, anything. Nothing has rattled him.

However, left to his own devices.....even after being run to the point of dropping and training multiple times a day..... 5 minutes later he WILL amuse himself. I have started giving him 2x4s to drag around in the yard.In the house we are still under constant supervision.


GRRRR I had a great image of a destroyed aluminum broom and ripped up aluminum downspouts and photobucket is NOT cooperating.

 
#141 ·
Honestly, I think all those experienced people need to buck up and talk about their mishaps. All we hear are the golden and glorious stories that nothing ever happens. Seriously? I know you don't share the bad stuff, it's bad for business but it comes with the breed and business.

That's what I hate about that industry, they keep their mouth shut and make it seem as if they are all knowing, perfect and smell like roses. That isn't the case. Even though they may never talk about it and only talk about their successes and never mention anything bad that happens... let me use a german phrase: EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US COOKS WITH WATER!
Meaning, they go through the same things we do. Their experience makes it easier to manage a dog but when you deal with living creatures there is no such thing as routine. **** happens to all of us.

Bocron, I'm sure you've had your days where you thought "Please, let this week be over."
And I'm sure so has Carmspack... and every other experienced person on this forum.

Nobody is perfect!
 
#148 ·
Anthony you keep going back to Kira's world famous sire, her great pedigree, and "I obviously lack the knowledge and skills to raise a dog of this caliber."

Did you expect a dog that has a corona around her , a gift to dogdom barely touching the ground , people gasping and parting the way for you to pass.

She's a dog . Trying her best .

She's staying with you emotionally more than you are with her .

So she didn't meet your expectations . Does she deserve less? Absolutely not . Dogs are not accessories for our egos.

Make up your mind . Either committ to the dog or let her have a home where someone will.

She is a good dog at heart . She is fearful. Organize her world , which should not take much , so that she blossoms . This will take time , consistency, honest appreciation of her self.

I have to constantly test and cast a critical eye on my dogs, either the ones held back for service or the ones intended as breeding partners .
The worst person to fool is yourself .

I have resolved to not, never ever again , buy a dog from a person who does not themselves work dog. By that I mean a person has to have hands on experience not repeat what some broker in the chain of sales has told them . You don't do that , you can not evaluate pups .

We all learn .

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com
 
#150 ·
Anthony you keep going back to Kira's world famous sire, her great pedigree, and "I obviously lack the knowledge and skills to raise a dog of this caliber."

Did you expect a dog that has a corona around her , a gift to dogdom barely touching the ground , people gasping and parting the way for you to pass.

She's a dog . Trying her best .

She's staying with you emotionally more than you are with her .

So she didn't meet your expectations . Does she deserve less? Absolutely not . Dogs are not accessories for our egos.

Make up your mind . Either committ to the dog or let her have a home where someone will.

She is a good dog at heart . She is fearful. Organize her world , which should not take much , so that she blossoms . This will take time , consistency, honest appreciation of her self.

I have to constantly test and cast a critical eye on my dogs, either the ones held back for service or the ones intended as breeding partners .
The worst person to fool is yourself .

I have resolved to not, never ever again , buy a dog from a person who does not themselves work dog. By that I mean a person has to have hands on experience not repeat what some broker in the chain of sales has told them . You don't do that , you can not evaluate pups .

We all learn .

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com

This post is really irritating. Anthony mentioned his dog's pedigree because people were getting off on genetics and the dog is what it is. I don't think he keeps coming back to it. I don't think he expects all the dogs in the dog park to make way for her royal highness. And I don't think there is anything wrong with being proud of the puppy you bought, of its pedigree. No, we should not put down other people's dogs and compare our dogs to their dog, but we should not feel embarrassed or ashamed for having a dog with an excellent pedigree.

Having a dog with an excellent pedigree does not guaranty that the pup will be problem free. But I think we have gotten that message.

I know you have a lot to contribute, lots of knowledge, but I just have to scratch my head sometimes, when you put people down like this.
 
#155 · (Edited)
Most family companion dogs are lucky if they get an obedience session or two in their lives.
My take after all this is to go have fun with your dog. That's what most families do.
Paralysis by analysis can drive us all insane.
It used to be easy to book a hotel or buy a TV. No more. Now we have to have endless reviews by who knows who and in the end it is just as hard or worse to make a decision.
I'd take a break and just have fun with her and at some point if you want look into agility, nose work or some other venue but she doesn't need to do anything to be good enough.
She's fine. All our dogs have something we would like to see different.
My wife actually thinks I could do some things differently.:)
 
#156 ·
I went to work today. Came home 3 hours ago.
Walked in my front door, and got a face bath from my dog, and loved every minute of it.
I took her to an open field, and played frisbee (her favorite) for over an hour. We then went to Petco, and had 10 people pet her silly.
Then I took her to the dog run, where she met her friend "Buddy". She and Buddy knocked each other around, until they drooled.
Now she's sleeping in her crate, while a bunch of wild kids run around my house.
WE had a nice day.
 
#157 ·
Freestep nailed it on the head.

There isn't anything more to contribute to this thread. In one breath there is a request for help to resolve a situation which is "escalating" , in the next there is a defensive protection of the dog "Kira's strong pedigree should've solved all her problems.

Her father is Remo, who happens to be World Seiger 2011, and her mom is a 2009 National Seiger winner. I'd say they have decent credentials." In training you work with the dog , not the piece of paper -- and , once again, question about the strength of the pedigree - strong for what ? Even this issue was discussed at length in a thread where there was some thought to Kira being bred . Same discussion on the pedigree.

so over and out -- on this one (agree with Cliff)
 
#159 · (Edited)
Freestep nailed it on the head.

There isn't anything more to contribute to this thread. In one breath there is a request for help to resolve a situation which is "escalating" , in the next there is a defensive protection of the dog "Kira's strong pedigree should've solved all her problems.

Her father is Remo, who happens to be World Seiger 2011, and her mom is a 2009 National Seiger winner. I'd say they have decent credentials." In training you work with the dog , not the piece of paper -- and , once again, question about the strength of the pedigree - strong for what ? Even this issue was discussed at length in a thread where there was some thought to Kira being bred . Same discussion on the pedigree.

so over and out -- on this one (agree with Cliff)
I have been actively helping Anthony with Kira , from the first visits to the dog park to this thread.
She is a good dog, a beautiful dog . She needs to be understood for what she is , and accommodations made for her . Like any family member .
Why don't you address the question prior?

Carmen, I don't like arrogance. And your arrogance is spilling over a bit too much for me.
Feel free to stay out of my threads. You can shake your head, bite your lip, whatever makes you happy.
I prefer constructive advice, not cr*p thrown in my face.
I'm sure you have wonderful dogs. You do brag about them, don't you? I guess you have an entitlement that other s don't have.

Have a nice day.
I don't like the way you speak to me. You are really p*ssing me off.
 
#160 ·
Wow, Anthony. Take a breather. You're taking this all WAY too personally.

Don't ask for help and advice if you don't want to hear it.

We have told you time and again... you're doing a good job. You have a nice dog. Even Carmen has told you this, but you choose to focus on the negative or perceived insults.

No one is perfect.

I guess I'll stop trying to help you, because instead of accepting the helpful things in this thread and moving forward, you're choosing to be all butt-hurt about some of the comments made. Good luck with Kira.
 
#164 ·
Anthony I think you have handled everything much better than most would. Since you got Kira you have been open to all input (and not all of it was great). This thread reached an abusive point and you handled it with grace. Everyone has a line and mean sarcastic words will cross it every time. I think you were more than patient with a number of folks and you are justified in taking it personal when certain lines are crossed.

I think you are an awesome owner and have gone above and beyond what the average population does for their dogs (granted this forum is not the average dog owner :)). Enjoy Kira, she's a good dog and she is lucky to have you as an owner.
 
#173 ·
Originally Posted by LoveEcho
Anthony, I've been following your story with Kira for a while. While some people feel the need to misconstrue what you say, I can only imagine how awful it must feel for you for someone to tell you you're not committed to your dog. You are more committed than the vast, vast majority of dog owners out there. You have dedicated a great amount of time to learning, asking questions, and gracefully taking advice. This has all been an immense learning experience for you, I'm sure, and at the end of Kira's long, happy, much-loved life you will look back and smile, even if right now it's not the rose garden you hoped for (I don't mean that in a bad way, I mean none of us ever really know what to expect). It's plain to see how much you really, truly love your dog, and your initiative to do right by her is inspiring.
Bravo!
 
