Just need to hear some opinions

[khamilton]

Just a warning-this will be long.
I've posted about Ketchup before. He had pretty sersious food aggression issues as a very young pup. Nothing I've ever seen before.
Before people assume I'm a first time owner, I'm not. I have considerable experience with dogs of all types, particularly German Shepherds and working dogs. I don't say this to brag or make myself sound good I just really want people to appreciate the severity of the situation.

A background on him: He is a neutered male, 19 months old. He gets a lot of exercise (mininum 2 hours of walking every day) with one and a half hour runs mixed in 4/5 times a week. He is intellectually stimulated with a lot of training, agility, search and find it games etc. He has always had a lot of people in his life and they have always treated him well.

I worked with Ketchup, doing everything I knew and with the help of a couple other trainers we worked out most of the aggression issues. He has dog aggression but this too is not something I feel can't be fixed.

Ketchup's problem is the human aggression at completely uncalled for times. Now everyone knows that dogs give warnings and that they bite for a reason. Whether that be because there aren't boundries and they believe they are the alpha, they feel threatened, they are responding to pain, they are guarding etc. but Ketchup is the first dog that I have seen bite with no warning and completely out of the blue. I thought maybe I was missing something so I a couple close friends who work with dogs come and check him out. They were bitten (eventually, this doesn't happen instantly) both at a time when they had already gained his trust and were very calm and he was calm. It's almost like he flips a switch and then he instantly backs off and then seems confused almost like he doesn't know what's just happened and doesn't understand why people are upset.

Finally I decided to have a behavourist come look at him. Things were going well, when I explained the problem they said 'dogs bite for a reason. We are here to figure out what that is'. Two hours later the man was bitten. Hard. Ketchup drew blood but as always backed off and looked confused. The behavourist looked at me and his partner and shook his head. He said only once in his career had he seen a dog that snapped for no reason with no warning signs. He said this dog had a neurological disorder and that with age the problem got worse until the family couldn't even get close to their own dog and it had to be put down.

So what now? Will this get worse with age? Obviously I am taking the dog to the neurological clinic to be assessed and he is going for ANOTHER complete check up because I still think it might be a medical issue (he has always had stomach problems and perhaps it's related like a thyroid issue or something). He has been to three vets and each of them say he is fine but I know dogs are often misdiagnosed.

So what I'm looking for here is advice/ shared situations. Has anyone ever experience this before? Was it a medical issue? Could you solve it with medication? I can't give up on my dog. I will not give him to someone else only for him to hurt them and end of being put down as a result.

[BR870]

Rage Syndrome perhaps?

Rage syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The dog will suddenly act aggressively to anyone nearby, but minutes later will be calm and normal. It does not seem to remember or realise what has taken place and may act immediately friendly to the person(s) that it previously attacked. Attacks such as these have not stopped with training because it is a problem that the dog seemingly cannot consciously control. The attack will happen without apparent cause."

[khamilton]

[QUOTE=BR870;2333825]Rage Syndrome perhaps?

That's exactly what the behavourist thinks and from what I've read about it, it sounds spot on.
Do you know if this is something that can be managed or treated with medication?

[BR870]

I have no idea. I've only read about it. However if it is indeed a seizure disorder, perhaps it can be treated with anti-seizure medications.

[khamilton]

thanks for the help. After you mentioned it I read this http://ezinearticles.com/?Unpredicta...rder&id=998912 which seems pretty close to what we are going through. It really is hard because it's like 98% of the time he's the best dog in the world and that 2% he's the most dangerous and I don't trust him myself let alone with kids or strangers. I hope the neurologist can help us here.

[Lmilr]

I have no advice really but just want to say good luck and I hope that the neurologist can do something for him.

[khamilton]

thanks, I will keep everyone updated and tell you what the results are

[Lilie]

I have a Golden Retriever who behaves in a simular way as your boy, but he isn't as aggressive. He does exhibit strange behaviors when he becomes overly stimulated. Things such as he'll drop his toy in the grass and tear all the grass out around the toy, he'll do this for 1-2 minutes. If you call him, he doesn't respond, if you physically attempt to stop him, he'll snap at you. Sometimes he'll stand very quiet and stare at the ground. This lasts for less then a minute.

If he is very excited he'll run around with his ball in his mouth, he'll bring the ball to you, when you attempt to take the ball he'll snap at you. Again, this only happens when he is overly excited brought on by outside stimulus. Other times he plays fetch with out any problems.

He is 11 years old now, I've had him since he was a puppy. In his entire life, I've seen him have 2 actual seizures. Our vet dx him with a neurological disorder. However, because it isn't severe and because I can keep him contained (we live out in the country) we've elected not to start him on meds unless it gets worse.
The vet did suggest we have him PTS when he was first dx. We made the decision to watch and wait. Again, he has no people aggression, and he welcomes any dog into 'his' back yard with out a problem. He is the alpa dog of our 'pack'.


Otherwise, he is a happy healthy senior. He has his quirks (terrified to come inside) but we've made allowances for them.

[khamilton]

Thanks for sharing. This does sound a bit like my GS with the exception of the human aggression. It's nice to know that you made it work even after the vet suggested that he be pts. I guess I will just have to wait and see what we are dealing with and see what options are available for him.

[carmspack]

am I reading this correctly (speed reading for lack of time) - you had friends come over to evaluate the dog and they got bitten? So how many bites has he had , 3 or 4?

sorry - dog . There is no way that I would keep a dog that 2% of the time is the most dangerous dog in the world . He is not safe in dog or human society .

Feel safe around him ? What if he turns on you ?

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs