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I think many of you may be right about Kira's aggression tendency.

26K views 173 replies 45 participants last post by  onyx'girl 
#1 ·
I've been keeping a close eye on my Kira. She's been with all of us for almost a year, and I've come here for every little thing, and have gotten great answers.


I think I may not be reading this correctly, and may warrant a discussion.
Her actions are escalating.

A few days ago, I shrugged off Kira going bonkers at a Chihuahua that showed up at my house unattended. That may have been more a red flag than I realized.
I may have a developing issue that needs attention.

Today, I observed a few new bouts of "what may appear as aggression". I'm not sure what's she's doing. She's charging forward, with a loud bark, and stopping at the "victim", and doing nothing at that point, but a sniff and walk away.

1) My daughter's 18 yr old male friend comes up from the basement. Kira didn't know he was the house. As soon as she saw him, she barked, tail up and curled, and barked as she moved towards him. He's a dog owner, so he stood still. She stopped barking, sniffed and walked away.

2) Kira was sitting inside my home, laying on an ottoman that overlooks the front of my house. All was quiet. My 13 yr old daughter had a male friend with her in front of my house. I was also outside with my daughter and her friend. My daughter asked for a ride to the mall.
As soon as the male friend approached my truck, and opened the door to enter, Kira started going bonkers at the window.

3) 9pm tonight. I take my 8 yr old and 13 yr for ice cream. Kira comes with us.Upon returning, I pull into my driveway, and see my 18 yr old daughter at the top of my steps with a male friend. Kira literally chased him in the house. Barking and approaching. Knowing that Kira is not known to be aggressive, and witnessing today's behavior, I commanded a stop, and down. She obeyed, and just dropped. The boy walked past her, and nothing happened.

What's going on?
 
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#2 ·
Anthony , how do you want your dog? You know that she has fear aggression and have been working on it for more than half the time that you have had her .
When I saw this http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/pictures-pictures-pictures/188527-kira-attacks.html I shook my head .

You can not fool around with this kind of stuff , making bite or harrassing someone rewarding for the dog one moment , and then be worried when she does the same thing later on , especially for a dog who has issues - black and white .
 
#9 ·
Anthony , how do you want your dog? You know that she has fear aggression and have been working on it for more than half the time that you have had her .
When I saw this http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/pictures-pictures-pictures/188527-kira-attacks.html I shook my head .

You can not fool around with this kind of stuff , making bite or harrassing someone rewarding for the dog one moment , and then be worried when she does the same thing later on , especially for a dog who has issues - black and white .
Carmen, the video was tongue in cheek humor,and Kira was not ordered to attack. SHe was bothering my wife. Every time my wife started doing her step dance, Kira would try to stop her.
They where playing.
She was only about 8 months, and coming out of her land shark phase.
 
#3 ·
What I'd like to see are some videos about how she truly reacts and not just what you see and think she does. I really want to see what she is doing. Chi on your property is an intruder. Intruders are not welcome. Not really surprising...

Stranger in the house without the dog knowing, that is an intruder.

Barking because you guys hop into the car to drive away could be out of frustration and she's not the only dog that does it.

There are other explanations but we have got to see it for ourselves to truly judge and help you.

Explanations are nice and well but you are so worried about aggression that you might read more into it than there is. Maybe you read her correctly, maybe you don't. The only way to really know is to see an actual video or the dog for ourselves.
 
#28 ·
Chi on your property is an intruder. Intruders are not welcome. Not really surprising...

Stranger in the house without the dog knowing, that is an intruder.
These are not intruders, the dog shouldn't be barking and running at people/dogs that are coming in with family. The dog should be able to read what the other people around it are feeling and not overreact to something as normal as someone coming into the house.

I know the over whelming feeling about the dog was that Kira reacted fine and that the neighbor was in the wrong for walking into a house where he thought there was a completely safe dog. What if Kira would've bit and killed the chihuahua? Is that worth ruining a relationship with a neighbor? You really think once the other neighbors would've heard the story they would just go "well he shouldn't have walked into the house like that" or would they go "wow there is a dangerous GSD down the street from us."

