German Shepherds Forum banner

What to do after an attack...

17K views 126 replies 45 participants last post by  chancey 
#1 ·
Hi. I had an 18 mo. old male GSD that attacked my 3 year old yesterday. Did sever damage to his ear and face. He was unprovoked and this is the 3rd time he showed aggression towards my 3 year old. He did not show any aggression towards my 5 year old or myself or husband. I am unsure as to what would cause him to do this. He was very well tempered until we were not around (in a different room) and then he just seemed to have it out for my 3 year old. The first 2 times he showed aggression towards our son we just thought he was playing rough. This time he actually attacked him and literally caused so much damage that he needed to have his ear surgically reattached. We are ask unsure as to what to do with the dog. I signed a release to allow him to be given back to the previous owner (at this point he is still up at animal control). The previous owner is a cop and said that he would do whatever we decided was best (put him down or not). The dog has been around other kids and was raised around this man's grandchildren. Our 3 year old son was not provoking him and was playing in the yard with our 5 year old son. He has never been anything but loving to the dog. So does anyone have any suggestions as to what would of caused him to do this?
 
#59 ·
I like Dr. Dunbar's Bite Assessment scale. Dr. Dunbar is a veterinarian AND a behaviorist, so is looking at both sides of the dog. Anyway he has stated over and over that he will not work with any dog's who has bitten at a level 4 or higher since he has never seen a dog with that level of bite inhibition be truly rehabilitated. I'm not sure what he would consider truly rehabilitated to be honest, but if he won't go there (and I've seen numerous case studies he'd published of aggression rehab) then I'm pretty sure it's not something anyone should go about.
Here's the scale-

Ian Dunbar's Bite Assessment Scale
Level 1- Dog growls, lunges, snarls-no teeth touch skin. Mostly intimidation behavior.

Level 2- Teeth touch skin but no puncture. May have red mark/minor bruise from dog’s head or snout, may have minor scratches from paws/nails. Minor surface abrasions acceptable.

Level 3- Punctures ½ the length of a canine tooth, one to four holes, single bite. No tearing or slashes. Victim not shaken side to side. Bruising.

Level 4- One to four holes from a single bite, one hole deeper than ½ the length of a canine tooth, typically contact/punctures from more than canines only. Black bruising, tears and/or slashing wounds. Dog clamped down and shook or slashed victim.

Level 5- Multiple bites at Level 4 or above. A concerted, repeated attack.

Level 6- Any bite resulting in death of a human.


We have been training professionally for 20 years and the one thing we stress to all clients is that NO dog should be left with any child for any amount of time EVER. My own dogs were never left in a room with my children, even if I stepped into the bathroom, the child went with me or the dog was crated. I guess I spent too many years in vet hospitals and dealt with too many heartbroken families with dogs of all shapes, sizes and temperaments and saw that ANY dog would bite and when all was said and done, the why didn't matter. Dogs can have misunderstandings just like people, they can interpret things in a way we don't comprehend and that's all it takes. Doesn't matter if the child wasn't doing anything at all concerning the dog.

In the past 20 years we have only ever advised 2 people to put a dog to sleep, one had attacked another dog, (long, scary attack) and the other had bitten a child in a manner similar to what happened to your son.
Go through the 10 day quarantine if that is what is required and then have the previous owner put him to sleep.
 
#60 ·
this is pretty good! i like that bite inhibition scale, that's pretty accurate too, when i compare it to what i've been working with the past 25yrs. and like you, in the last 25yrs, there's only been 1 time i've had to put down a dog as being beyond rehabilitation. i think i'm gonna have to look up this Dr. Dunbar.

dw~

sorry to detract from the thread.
 
#61 ·
there is no other option.
i'm sorry about your son.
the dog MUST be put down. period.

i'd also like to point you to a little something, just in case you ever decide to get another dog.
any dog that is new to you, should be crated for a MINIMUM of 2 weeks.
being that you have children, i'd suggest longer.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ng-not-strangle-my-moms-bf-2.html#post2432175

not only is this for your family's safety, but for the dogs as well.
 
#62 ·
there is no other option.



any dog that is new to you, should be crated for a MINIMUM of 2 weeks.
we have a crate for him, and he was supposed to either be in it or outside in the backyard unless we were in the room with him. When I was home he was always crated when I was not able to put him outside or be in the room with him to monitor. This once again goes to my husband not wanting to listen to his "naggy wife". Like I said, I don't blame him for this, but I do know this is a very hard lesson that he had to learn from not heeding my warnings.
 
