reactive agression genetic or environment?

[Debbieg]

I have had Benny since he was 8 weeks old and he is now 2 1/2. Despite the socialization and work we have done he is a bit reactive and I am wondering if it is genetic or something amiss in my handling?

For example; Benny was asleep on the floor in the bedroom and my 24 yr old son came in, didn’t see him and started to step on him. In a flash Benny growled , lunged, and pinned him against the bathroom sink and nipped him . A second later Benny realized who it was and what he was doing and stopped. If my son was a small child and not a strong 24 year old serious harm could have been done.

Benny gets very excited when I am preparing his food. ( He can’t have sex so food is the next best thing .I have trained him to sit quietly and wait which he does, although he whimpers and trembles with excitement. Last week DH was preparing his food because I was at work and told me that the cat happened to rub into Benny and Benny flipped, growled, grabbed the cat and would have killed him if DH had not intervened. Benny normally gets along very well with this cat.

Yesterday I took Benny to visit my mom in the Assisted Living Facility He has been going there regularly since he was 8 weeks old. Benny was laying calmly when a very frail elderly woman came to him very slowly intending to bend down and pet him. I knew from Benny’s look that she had aroused suspicion in him and he was going to react. ( When people approach him cautiously he seems to feel threatened ,like he is being stalked). I stopped him, just as he barked and moved toward her and took him to the car. I will not be taking him there again. I feel sad that he will be left at home or in the car when I visit mom.

Benny cannot tell a threat from a non threat, and when over stimulated he acts first and thinks later and I don’t know if our continued training will change this

I love him and will focus on the things we can do such a off leash hikes, swimming and agility.I was thinking about flyball but when I took him to watch he got very amped up and I needed to create distance and use the e-collar at a high level to get him to focus . It doesn’t seem fair to put him in situations where he get so stimulated he can’t think. Like a recovered alcoholic getting a job in a bar.

Has anyone had these issues? if so what has helped?

[debbiebrown]

unfortunately it is a genetic thing and you need to except it for what it is.

i understand what your dealing with since i have a young male very similar. i also do not put him in unpredicatable situations that i know will trigger a fearful reaction. particularly situation inside in a comfined area where strangers approach him. i try to set up situations where i can control things with people he knows and people that have been instructed on how to act around him. not that you can control 100% of his meetings and in those cases i fall back on obedience and his focus on me. Say a stranger were to walk up to us and i see them coming, i would immediately either make him sit/stay and focus on me, or i might take the initiative to start walking to the person taking the lead and making a decision for him..........i find by doing that it takes the heat off him making the wrong decision. alot of insercure dogs are not comfortable with inside encounters. Sam is fine as long as new people ignore him and don't try to approach him, stare at him etc. after they have been around for a few minutes if he wants to go smell them i let him, but i still ask the people to ignore him. he has made friends with people that he sees alot, they play fetch with him give him treats etc, but he is still not comfortable with people touching him. maybe a quick pat under the chin or his back, but not anything much beyond that. he does have a tendancy to nip if he feels threatened. its a hard issues to address and it takes studying of the dog in situations to know how to handle each individual best. If Sam were to growl at someone he knows well, i do correct him and make him lay down. fear reactiveness is genetic and will always be there to some degree, but the growling and nipping is a fear response which is a learned behavior that might have worked to back people off in the past. but, taking him into an unpredictable situation is just setting him up for failure.

i work on controlled exercises all the time at training with people approaching us, us approaching people. putting him in a down stay, me walking away and having others walk up to him dropping treats and moving on. People coming up and standing beside him, sitting beside him etc. i had to laugh one day at training, one of the cops we train with walked up to him while he was in a down stay i was like 30 feet away, he looked at the cop, got up and walked away............LOL he chose to flee rather than react. Setting them up in controlled situations, different senarios over and over again does help, but you still have to understand the genetics and work from there.

[PaddyD]

I agree with Debbie: you have to accept the fact that he has weak nerves and that you have to go beyond acceptance and work with him to make him the best that he can be.

[wolfstraum]

I agree 100% that this is genetic. As you are aware of it, I believe that this dog is not a good candidate for any social - therapy work - maybe do agility or something where he is not interacting with others but always leashed or crated when not on a course...I would also feed the dog in a crate from now on so there is no possibility of another incident with the cat...

Lee

[debbiebrown]

no, a dog like this is not a good candidate for therapy work, or even taking for a visit in a nursing home, to many unpredictable things can happen. And people see a dog in a place like that, they want to pat, interact, etc. people would assume having him there he is a friendly dog and approachable.

it really is a hard personality do deal with being fearful, unsure and reacting to non-threatening things. its the hardest to work with and learn to handle and deal with. honestly anyone that has put their time in with dogs like these, its amazing how much is learned from these dogs.........granted its something non of us seek out when getting a puppy, but in choosing to keep these dogs, its our responsibility to keep them safe, do ongoing Obedience, and controlled situations, etc.............and there is no reason why you can't do an activity with dogs like these, in essence they learn to work and tune things out going on around them. Sam did agility, but his self control at sitting and watching the other dogs go through the course was not good. we had to back up and slowly expose him to that type of thing, working on his impulse control etc. What has worked absolutely beautifully is Tracking, he has taken to it, loves it, and will work no matter whats going on around him, in fact we plan on doing his TD in the spring. and this is a dog that many professional trainers said was never capable of working because of his issues..........so, many ways to help these dogs, frustrating at times, but rewarding in lots of areas..............

and i definitely agree, the dog should be fed away from the cat...

[Debbieg]

Thank you Debbie. Sam sounds a bit like Benny.

The reason I wanted to know it is genetic is so I can modify my expectations. I want Benny to reach his potential, but don't want to set us both of for misery by asking things of him that he cannot do.

Benny is good in many ways, very smart, loves to learn new things so I will focus on where he can succeed.
He has and is teaching me so much.

I plan to semi retire soon and get a new pup and I hope with the help of the forum to find one that is genetically more confident and biddable.

He actually does eat in his crate as we feed raw. The incident with the cat happened while his food was being prepared, but yes I probably need to crate him before preparing the food. When not amped up he sleeps with this cat.

[debbiebrown]

it does sound like you need to except that he has limitations in the social dept, thats the first step in helping them. i did the same with Sam, excepted him for who he was and do not expect things from him that he's not capable of with people, or situations. its kind of like having a retarded child in some ways, you always have to be on top of things, control their lives etc.........takes alot of work and patience. However, as i said above, it does not mean you have to keep him hidden from the world or not have him involved with activities etc. in my honest opinion an activity like tracking might be better.........a more laid back atmosphere, he is quietly working the track, concentrating, etc............agility just ramps them up and doesn't teach them to be calm.......i have always questioned if agility was right for reactive dogs, i guess it all depends on your goals for that particular dog etc...........i know for Sam i had to go a different route even though he was great at agility and i loved it, it wasn't helping his issues..............so, finding a positive activity is a huge step........

i hope you will find a stable pup next time, no guarentees what an 8 week old pup will be like having the best of peds, but whoever you do pick for a breeder i would look for proven litters, repeat breedings, and ask Cliff on here to research the ped, he is a wealth of information.......i will be doing the same for my next pup, although i train with a gsd breeder who comes highly recommended by Cliff, and i get to see the pups and her dogs on a regular basis, which helps alot.............and i Like what i see, stable dogs, in any inviroment/situation..........