Now...reacting like that to people, that are with family is horrible. Great...she calms down once she's in their face and they don't react. What if the person does react? What if that 18 year old wasn't a dog person and did react to a full grown GSD running and barking at him? Would the feeling be, "well the guy needed to walk in and make it a point to introduce himself to Kira before going anywhere with Anthony's daughter." Great...now we have a dog that needs to approve everything that comes in and out of the house.

The thing with the wife...not an issue in my mind. My dog will jump on me and bite my arms when I'm hugging my GF. He thinks he's protecting her (and although she's his mom he might be trying to battle me for her) but I can make him down and stop at any moment.

What you need to do is figure out how to change her behavior when she's meeting people. I don't care what people say about GSDs, it is not acceptable in modern society for your GSD to bark and face up anyone that enters your home. It is seriously one step away from your dog making a bad decision which although might not cost your dog its life depending on the person on the other side of the bite (family, friends), it will still give your dog a reputation around the neighborhood that no one wants.

There is a difference between a dog barking once, and a dog running and barking straight at the new person. That is not an acceptable way of greeting anyone, no matter if its at home or out and about.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Carms is right.
I didn't comment in that thread, because it's not cute, funny or...anything except vastly confusing to the dog.
You ought to know better :(

We had a GSD that did the bark - would go right up to visitors and put his nose by their arm. He'd just sit there a moment, then walk off.
He never bit anyone (except one person who provoked him, then it was just a nip as a warning-the guy had teased our dog for months and then that day decided to stick his arm in the fence!) but it was like he was daring them to "mess up".
When he saw they meant no harm he'd relax and be their bud.

But it took a lot of working with him to respect us - and when I invite someone in my home, my dog better not decide they are not welcome!
And that's how we maintained that dog until he passed away. I trusted him implicitly with everyone.
 
#10 ·
Carms is right.
I didn't comment in that thread, because it's not cute, funny or...anything except vastly confusing to the dog.
You ought to know better :(




We had a GSD that did the bark - would go right up to visitors and put his nose by their arm. He'd just sit there a moment, then walk off.
He never bit anyone (except one person who provoked him, then it was just a nip as a warning-the guy had teased our dog for months and then that day decided to stick his arm in the fence!) but it was like he was daring them to "mess up".
When he saw they meant no harm he'd relax and be their bud.

But it took a lot of working with him to respect us - and when I invite someone in my home, my dog better not decide they are not welcome!
And that's how we maintained that dog until he passed away. I trusted him implicitly with everyone.
Kinda surprised you feel this way. I thought it was clear that we were just having some family fun, and Kira wasn't actually attacking anyone.
 
#5 ·
She's barking at easy targets. Small dogs and innocent little kids. Like everyone's saying, and I'm in total agreement, this is not acceptable behavior.

You've known your dogs has nerve issues for some time now. Socialization isn't the issue... we know you put the effort in and did everything you could. Kira is who she is. Beautiful dog, but she is obviously not a confident one. And now she's maturing into her adult mindset and out of being a puppy.

You're really going to have to monitor her at all times for now on. Fearful dogs are often nippers. They are a risk to bite and Kira's showing the warning signs. You have to always know where she is at all times. No open doors and no access to innocent kids, people, or dogs. It's probably going to be a life long thing. It's a good thing you're a responsible and diligent owner.
 
#6 ·
Sounds like she is overly protective to me. I had 2 sheps, not at the same time, but both were not trusted by me to let them near anyone. It happens a lot. Working in a lg vet hosp for 25+ yrs. I was always careful reaching towards the owners to take a leash. I'm no trainer, I worked with thousands of dogs following orders, treating them but I was so busy..I would go home and relax, not train..lol. I know how to read a dog very well. I think I know when a dog will bite before the dog does. I know when they are sick, not themselves, slightly lame, fearful, aggressive..etc

My dogs, although they were excellent with the family and kids, were timebombs of liability. I shied from walking them because although I can control my dog, I can't control someones kid bolting over to him. I could let him out of a room only after someone sat down.

I think your dog is overprotective and maybe somewhat cage aggressive..aggressive if she feels trapped against going after something.

Anyway..my 2¢
 
#7 ·
Jen... what you're describing is not being overprotective. When there's no real threat, what's the dog protecting?

What you described is poor nerve and possibly resource guarding depending on the situation.

A protective dog with good nerve should act accordingly. Think before they react. Assess the situation. Act only on real threats.
 
#22 ·
Jen... what you're describing is not being overprotective. When there's no real threat, what's the dog protecting?

What you described is poor nerve and possibly resource guarding depending on the situation.

A protective dog with good nerve should act accordingly. Think before they react. Assess the situation. Act only on real threats.
Exactly. I have two dogs that don't have stable nerves and one who does, big difference in the way they react.
 
#8 ·
the word overly is key -- "protective" before there is need to be , without actual threat , pre-emptive , I'll get them before they get me cuz the world is a dangerous place.
Not confident.
Test of situation would be if the subject of the "aggression" turned and responded in a forward aggressive manner - just like the old fashioned courage test (which was not prey) -- lots of dogs changed their mind and revealed their internal state of fear .

Kira would run , or run circles just outside of range , dart in nip, come from behind .

Socialization will not change things, only improve things to a point where you have that moment where you can control . You read the animal , and the animal , through the socialization has some trust of you , otherwise it would be panic and out of control .
Thresholds for excitement are low .
 
#12 · (Edited)
the word overly is key -- "protective" before there is need to be , without actual threat , pre-emptive , I'll get them before they get me cuz the world is a dangerous place.
Not confident.
Test of situation would be if the subject of the "aggression" turned and responded in a forward aggressive manner - just like the old fashioned courage test (which was not prey) -- lots of dogs changed their mind and revealed their internal state of fear .

Kira would run , or run circles just outside of range , dart in nip, come from behind .

Socialization will not change things, only improve things to a point where you have that moment where you can control . You read the animal , and the animal , through the socialization has some trust of you , otherwise it would be panic and out of control .
Thresholds for excitement are low .
Carmen, a lot of what you're seeing and saying seems to be a continuance of what we've discussed in the past. Just in a different form. Interesting.
She's also getting older and reacting differently to her internal state of fear.

I need to correct this. I have an idea where this could go.
I honestly don't know what to do at this point.

Kira is a cute, calm and very playful. She's the shy little girl that everyone can walk up to.
But deep down inside, there's a different Kira evolving. I see it. I don't see any more hesitance around other dogs. I see confidence in places where she would normally be hesitant to approach.
I don't see a scared dog. I see a confident dog. Maybe I' wrong. I'll take this further.
However, that doesn't mean that she's not "putting on a good show"
 
#11 ·
I'm going to stage a few scenarios and video them. It might give a clearer description of her actions.
I don't get the impression that she's being "mean" or wanting to bite. However, I am raising the subject to see where it could potentially go.

Carmen, and some others already knew that she had some "weak nerve" issues. She was always timid, and the type of pup that stayed near me, but never had a problem with people.
If i'm outside with her, she's completely different. She's calm, great on her leash, people could walk up and greet.
All of her actions are revolving around her home.

She barks at random people that walk into my home. Albeit a dog or human.
She barked at the young man that entered my vehicle.
She barked at the young man standing in my doorway.
 
#13 ·
"Quotes from the Kira attacks"
My wife was doing her daily routine, and I instructed Kira to harass her :)
What I found SO funny, was how Kira just casually walked up to my wife, did what she was told to do,"

In your response to Carms she said she wasn't told to attack...but in your other posts you say she was instructed by you.. it wasn't a true attack but for fun...but the idea is planted..
 
#14 ·
LOL... Are you putting me on trial here? Or are you here to address the thread?

It was a humorous post, intended to get a chuckle out of fellow members.
Yes, I was laughing, and said the Kira "go nip at mommy's shoe", and she coincidentally did it. That was the funny part.
Is she attack trained in the combat shoe biting? NO
Do I take her to local aerobic classes, and have her attack exercising moms on steps? NO

IT WAS A DARN JOKE!!!!
Some of you people act as if you never played with your dogs.

Rather than read into what I said (in humor). Why don't you take a good look at the dog's actions. Does she look like she attacked?
 
#15 ·
well Anthony I'll tell you, the video with your wife, didn't bother me one bit:) I saw it as Kira fooling around with your wife, how many dogs here have done just that? Quite a few I imagine.

My 2cents for what it's worth, she is what she is. I also would like to see a video of exactly what she's doing but again, what can ya do? Set up some stranger to get a reaction out of her? Not:(

My girl can be somewhat reactive off property, however, if a stranger was getting into my car in my driveway with me, the only way she's going bonkers is if she is PO'd at me for not taking her,,maybe so with Kira? Don't know.

Mine would probably also have a barking hissy if they turned a corner in myhouse and a strange dog was standing there, but a "knock it off" would have diffused it. I don't think it's unnormal for a dog to react to a strange dog walking in their front door if they are surprised by it.

Can't help you with charging strange people in the house/property, I have never had a gsd that 'did' that. Curious yes, like "who the heck are you?" confrontational no.

I can't recall, has she been spayed? If not, could she possibly be going into heat? Sometimes this can trigger weird behaviors, tho I know you've seen other instances as well.

It seems like the 'people' thing, is only happening on your property?

I don't have an answer for you and won't fathom a guess, but I do agree it's not protection, there is no 'threat' of a person just standing there.

Maybe if your really wanting answers is to find a gsd savvy trainer and have them come to your house and observe..
 
#23 · (Edited)
well Anthony I'll tell you, the video with your wife, didn't bother me one bit:) I saw it as Kira fooling around with your wife, how many dogs here have done just that? Quite a few I imagine.

Nothing more than a funny moment, enjoying our puppy at the time.

My 2cents for what it's worth, she is what she is. I also would like to see a video of exactly what she's doing but again, what can ya do? Set up some stranger to get a reaction out of her? Not:(

When I know that someone's coming over, I'll set up a camera to attemt to catch her in action

My girl can be somewhat reactive off property, however, if a stranger was getting into my car in my driveway with me, the only way she's going bonkers is if she is PO'd at me for not taking her,,maybe so with Kira? Don't know.

Mine would probably also have a barking hissy if they turned a corner in myhouse and a strange dog was standing there, but a "knock it off" would have diffused it. I don't think it's unnormal for a dog to react to a strange dog walking in their front door if they are surprised by it.

Can't help you with charging strange people in the house/property, I have never had a gsd that 'did' that. Curious yes, like "who the heck are you?" confrontational no.

I can't recall, has she been spayed? If not, could she possibly be going into heat? Sometimes this can trigger weird behaviors, tho I know you've seen other instances as well.

Yes, had her spayed 2 months ago.

It seems like the 'people' thing, is only happening on your property?

Yes, only on our property. She mingles with anyone, anywhere, otherwise.

I don't have an answer for you and won't fathom a guess, but I do agree it's not protection, there is no 'threat' of a person just standing there.

I think she got this from Coconut (our Maltese). She barks at anything that moves, and I noticed that sometime she'll look at Coconut, and wait for her to bark, and visa versa.

Maybe if your really wanting answers is to find a gsd savvy trainer and have them come to your house and observe..
I think she is saying

THESE BOY THINGS ARE NOTHING BUT TROUBLE

Good judgement.

Just joking

I raised two daughters myself. If I had a lot more to ad I would but I am no expert in dealing with this but it sounds like she is a little weak nerved from all that you have said and, because of her temperament, I would be most inclined to work scenarios in the house so she thinks any and all intruders are her friends and bring her good things.

No, that is not what you typically want to see is a confident GSD acting like a happy squirmy golden retriever but it may take some of the internal conflict away from her and boost her confidence.
Anthony - do you think Kira might be picking up on some hidden emotions from you? I am number 3 daughter out of 4 girls. We drove my father bonkers with our male friends.
Add in a pinch of new confidence and you might find your girl finally finding herself.
No, the boys are school acquaintances, and very good boys. They bring fun and laughter to my home, and the kids all have a nice time. They play video games, or basketball. They eat dinner with us, and get rides to and from the local mall. They're good kids, and have my approval. They're into school work, and half of them will grow up to be doctors.

As far as Kira's confidence goes... I think there may be some truth to that. She's going to be 14 months soon, and I guess it's expected that she stop acting like a shy puppy sooner or later.
I'm seeing her act the way I describe ONLY in my home.

My Mother in law walked in last night. We were expecting her, so the front door was unlocked. She walked right in. Kira heard the door, JUMPED up from her mat, gave a quick bark, saw it was her, and went back to her mat.
When my MIL made it to the kitchen, Kira walked over to her, wagging tail, got herself petted, and went back to her mat.
 
#48 ·
Sunflowers, I really like your post....I see it the same way. Her behavior seems no different to me than many many toy breed dogs I have seen over the years. When they first come into contact with someone new they rush forward barking, and then usually walk away if you stand there or go back to starting point. Maybe giving another bark, maybe not. If your dog was aggressive you have she has had plenty of opportunities to be truly aggressive. She is a GS,(which is aloof by standard), she has less than optimum nerves,(which makes her reactive), but overall a nice dog. I think the main problem is your expectations, she is not going to be the type of dog in certain situations that a dog with better nerve would be. Dogs like Kira have to be managed in certain situations, otherwise they are fine. They can't be compared to other GS, some things can't be fixed when distractions or new elements are introduced. Accept her for what she is and don't over analyze her behaviors, unless she does something irrational. Right now what you are describing makes plenty sense considering the circumstances.jmo
:thumbup:
 
#17 ·
I think she is saying

THESE BOY THINGS ARE NOTHING BUT TROUBLE

Good judgement.

Just joking

I raised two daughters myself. If I had a lot more to ad I would but I am no expert in dealing with this but it sounds like she is a little weak nerved from all that you have said and, because of her temperament, I would be most inclined to work scenarios in the house so she thinks any and all intruders are her friends and bring her good things.

No, that is not what you typically want to see is a confident GSD acting like a happy squirmy golden retriever but it may take some of the internal conflict away from her and boost her confidence.
 
#18 ·
Nancy good post, and now that you mention the boy thing, I was chuckling reading where his 18 yr old's male friend flew in the house ,,ok maybe not funny for him, but I could just picture that:)
 
#19 ·
Anthony - do you think Kira might be picking up on some hidden emotions from you? I am number 3 daughter out of 4 girls. We drove my father bonkers with our male friends.

Add in a pinch of new confidence and you might find your girl finally finding herself.
 
#24 ·
Just my two bits..but I think it would be odd if a stranger was in our house, suprised the puppy and the he did NOT bark. My pup will bark once if surprised by someone and then waggy tail right up to say hello. I feel like german shepherds are territorial and do tend to alert.

Maybe , just keep inviting people over and let her get used to people coming and going.
 
#26 ·
Just my two bits..but I think it would be odd if a stranger was in our house, suprised the puppy and the he did NOT bark. My pup will bark once if surprised by someone and then waggy tail right up to say hello. I feel like german shepherds are territorial and do tend to alert.
Maybe , just keep inviting people over and let her get used to people coming and going.
This is exactly what's happening.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Anthony are there are good trainers/behaviourists in your area that could help you? What worries me is that she's maturing from puppy to adult and you're seeing perhaps her adult personality forming and coming out now.

My girl Bunny was the sweetest puppy with both dogs and humans but once she hit the 1.5 year mark she started becoming extremely dog aggressive. It was a horrible time because she couldn't be off leash and we had to muzzle her for other dogs' protection. This went on for a year until I found a wonderful trainer who worked with us. She's a different dog now. I always felt like my life could have been so much easier if I had gotten the trainer before her behaviour escalated to the degree it did. Since you're starting to see new behaviours from Kira that you don't like, perhaps now would be a good time to seek some expert advice.

Perhaps you don't need a trainer but you seem concerned so it might help ease your mind. I personally didn't think her barking at the dog appearing in the house was a big deal but the charging and barking at your daughters' friends is a little concerning.
 
#31 ·
Anthony are there are good trainers/behaviourists in your area that could help you? What worries me is that she's maturing from puppy to adult and you're seeing perhaps her adult personality forming and coming out now.

And THIS is why I started the thread. I suspect something is NOT right. I'm NOT condoning her behavior, and I do feel that something is developing in her behavior, that WILL NOT have a happy ending.


My girl Bunny was the sweetest puppy with both dogs and humans but once she hit the 1.5 year mark she started becoming extremely dog aggressive. It was a horrible time because she couldn't be off leash and we had to muzzle her for other dogs' protection. This went on for a year until I found a wonderful trainer who worked with us. She's a different dog now. I always felt like my life could have been so much easier if I had gotten the trainer before her behaviour escalated to the degree it did. Since you're starting to see new behaviours from Kira that you don't like, perhaps now would be a good time to seek some expert advice.

Perhaps you don't need a trainer but you seem concerned so it might help ease your mind. I personally didn't think her barking at the dog appearing in the house was a big deal but the charging and barking at your daughters' friends is a little concerning.
The barking at the dog, may not have been a dig deal. OTOH, it was indicative of what might be going through my dog's mind.
The only reason why I shrugged at it, is because she is still young, and she's never seen a dog walk in my home, unattended.
What made me start the thread, is when I realized that I may be witnessing a pattern of this behavior, spilling over to humans too.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Can you describe HOW they're different?

I do believe that kira does NOT have stable nerves. Even if, in the eyes of an average owner, she would come off as a well trained, confident GSD.

She gets spooked in my home. I don't doubt that. But why bark when someone went near my truck?
Was she jealous? She ALWAYS goes for rides in my truck.
Onyx and Kacie would appear to be confident if you didn't know better. They bark and react without looking to me or other family for direction....try to take the situations in their own hands.
Karlo on the other hand will observe and seldom barks, and defers to us first.
We had a friend come over and he was in the back yard w/ us. Kacie randomly ran up and bit him in the butt(luckily got his wallet instead of skin) We did have a severe thunderstorm with heavy damage to our yard that day, and I think Kacie was pretty traumatized by it all. Still no excuse to bite our friend. It surprised us all that she did that.
I have to be very diligent with the females when ever people come over, or put them up. Karlo can be around anyone who comes over~ no problem.
And really, there is no desensitizing by having people come and go w/ my adult dogs, that can be overwhelming to have their home constantly 'invaded'....better to just contain them if necessary to keep everyone safe.
 
#30 ·
Sunflowers, I really like your post....I see it the same way. Her behavior seems no different to me than many many toy breed dogs I have seen over the years. When they first come into contact with someone new they rush forward barking, and then usually walk away if you stand there or go back to starting point. Maybe giving another bark, maybe not. If your dog was aggressive you have she has had plenty of opportunities to be truly aggressive. She is a GS,(which is aloof by standard), she has less than optimum nerves,(which makes her reactive), but overall a nice dog. I think the main problem is your expectations, she is not going to be the type of dog in certain situations that a dog with better nerve would be. Dogs like Kira have to be managed in certain situations, otherwise they are fine. They can't be compared to other GS, some things can't be fixed when distractions or new elements are introduced. Accept her for what she is and don't over analyze her behaviors, unless she does something irrational. Right now what you are describing makes plenty sense considering the circumstances.jmo
 
#33 · (Edited)
his dog is young we arent there we can't label his dog in black and white, ive seen dogs act like his and even if they are kicked or hit they will come back and nail you good. You cant label a dog until you know for sure. Some lines of gsd seem to act defensive like that early and still grow into nice dogs. Defensive drive stems from fear does it not? Some dogs choose to fight always and not flight when they feel fear.

He says his dog is not scared of people in public.


do you have a pedigree for your dog you can show us? I am curious?

you have a family and your dog sounds like the type that can grow up to be very very dangerous when it is an adult to strangers who enter the house unless you start getting real careful.

Dogs arent HUMAN they dont know what an intruder is and what isn't experience teaches them that over time.
 
#37 ·
his dog is young we arent there we can't label his dog in black and white, ive seen dogs act like his and even if they are kicked or hit they will come back and nail you good. You cant label a dog until you know for sure. Some lines of gsd seem to act defensive like that early and still grow into nice dogs. Defensive drive stems from fear does it not? Some dogs choose to fight always and not flight when they feel fear.