#167 ·
Hi! I was just thinking about all your worries! Who doesnt have them with kids and dogs! Both are equally hard to train..actually kids are worse! Just wondering if Kira is your first dog...because I feel like you second guess everything..which is normal. Probably most people on this board have had many dogs...I myself have lost count thru the years. None were perfect! Well, my collie almost is...wub!

I would relax..get involved in a good dog club or two. Take her to class at least twice a week. Make a goal to show her in a rally show or such. Just for starters..something easy and fun. Work on her obedience every day..walk with her..take her to different parks..Start her in dock diving...(I realize you do much of this)

Lastly,(if you can stand my suggestions!)and most important...

I would keep a prong and drag line on her at all times, as long as she is being supervised. Then, when she does stuff you dont like, you can quickly correct her. Thats all..thats how she will learn how to fit in your family. Remember, its a process..she will backtrack and then get better and on and on..till finally she is the dog you want.!!!
 
#169 ·
Anthony, I understand where you are coming from with your remark about maybe she would do better in a home where she is appreciated and worked with by someone who is up to the task. I have certainly felt like that with my own dog, tanner.

Like Kira, Tanner comes from well known and competitively successful WGSL breeding. And like Kira, he has issues. I was even told by someone on this very forum a long, long time ago that if I had a better understanding of the special needs of a highly bred dog that I wouldn't have had the problems I had with him. If I remember correctly, I was told that I was expecting my high performance sport car to perform like a family station wagon.

I even considered it. Maybe it was true. In the end I decided that the dog didn't need anything from me that any other dog wouldn't have needed. He didn't know he was a high performance sport car, and as long as I treated him fairly, trained him and worked with him and fed him well he was as okay with me as he would be with one of those high performance owners.

So don't feel like Kira is missing out on some special life that she is barred from because you own her. She loves you. She couldn't give a good whoopty-do if you were the man on the moon. The only thing she cares about is how you treat her, not whether you are fancy enough for her bloodlines, or if you are knowledgeable enough right out of the box to respond perfectly the first time to every big and little issue that might arise with her.

I had to completely divorce myself from any expectation related to Tanner's breeding in order to really look at his behavior and deal with it effectively. A trainer I worked with told me I had to start looking at the dog that was standing in front of me, and only at the dog that was standing in front of me. I had to forget about his breeding and I had to stop thinking about what should be happening and start considering only what was happening.

I think that is what Carmspack was getting out. Not that I want to speak for her! But that is how I took her comment. Maybe because I have been right where you are and have had basically the same comment directed at me! It isn't easy to do. It sounds easy, but it really isn't. However the reward is a much clearer path forward with your dog. That is how I found it to be.

The advice to give Kira a safe place in a crate to chill during those high traffic times in your home is sound. I wouldn't put her in a different room entirely, but I would crate her in a quiet corner of the room where you are hanging out. And if you aren't already working with someone, find a trainer to guide you. I thought I was experienced in dog training until I started working with someone that was REALLY good and then I started to see how much I had been missing with my dog. I felt about two inches tall, but the good news was that I was improving!

Finding a hobby job that Tanner loved was key to working with him. For him it was herding. And then later, tracking. Find that job that Kira really, really loves and go for it. Doing something happily really does increase confidence!

Good luck. I have been where you're at. It can get better.
Sheilah
 
#170 ·
Anthony I think any dog would be lucky to live with you and your family:) I think you've done a great job with Kira.

When mine do something that I'm mortified over, or surprise me in a negative way, I just deal with it and move on, I except them for what they are, work with what I've got, and always remember that someone else out there has a worse problem than whatever mine may be at the moment.

You aren't a bad owner at all, just think of all you would have missed had Kira not come into your life, and all you would miss if she wasn't there..
 
#172 ·
Anthony, I've been following your story with Kira for a while. While some people feel the need to misconstrue what you say, I can only imagine how awful it must feel for you for someone to tell you you're not committed to your dog. You are more committed than the vast, vast majority of dog owners out there. You have dedicated a great amount of time to learning, asking questions, and gracefully taking advice. This has all been an immense learning experience for you, I'm sure, and at the end of Kira's long, happy, much-loved life you will look back and smile, even if right now it's not the rose garden you hoped for (I don't mean that in a bad way, I mean none of us ever really know what to expect). It's plain to see how much you really, truly love your dog, and your initiative to do right by her is inspiring.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top