He totally bit someone today....

[BGSD]

Took him for a walk today and some guy saw him. "What an awesome dog, so beautiful, oooh black GSD, blah blah blah."

Anyways, guy starts to pet him and my dog tolerates it for about 5 seconds then tries to bite/nip his hand after sniffing him a little. I correct with the prong. (Note: Similar situations had occurred 2 other random times in the past, so I was not shocked per say).

Anyways, since the guy was totally cool about it and didn't seem to go away, I figured I could use this as a training opportunity (perhaps a mistake). I give the guy some treats and say to approach the dog slowly and offer the treats with an open hand. I even shake hands with the guy first to communicate that the guy is not a danger. Anyways, my GSD spends 3 seconds sniffing his hand and then BAM! nips/bites his palm. Tiny wound, but it was legitimately bleeding.

I was very appologetic, but the guy was still totally cool "oh it's ok, this stuff happens" and we go our separate ways. Maybe he'll come back to sue me or something later I don't know.

The guy was smoking, maybe he didin't like the smell? But anyways, this event has totally freaked me out now. It's his 3rd time of expressing such behavior toward a stranger. But it's the first time he's actually hurt a stranger. And I've pretty much decided that I will not allow any stranger to touch him or get too close to him anymore. I will also muzzle him securely when at the vet. I don't want my dog to be taken away/put down and I don't want to get sued.

I'm done with all the socializing. I really tried to socialize as much as possible since he was 12 weeks until now - 1 year. Up to the point of sexual maturity, he was super friendly with everyone; so much so that I was concerned about it if you look at my old threads. But now, he's completely aloof, scared, or aggressive or some combination; I don't know.

I really didn't want my GSD to paint a bad aggressive picture for the breed, but I think I have failed.

[jennyp]

Oh no, I'm sorry to hear that. Are you working with a trainer/behavioralist? If so, what do they suggest?

[ShenzisMom]

It was time to get a trainer 3 months ago when you admitted your quickly growing male GSD bullies you. Now you have a potential lawsuit.

Do the right thing and get into a training facility.

[selzer]

I doubt he will sue you. But don't minimize and don't make excuses (smoking). I am not a behaviorist. I have heard that sometimes correcting with a prong collar can make a reactive dog moreso, I guess the dog associates the correction with the item he fears and reacts to moreso than the behavior. I dunno, just think that didn't work, get with a trainer.

There is more to this than just wearing a muzzle in public or not letting strangers pet your dog. It is disconcerting that the dog is taking it upon himself to decide who he will tolerate and who he will not, and that he will go directly to snapping/biting rather than barking, grumbling, growling, snapping without contact, etc. I almost think the dog is confused about who gets to make decisions, but I can be all wet about that, it can also be that the dog had been taught effectively not to bark, grumble, or growl.

[BGSD]

Originally Posted by selzer

I doubt he will sue you. But don't minimize and don't make excuses (smoking). I am not a behaviorist. I have heard that sometimes correcting with a prong collar can make a reactive dog moreso, I guess the dog associates the correction with the item he fears and reacts to moreso than the behavior. I dunno, just think that didn't work, get with a trainer.

There is more to this than just wearing a muzzle in public or not letting strangers pet your dog. It is disconcerting that the dog is taking it upon himself to decide who he will tolerate and who he will not, and that he will go directly to snapping/biting rather than barking, grumbling, growling, snapping without contact, etc. I almost think the dog is confused about who gets to make decisions, but I can be all wet about that, it can also be that the dog had been taught effectively not to bark, grumble, or growl.

I've been looking for a trainer for a while now. But it's been difficult to find a legitimate trainer that actually works with my busy work schedule.

Overall, I'm finding him to be unpredictable with strangers. So for now, no more strangers petting him or any of that jazz. The stange thing for me was the sniffing then the biting. Almost like he was thinking about it.

Also, he barks, grumbles, and growls freely. I have never trained him to not do any of that. Other than telling him to be quiet when he barks excessively.