He says his dog is not scared of people in public.


do you have a pedigree for your dog you can show us? I am curious?

Here's her pedigree:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=737543

Enjoy.


you have a family and your dog sounds like the type that can grow up to be very very dangerous when it is an adult to strangers who enter the house unless you start getting real careful.

Valid concern. I agree

Dogs arent HUMAN they dont know what an intruder is and what isn't experience teaches them that over time.
Agree

I understood that the Chi was intruding. He was off leash, on his own, coming onto the property. Any dog would have reacted the way she did if another dog is coming onto your property. I know that my dogs, all three of them get pissed when the neighbordog is coming over, right in front of the window. But I can also call them off.

If that dog was lose/stray and Kira barked because of that, there is nothing abnormal about it.

As for a stranger in the house. I would like to know what exactly happened. Was she surprised by him? Did he stop, stare, tense up? Did he talk to her or just stood, giving her a blank stare, tensing up not saying a word?

In EVERY case, I feel that Kira was surprised by the presence of the human. She hears the sounds, investigates, then sees a human standing there.
The reaction of the human, IMO has been a natural tendency to freeze up.
I've encouraged the "humans" to put their hand out to allow Kira to smell. When they do that, Kira would sniff, lick their hand, and go back to her mat. Nothing more. No excited greetings, no jumping, nothing.


Descriptions are that, descriptions but you have to see where the problem lies with your own eyes. It's like coming onto a forum with doctors saying "Doctor, my belly hurts."
There is a thousand things that could be wrong. We are giving him an internet diagnosis.

I agree. I will video document her behavior for further evaluation.

Yes, everything points to a weak nerved dog but still, to be really sure, you have got to see it with your own eyes because there is a chance that things actually are a bit different than they seem to be.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I am a total amateur. I've raised my Kira with the assistance of this website. I have no formal training.
We both attended obedience school 6 months. She has decent basic obedience skills. I can recall her with confidence. She's great on the leash, and her sit, stay, leave it, etc... are fairly solid.
I never took it to a higher level, as much as I would have liked to.
 
#35 ·
Well but what are you calling a "stranger"? I gathered these boys, the MIL, are all routine visitors to the house and known to the dog.

Because my mother has in home care we have all kinds of people coming and going. Grim always barks when a new person comes to our door but does not charge or hackle or anything just barks then looks at me and shuts up. He ignores anyone who has been over to the house a few times and seems to have a decent memory on that (for example we have one helper who only comes on Sat and Sun) Actually, if anything is 'out of the ordinary' like a stove buzzer or something, he just comes to me and whines and will take me to it.

I have been told that than an adult, who is not me or my husband, into *our* part of the house (where they are not supposed to be) and we are not there he does bark at them but then calmly approaches them and follows them around until they leave. I have been told there has never been any threatening behavior other than the intial bark.

Of course whether or not he would do anything in the face of a real threat, I can honestly say I do not have a clue......so what IS breed appropriate behavior in that case? What would you look to see Kira doing? I would think if it is a person accepted by the family all is good.
 
#36 ·
Anthony, I sometimes stink at trying to explain in word what I want to say:rolleyes:

Basically I think you take too much time over analyzing everything Kira does...in return driving yourself bonkers, giving off mixed signals to Kira. IMO you also put her in awkward scenarios.

Is Kira a hard charger that is going to excel in protection work, no. Is she suitable for breeding, no. BUT BUT she is a lovely girl and seems like a nice dog all around. Enjoy her...stop over analyzing.

That's my two cents!
 
#38 ·
Anthony, I sometimes stink at trying to explain in word what I want to say:rolleyes:

Basically I think you take too much time over analyzing everything Kira does...in return driving yourself bonkers, giving off mixed signals to Kira. IMO you also put her in awkward scenarios.

Is Kira a hard charger that is going to excel in protection work, no. Is she suitable for breeding, no. BUT BUT she is a lovely girl and seems like a nice dog all around. Enjoy her...stop over analyzing.

That's my two cents!
This!
 
#40 ·
I didn't see people saying she's aggressive, but rather has fear or nerve issues.