#63 ·
I am so sorry for your child, I wish him a speedy and full recovery.

What I suspect happened is prey (over)drive kicking in. He was probably not in the home long enough to interpret the younger child as a pack member as opposed to prey. You don't really have a choice with this dog.

In many years of rescue I had one rescue who was not good with children. It was very obvious that children (and adults) have abused him badly before he came to me. As he recovered and regained physical strength, he showed fear aggression and I was never able to make him reliable around new people. He would het very upset aand bark at children from distance even. I managed to keep him safe, he never left the house without a muzzle. He was wonderful with the people he knew. In obedience class we were doing exercises with a stick and he tried to bite the stick even with a muzzle. it was obvious that he was beaten with the sick and with a belt. I never managed to fully rehabilitate him but he never hurt anybody.
 
#66 ·
They were not allowed to climb on Zeus. Yes I had allowed them to climb on and roll around with our previous dog, but we had had him for several years. This has also been a learning experience for myself as well, they will never be allowed to be alone with a dog in the future. I have learned that an animal is an animal.
 
#76 ·
I too want to add my sympathies. And a bit of hope for you: your demeanor, even right now, is extremely important in how your children handle this. As hard and unthinkable as it may seem, calmness is your best bet. Try not to react to the anxiety of your children--I'm definitely not saying to disregard their feelings and emotions, but I would listen without qualifying. To your oldest, you may be able to explain more, but less right now is your friend. Acknowledge their fear but don't encourage it, or inadvertently build on it. As time passes, and healing begins, you can explain that the majority of dogs would never have acted that way.

My best and most sincere thoughts are with you and your boys and husband.

On a side note, the links Jean (I think) posted are some I use in my bite inhibition class I teach at our local grade schools, grades 1-5. Some years I do several sessions, lately it's been one. Rocket has done one, my previous were with my Labrador and cats. Hopefully to prevent this from happening to older children, who either do not have their own dogs, or who visit people that have dogs that may not be socialized or trained, or who's parents do not teach appropriate behavior.

***** Not a commentary on the OP--in relation to some posts about children jumping and playing on dogs *****
Most dog bites either happen at home or at a friend/relative's house.
 
#81 ·
Hi Frpringle,

I didn't say anything earlier, but I understand exactly what you're going through. You can read my story - it's under this section of the forum - entitled "Serious unprovoked aggression".

Our rescued dog attacked our granddaughter and our daughter. But we do still have him - because he does have a medical condition.

Are we doing the right thing? - No, I don't think we are. But my OH will not even consider having him pts.

The others are here are correct in that you can never be sure what the future holds. Take us for example. Jake our dog is lovely - but there is no doubting he has a problem. He is on medication and to be honest we are having no problems with him - but we can't be sure we never will. He is with me or/and the OH almost 99% of the time. He has a really good quality of life. The only time he isn't with us, is if we have visitors, he is then locked in another room.

But what if I were to die tomorrow would my OH keep him ? - I can more or less guarantee that he would. But what if he were ill or died -what then? I just hope both of us outlive Jake - we should, but you can't be sure of anything.

My thoughts are with all of you.

Sue
 
#82 ·
I am so very sorry for all your family members this has happend :( I hope your little one makes a fully recovery and both boys recovery emotionally too :hugs:
 
#83 ·
just wanted to say a couple things,

First I think this is absolutely horrible what happened to the 3 year old, horrible:( I feel bad for both kids.

Something I wonder, and I am in no way excusing what this dog did.

THe dog had previously lived with small children without incident.
The times that these attacks occurred were when there was no adult present.
He never bothered the 5 year old?
That is just 'weird' to me.

I am in no way questioning what the dog did which was inexcusable but it just seems weird to me , why would he be ok when adults were present but not when they were out of the picture?

I"m glad your not taking him back, I hope your kids will recover physically and mentally.

Do I think the dog should be shot on the spot? I will honestly say, I'm not sure.
I do know I would never put him in a situation /home with kids again. But there alot of dogs out there that do not like kids/toddlers and are managed if you know what your dealing with.
 
#85 ·
Don't put human emotions on a dog. He is not jealous. What he might be is attacking the smallest to move "up the ladder" so to speak.
Wouldn't matter one bit why he did it. The dog would be dead already... Next time the same dog in another home could get a child by the throat and kill the child
I remember reading the story of the guy from"AxMen" who had two Rotts, had them for awhile. The one Rott grabbed his small daughter and killed her outright. They had had aggression issues with this same dog before,but because of general consenses of friends and trainers, they kept the dog and "worked" with him. Bet they wish they had destroyed the dog after the first aggressive issue.
It just scares me to read all these rescue dogs with aggression issues and everyone making excuses for them. Most likely the rescues are not informed when they take the dog in that it has already bitten before and that is the real reason why it is given to rescue, not because they have to move or whatever.Heck, the "humane society" where I live just gives a questionaire to fill out, and when it asks if there is agression, of course everyone says no. Then they adopt the dog out to the next unsuspecting family and someone else gets bit. Until somebody has the guts to destroy the animal, the cycle will continue.
I never recommend adopting an adult dog to a home with children, just to many "factors" can set off an adult dog, whether they have come from home with kids or not.Pretty easy to say" dog is great with kids,lives with 4 of them, yadda yadda". Course what the owner doesn't say is"the dog is chained or kenneled in the yard and never free around the kids or other dogs,or cats, etc.
The humane society here had two adult GSD's come in.My friend does a GSD rescue and had me call and say she would take both of them. She will keep the dogs, take them through training classes and test them, keeping them as long as necessary before she adopts them out. (she has been showing/training all breeds/runs boarding kennel for 25+ years)Anyway, called and they had already adopted the female out within one day to out of state folks. No testing was done, nothing except vet care.My friend got the male and when they checked on the female,found she had already killed the family cat. When asked if the HS had done any testing about cats,kids, etc, the answer was"oh no,we did read the paperwork".Hopefully the people will return the female and she will be turned over to my friend to be adopted out correctly.
 
#105 ·
Don't put human emotions on a dog. He is not jealous. What he might be is attacking the smallest to move "up the ladder" so to speak.
I did think it was kind of ironic that you admonished someone for putting human emotions on a dog and then put human thinking on the dog -- moving up the ladder.

But whatever. I highly doubt this dog thought anything to do with dominance/pack order. I think his instincts drove him to attack the small strange thing. I know he was around his previous owner's grandchildren, but maybe they were beyond this younger child's age. And it is also possible that the reason they gave up Zeus was because of some questionable actions around the grandchildren. But we will never know that answer.

And while I know dogs have something like jealousy, this dog wasn't attached to this family long enough for this to be a problem. If I remember correctly, the dog was only there for a week. And, jealousy does not cause a dog to attack something three days later or 2 hours later. Usually jealous issues cause bitch fights when the owner is present, and paying attention to one of the bitches.

But I agree that it does not really matter why the dog acted how it did.
 
#86 ·
This dog is not a rescue.

I believe you need to hold a dog after a bite for 10 days, even with vaccinations. Dogs must also be euthanized correctly in order to be submitted for rabies testing, so shooting a dog upon incident would probably not be a good recommendation (in case anyone reading this thread would actually think it was).
 
#97 ·
This dog is not a rescue.

I believe you need to hold a dog after a bite for 10 days, even with vaccinations. Dogs must also be euthanized correctly in order to be submitted for rabies testing, so shooting a dog upon incident would probably not be a good recommendation (in case anyone reading this thread would actually think it was).
That is correct. Years ago my parents GSD bit the mail person. Barely broke the skin, did not even bleed. The dog was up to date on all vacs, including rabies. They were required to send her for 10 days for quarentine (sp). But they could do it at the vet clinic.

Their choice was the 10 days, or PTS.
 
#87 ·
Shooting the dog is never the right answer unless you are in immediate danger. The kindest thing that can be done for this dog, and obviously the OP wants to do right by her family and the dog, is to take him to the vet after the 10 days is up and humanely euthanize him.
 
#88 ·
I agree, shooting would be the last resort for sure, to send off the brain it needs to be mostly whole if possible and put on ice immediately,then sent to the lab for testing. We did send a skunk that had bit a puppy,they shot it in the head with a 22,(the skunk,not the dog) we were able to send what was left of the skunks head and it did not have rabies, thank goodness.
I know this dog was not a rescue, but I guess the same would apply as to bringing an adult dog into a home with young kids even from a friend..
 
#89 ·
Do I think the dog should be shot on the spot? I will honestly say, I'm not sure.
I do know I would never put him in a situation /home with kids again.
Shooting the dog, if done correctly, won't destroy so much brain tissue there would be none left for testing.
And although not for the squeamish, almost all the cases where I've been present and a dog was shot (I've never done it myself, but been on scene when officers made the decision to lethally shoot a dog) the dog was dead immediately after the shot, so it's not inhumane - if done correctly.

The main thing being, he wouldn't have a chance to attack again. If he's at the shelter, someone's going to feel sorry for it, nevermind he almost killed a child, and the dog won't be put to sleep. Just a hunch here, but I've seen plenty of issues where dogs even killed humans and people felt sorry for it and want to give it another chance.

Not to mention, this dog has bitches lined up for breeding :rolleyes:
 
#100 ·
The previous owner has already picked him up and he is being held in quarantine for the 10 days. The last day he will call me and ask me what I want to do. He had already said he would of shot the dog on spot and has no issue with ha ung the dog put down. I was not home and my husband was too busy calming our children and calling 911 to worry about dealing with the dog in that moment, or else the dog would of been killed on spot. Plus we do not own a gun. I didn't want to make a decision out of anger, which is why the previous owner took him to animal control instead of just shooting him. He is now back in a familiar environment so he isnt stuffed in a shelter anywhere. After all the advice I have received on here, the dog will be PTS after the 10 days are up. There is no way I could accept anyone else getting hurt.
 
#92 ·
OMG. I just realized this is the same person who got this dog, no papers or anything and wanted to"stud him out"... I would be wondering why a cop gave a dog like this to someone with young children, maybe he washed out of a program..
Put this dog down, do not let anyone decide he needs a second chance or training or behaviouist , he needs to be dead.
 
#99 ·
It was presented to me to stud him and I thought "oh that would be good." then common sense kicked in that this dog had nothing incredible about him that stood out to me other than he was a good looking dog. So that's why I came on here to get some advice because although at first studding him seemed like a good idea, at second look it didn't make sense to me why he was going to be studded. He was already set up to stud before I got him but after I had got a lot of information on here I told the previous owner he would not stud until I had his hips ofa approved and the other necessary health checks done. So he could of been studded for at least 6 more months if not longer. He wasn't going to be studded unless it was done correctly.
 
#93 ·
I find it troublesome to hear words like unforgiveable, moving up the ladder, wouldn't make it out of the yard if he did that to my kid. It is a dog, not a human. Should it be put down? Definitely. But not because it is a bad dog. It is not a bad dog. It is a dog. And the dog has a screw loose. Not bad. So it is a domestic animal that is unsafe with humans. In the wild this dog would have probably been killed by its own. Because it has a screw loose. It isn't right. Not that it is bad.

They say that dogs have the emotional spectrum of a very small child. I really don't think so. I think they feel pain, grief, fear, jealousy, devotion, joy, excitement, contentedness and others I am forgetting, but they are a canine version of what humans feel -- deeper, rawer, stronger, perhaps. But judging a dog on expectations of adult emotions blows my mind.

It is a domestic animal that is not working out in a domestic situation. It is definitely not right. It has a physical, in this case mental problem. This is not about the dog being responsible, or needing to be forgiven. It has no clue that he was on strike three. A bite like that does not need to have more than one strike.

I feel for this dog. I really do. He is probably weirded out in a small kennel at an animal control facility, where people are pushing food at him, but he does not know any of them and they do not care about him. lt would probably have been better if the dog was shot right off. But it was not, and we should test for rabies, etc. And yes a shot done right is humane. The dog is not sitting there thinking, "Gee, I should not have tried to kill the master's son." This dog's temperament - genes/physical health /environment-history conditioned him to attack that child in that moment. It is not about being bad, it is an animal with a group of characteristics that is just not safe to keep alive.

As I said, that for the dog, the best thing would to have been shot right off. Just not as some sort of retaliation to what the dog did to the boy.
 
#94 ·
As I said, that for the dog, the best thing would to have been shot right off. Just not as some sort of retaliation to what the dog did to the boy.
No not as retaliation. More like "this do is incredibly broken and we're ending the problem here and now".
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top