Alternative View on Dog Aggression/Bites

[Jack's Dad]

There are several threads lately where those with aggressive dogs seem to be unhappy with the general public.

In public we have dogs off leashes, drunks, idiots, stupid people. There are also homeless, druggies, low lifes, mentally ill and the list goes on.

So apparently if these people listed above either weren't around or could get it together, then those who have aggressive dogs who may bite would be free to go wherever without a care.

Whatever reason dogs become this way doesn't matter in the long run. It could be genetics, trauma, poor or no training or other reasons.

After the first bite or extremely aggressive action, then I believe all responsibility lies with the owner of that dog. Either rehabilitate them if possible or keep them from people or other dogs.

Having a dog like that whether in public or in a private home where they have an opportunity to do damage to people or dogs is irresponsible in my opinion.

Their dog should not become everyone else's problem or fear.

People should be able to come and go in public without fear from known aggressive dogs. If I am invited to a provate place as a guest I should not have to worry about my safety.

Trying to make the public responsible, no matter what name is used to describe them (eg. idiots etc...) is not right. You also jeaporidize the dogs life by not confining or controlling.

People who choose to keep these dogs should not be making excuses based on the stupid publics behavior. They need to focus on how to handle and confine their dogs.

[sparra]

Well said

[NewbieShepherdGirl]

Originally Posted by Jack's Dad

If I am invited to a provate place as a guest I should not have to worry about my safety.
.

I agree for the most part with your post but I would also like to add that if you are a guest you should also comply with the requests of your hosts. If host says leave them be, then leave them be; it's respectful (kind of like taking your shoes off at the door if the person doesn't like shoes worn in the house or any other rule/request they have) and it also helps ensure you don't have to worry about your safety.

[Freestep]

I'm sorry, but if you are a guest in someone's house, you don't get drunk and act like a boorish macho man, ignore when your host says "Don't touch", and force your host to take a bite that was meant for you. That's almost criminal, and it's neither the host nor the dog at fault, yet the assinine boor could sue the pants off the host had he been bitten. It's a crazy world.

Whether I could harbor such a dog myself, I don't know; I personally wouldn't want the liability.

[chelle]

Originally Posted by NewbieShepherdGirl

I agree for the most part with your post but I would also like to add that if you are a guest you should also comply with the requests of your hosts. If host says leave them be, then leave them be; it's respectful (kind of like taking your shoes off at the door if the person doesn't like shoes worn in the house or any other rule/request they have) and it also helps ensure you don't have to worry about your safety.

Agreed, but I wouldn't have guests that wouldn't comply. They'd be out the door. I've had two people, close to me, that have done things that were unacceptable with Bailey. First I told them to immediately stop it and then explained my reasoning. They both complied. If they wouldn't have, I'd demand they leave. My dog lives here, my guests don't. Don't come here if you don't like three dogs and a cat running around.

I hate the idea of having to crate an animal for guests. I never want to have to do that. I want dogs who are friendly with guests, or who are at least well behaved and ignore the guest.

I do hope and pray Bailey never shows the kind of behavior, Lord Forbid that he bites anyone, and I'm forced to crate him or separate him just because people are here. Talk about making dog ownership a DRAG. BUT, if the day comes that I can't work thru it, can't train it out, I'd do that rather than risk a bite. I agree completely in that once you know your dog is a bite risk, you take mega, ultra precautions to ensure it doesn't happen again.

[Jack's Dad]

Originally Posted by Freestep

I'm sorry, but if you are a guest in someone's house, you don't get drunk and act like a boorish macho man, ignore when your host says "Don't touch", and force your host to take a bite that was meant for you. That's almost criminal, and it's neither the host nor the dog at fault, yet the assinine boor could sue the pants off the host had he been bitten. It's a crazy world.

Whether I could harbor such a dog myself, I don't know; I personally wouldn't want the liability.

In a perfect world Freestep guests would not do that. Nor would young people die of alcohol poisining from drinking too much just to get into a fraternity or sorority. Off topic but in the university near us they had 3 rapes within a month or so when school began. All parties in all 3 cases were known.
They could not prosecute anyone because they were all too drunk to remember clearly.

[NewbieShepherdGirl]

Originally Posted by Jack's Dad

In a perfect world Freestep guests would not do that. Nor would young people die of alcohol poisining from drinking too much just to get into a fraternity or sorority. Off topic but in the university near us they had 3 rapes within a month or so when school began. All parties in all 3 cases were known.
They could not prosecute anyone because they were all too drunk to remember clearly.

It's not just in a perfect world they wouldn't do that. That's like saying, "Well in a perfect world those three rapes wouldn't have happened, but what are you gonna do? They were invited into the house." No. In the regular world you can expect guests to adhere to the rules/and requests of the house. Being drunk does not excuse people from inappropriate/foolish behavior of any kind and other people are not responsible when, after they've tried to advise the drunk person not to do something, something bad happens.

And I'm sorry but I've been drunk and you know what you're doing.

[selzer]

Originally Posted by Jack's Dad

In a perfect world Freestep guests would not do that. Nor would young people die of alcohol poisining from drinking too much just to get into a fraternity or sorority. Off topic but in the university near us they had 3 rapes within a month or so when school began. All parties in all 3 cases were known.
They could not prosecute anyone because they were all too drunk to remember clearly.

A dog is still a dog. If a child slams himself down on top of a dog, the child might be bitten. If a drunken fool does not listen to what he is told, he might cause an accident. If an idiot is pushing past me to get to my dog and gets himself bitten, that is on him. I might have to pay for it, and my dogs might have to pay for it, but one can only be so careful. We do not have English Setters, we have German Shepherds. And while they are smart, loyal, obedient, and courageous, they also have teeth.

[Jack's Dad]

Originally Posted by NewbieShepherdGirl

It's not just in a perfect world they wouldn't do that. That's like saying, "Well in a perfect world those three rapes wouldn't have happened, but what are you gonna do? They were invited into the house." No. In the regular world you can expect guests to adhere to the rules/and requests of the house. Being drunk does not excuse people from inappropriate/foolish behavior of any kind and other people are not responsible when, after they've tried to advise the drunk person not to do something, something bad happens.

And I'm sorry but I've been drunk and you know what you're doing.

I would like for this not to turn back into that thread. I never excused the drunk and don't excuse anyones behavior because they are drunk or drugged.

The whole point is that there are all different people in the world and some behave poorly.

You will meet those people from time to time and if you have a dog who bites it is your responsibility to confine or contain that dog or suffer the consequences. That could be financial liability, (huge financial liability) and your dog could wind up being put to sleep.

So if you have a high risk dog and it bites someone no matter how (stupid) they are you will wish you had not tried to make others responsible.

[sparra]

Originally Posted by chelle

Agreed, but I wouldn't have guests that wouldn't comply. They'd be out the door. I've had two people, close to me, that have done things that were unacceptable with Bailey. First I told them to immediately stop it and then explained my reasoning. They both complied. If they wouldn't have, I'd demand they leave. My dog lives here, my guests don't. Don't come here if you don't like three dogs and a cat running around.

I hate the idea of having to crate an animal for guests. I never want to have to do that. I want dogs who are friendly with guests, or who are at least well behaved and ignore the guest.

That is where I differ from you. We have many friends who are not dog people who visit regularly. Even though it is my home and my dogs love people I still respect their needs....which are sometimes to lock the dogs up as they are uneasy with them around. I would not offend my friends for the sake of my dogs. They get a bone to chew on and are not offended in any way by being put aside. My dogs are happy and safe, our friends (and in most cases their children) are happy and safe.....everybody wins.
If I had a dog that everyone couldn't interact with safely well that dog would not be given the chance to fail. It would be removed for the evening or day until everyone had gone as telling people to not pat the dog is just not enough and whether or not you think it should be is not really the issue....the fact is people are people and they make mistakes, overstep the boundaries, don't listen or simply forget.....that is just a fact of life.