Some of you people act as if you never played with your dogs.
I play but not send them in to "attack" (even in play) family members.

There's a thing called muscle memory and dogs utilize it too.
Play biting ought to be discouraged - puppies play bite in groups to learn muscle memory to eventually use, if necessary, on other dogs.
Dogs in Sch training are doing exactly that - muscle memory exercises.

Basically I think you take too much time over analyzing everything Kira does...in return driving yourself bonkers, giving off mixed signals to Kira. IMO you also put her in awkward scenarios.
This exactly. She's just a dog, at the end of the day, and you may never figure out why she does this or that.
Just relax and have her be a family pet, which is what she excels at :)
 
#42 ·
In EVERY case, I feel that Kira was surprised by the presence of the human. She hears the sounds, investigates, then sees a human standing there.
The reaction of the human, IMO has been a natural tendency to freeze up.
I've encouraged the "humans" to put their hand out to allow Kira to smell. When they do that, Kira would sniff, lick their hand, and go back to her mat. Nothing more. No excited greetings, no jumping, nothing.
If she did exactly what you just said than she knew that somebody was in the house and that is why I'd like to see a video. You say you think she was surprised but your wording says "No she wasn't."


How are you dealing with this? Are you always trying to be on top of things, tensing up yourself waiting for a disaster to happen? Because THAT is what could actually trigger her behavior in certain situations, like the situation with the boy. Because she could just see it as you projecting "Danger in the house" and that she has to do something about it because she feels that you are not being a good leader and she has to take care of these things. Putting a dog that is thinner nerved into that situation is a bad mix and it will only make things worse.

The problem might actually be YOU and not so much Kira. Your feelings, emotions, worries and fear might actually be the reason why she is starting to react the way she does and it is mainly happening subconscious since a lot of people are not even aware of when exactly they are doing it.
 
#43 ·
Anthony I have always respected you for being very proactive w/ Kira.this situation is you being pro active I think that in addition to GSD hving breed traits they are also individuals.Kira may need her enviroment managed more closely then other dogs.I lived w/ Daisy who until she was three I thought was very confident but learned she wasnt. I eliminated alot of stimuli and since children were not a good mix with her hire a sitter to watch her if my husband or I might be distracted. I dont think that kira has near the issues Daisy had but if I could go back at three I would hire a trainer to come to our house who loves GSDs and knows them.
Once again not an expert just raised a dog who has reactivity . The Kira attacks thing I dont know Kira from vids you shown loves your wife ,kids and your little dog too. I think she differs family from others. As for her being surprised by people in her house,last night Lucky Mr redirectable woke up from his nap in the basement came out saw our male neighbor with me as we were pulling mt lawn tractor out of a ridge i got stuck in. Luck was ballistic ,would not stop barking and as I was otherwise engaged couldnt let go and put him on leash. Lucky reacts to tyhe fence and people being on the other side but still in his yard. I wanted to throttle him as our neighbor was helping m,e and Lucky was very ungracious to say the least. The neighbor is afraid of dogs in general and I rescued a retriever from him. He actually kind of hates dogs. desensitizing Lucky is another issue we still work on. My point is dogs who are startled often react ones who are confident like Grim bark once and then just check things out or lay down. Not confident dogs dont deescalate on their own.
Just my non expert observations.
Maggi
 
#44 ·
Anthony - I consider Hondo a fairly solid dog. He doesn't have fear issues. He isn't bothered by anything notable. He'll even sit quietly while we practice with our fire arms.

Hondo doesn't, and never has played with dogs (ourside our own).

He doesn't and never has been a wiggly, butt, hello, type dog.

If someone drives down my drive, he'll bark. If someone walks down my drive, he'll bark. If I tell him 'enough' he'll be quiet.

If we have a visitor, I'll introduce Hondo to them, and all is fine. If we get too many people around, I'll put him up. He doesn't get nervous, he doesn't get aggressive, he just doesn't appreciate people trying to pet him and call him to them and fawn all over him.

I've never had a stranger/neighbor/family member just appear in my home. I would suspect Hondo would react if he walked around the corner and there was a person standing there.

Honestly, most folks are more worried about how I'd react if they just walked into my home.
 
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