[CeCe]

I don't let any stranger ever touch or pet my dogs while out on walks- my Lila is weary of strangers and will nip and my other girl Cece is friendly but I don't want to get sued if by chance she jumped on someone and they fell or something similar happened. GSDs bond deeply with their people and don't particularly want to be petted by strangers.
You haven't failed your dog-I socialized both my girls the same and they both have different tolarences to stress. Lila sees a behaviorest and has to be more carefully managed. It's just her personality and I had to learn to stop blaming myself and focus on things she can do.

[PaddyD]

Originally Posted by selzer

I doubt he will sue you. But don't minimize and don't make excuses (smoking). I am not a behaviorist. I have heard that sometimes correcting with a prong collar can make a reactive dog moreso, I guess the dog associates the correction with the item he fears and reacts to moreso than the behavior. I dunno, just think that didn't work, get with a trainer.

There is more to this than just wearing a muzzle in public or not letting strangers pet your dog. It is disconcerting that the dog is taking it upon himself to decide who he will tolerate and who he will not, and that he will go directly to snapping/biting rather than barking, grumbling, growling, snapping without contact, etc. I almost think the dog is confused about who gets to make decisions, but I can be all wet about that, it can also be that the dog had been taught effectively not to bark, grumble, or growl.

Not a behaviorist? Maybe you should be. You always make sense and see the heart of the problem.

[squeakermama]

I'm a true believer that a dog should never show aggression without due cause like being hurt. Having a dog protect is more of a behavior than true aggression and should be able to be controlled. I also think that your dog is showing signs of distrust/distress and not just all out aggression. Needs you to be a leader to feel comfortable. You might be doing things to be giving him some mixed signals (?) causing confusion on who is in control. I agree that you need a good trainer. If you don't get a handle on the situation a law suit is predictable. Keeping a muzzle or isolating your dog is not going to fix the behavior and probably increase the behavior. Muzzles are great for training but suck as a all over fix it. Best Regards.

[msvette2u]

Originally Posted by CeCe

GSDs bond deeply with their people and don't particularly want to be petted by strangers.

This.
I don't know why anyone would want people to pet their dog anyway - but if someone chose to (against advice from the owner) then they ought not be bitten because of that.

Originally Posted by CeCe

You haven't failed your dog-I socialized both my girls the same and they both have different tolarences to stress.

I actually do think people fail their dog(s) when they allow the dog to become so stressed out it does nip or bite someone. If this dog was leashed, it was under control and the owner made the decision that, although the dog has shown clues and hints in the past that it might nip/bite, someone should pet it. And it then proceeded to bite/nip not once but twice.

The first time should have been a clue. There should have been numerous clues even before this first nip that turned into a bite. Clues that should have told you "Don't let people pet my dog!"
And I've also heard jerking on a prong can make aggression worse. It makes sense.

To the OP - you are probably transmitting signals down the leash, your apprehension is causing the fear to be worse. This sounds like a fearful dog and you're missing all the signs and exposing this dog to the very things that are making it uncertain and fearful. And then compounding it.

So yes, I do feel you are failing your dog, but you can stop this pattern and get help, if you're broke and can't hire a professional, at the very least learn DOG 101, read books and learn how to stop this or your dog will soon wind up at the vet clinic waiting for the needle.

Here's a very good book you can buy or maybe even find at the library today.
Fearful Dogs | Positive help for fearful, shy & anxious dogs

[carmspack]

some dogs are just not pyschologically balanced .
I don't know this dog from previous posts, others do , and there seems to be a consistency . BGSD says of her dog "Overall, I'm finding him to be unpredictable with strangers. So for now, no more strangers petting him or any of that jazz. The stange thing for me was the sniffing then the biting. Almost like he was thinking about it.

Also, he barks, grumbles, and growls freely. I have never trained him to not do any of that. Other than telling him to be quiet when he barks excessively."

that is a nerve issue . You are not going to change the spots on the dog, you can not train basic temperament -- with training the dog might resent the pressure and direct that fear aggression on the handler . Things to be found out . On the other hand "good" training may take some of the pressure away from the dog because it knows what to do and will settle in to that framework. Training with a skilled person directing is necessary. The rest comes down to dealing with the reality of what "this" dogs limits and potentials are and managing the dog well .

I have never bought the stranger give a cookie bit to socialize a dog . The handler is the role model , how you behave and your comfort signal the dog , in youth when it is still developing . A mother dog who scoots away will have all her pups follow , without question .

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs