Nipped the kitty

[kiya]

Well it's been over 2 months that we've had the new kitty and I'm at a standstill with any progress with Kiya. The only time she doesn't seem to pursue the kitten is when he's laying quietly or sleeping.
Lakota & Apache are fine with the new kitty, my other cat Misty still doesn't like him he's always trying to play with her she couldn't be bothered. Of course when she gets mad and growls or hisses ramps Kiya up.
My husband tells me she doesn't even look at the crate or kitten until I walk in the house. I started letting Mr Magoo out after dinner while I have Kiya on leash. If I gate him off in the kitchen she doesn't seem to care until he starts looking to come into the livingroom. Of course he has to walk right in front of her or run past her. If Lakota tries to play with him she starts to bark at him. So to keep the "calm" we put Lakota on leash and don't allow her to play or "follow" the kitty around. Mr Magoo has a bit of the zoomies and he's all over the place. By this time Kiya is sounding a bit aggressive with her bark, there's no changing her mood now. Before we get frazzled I take the dogs out for a potty break, put the kitten in the crate and they are done for the night.
I've thought about putting Kiya in the crate, but I don't think it's right. I found an article on the web http://www.sfgsrescue.org/articles/cat.htm
and it says:
3) The dog must accept its owner as "alpha" and take its cue on how to treat the cat(s) from the owner. The owner, however, should not be perceived as "possessing" the cat. I'm not sure what that means. I do not fuss over the kitten in front of her. I try not to show any emotion toward him that could make her jealous.
My trainer has described Kiya as "pushy". I haven't spoken to her about this "yet". I guess I didn't think it would be such an issue. In all that I have learned if there was a chance that Kiya doubted my leadership, I have tried to reestablish that although I don't take it to the extremes.

[RedCrown]

I don't know how much help I'll be with this, but you can take it with a grain of salt since a few people will likely think this is extreme.

Since you have been working with her patiently and in steps for so long and are now at a standstill, it may be time to try another method.

My GSD Friday has a tenuous relationship with our cat. She loves the kitty, but sometimes will get obsessive and love the kitty a little TOO much and get that fixative stare and follow him around. If I don't correct her, it'll escalate to snap/mouth the kitty.

I also don't allow her to fixate on the cat. If she gets stare-y I'll verbally correct her to snap her out of it. If she ignores me and starts whining at the cat- in the crate she goes.

If I don't notice the behavior escalating and all of a sudden I see her lunge toward the cat- it becomes a very sad day for Friday. She gets a "come to jesus moment" (because if she ever killed my cat, I likely would send her to Jesus). This moment includes a hellish corrective yell from myself and is accompanied by "scary mom" stomping over to her and physically take her by the collar into the crate. Yes, I know the crate is used for punishment and isolation in this circumstance, but it works and she doesn't have any crate issues. It is a relatively harmless, but big, loud, and forceful production meant to immediately associate her behavior with something scary.

She has to be reminded of this occasionally, but I feel that if we didn't have those "reminders" her behavior would escalate as she ignores me totally when she is in her obsessive mode.

[RedCrown]

I have 2 pit bulls that have no issues with the cat whatsoever. He is a big, fluffy cat that never runs, nor provokes her, nor swats.

I don't see it (and neither do the dogs, I think) as the cat as "my possession"- that is reserved for things on the coffee table that they'd better not take. The cat is his own separate entity that best be ignored, because I as mom says so. I honestly don't think it needs to go any deeper into the dog's psyche- they had best behave nicely, and if they emotionally or physically can't, then they get separated from the situation. I think that if you start using the crate for isolation immediately after your dog starts ignoring the "leave it" command, she will start to get the picture that harassing the kitty = separation from kitty AND family. It doesn't seem like she's had any negative reinforcement for this behavior, and it seems warranted at this point.

[kiya]

Originally Posted by RedCrown

they had best behave nicely, and if they emotionally or physically can't, then they get separated from the situation. I think that if you start using the crate for isolation immediately after your dog starts ignoring the "leave it" command, she will start to get the picture that harassing the kitty = separation from kitty AND family. It doesn't seem like she's had any negative reinforcement for this behavior, and it seems warranted at this point.

Normally once out of the puppy stage, I don't crate, but whenever the crate comes out all the dogs seem totally fine and periodically they will go inside of thier own free will. Since the crate has been converted to a cat crate, I took the litter box & bed out the other morning, asked Kiya to go in, no problem gave her a chewy she was happy. Laid there chewing, kitty was loose. All was fine till he started running around, Kiya started acting up. So I was glad she accepted the crate but thier was no way to stop her pawing and barking thru the crate. I will try a cover over it next time. Usually I stay calm and remove her from the room when she barks at the kitten in the crate. I put her in our sunroom but I have to block the glass door because she pounds the door. All I need is for her to bust the glass door.
Last night, I put the kitty in the kitchen with the gate up. Kiya was laying right there, for a while, then the second she barked I got up put the leash on and made her down by me. All was fine until the kitty decided he didn't want to stay in the kitchen by himself. My other dog, Lakota wants to play but that just triggers Kiya, so I put her on leash as well and hubby held her.
We actually ended up sitting quietly for at least an hour before I ended the session (on a good note). The kitty doesn't help because he comes up close to her, almost taunting.
I never had an animal not accept another in my house, normally after the first week or two life resumes as normal. Hubby is really starting to loose his patients (he doesn't have much to begin with). I told him I am doing everything I possibly can.
As far as the tone of voice, I can sound pretty bad, but when she goes into that state of mind it doesn't phase her. Her nick name is "Tank" specially since her hind end is weak she compensates with her front end.
I have contimplated trying a muzzle on her, she doesn't like it but will tolerate it. I know they can come off, I wouldn't give her an opportunity, I have the plastic basket type & the nylon one. My fear is she'll smush the kitty. I have to make more liver brownies, thats the only thing that breaks her fixating. I'm not giving up the kitty, so there's no option but to get thru to her or deal with management.

[RedCrown]

I guess I should have specified that our dog crates are located in the garage. True isolation from the comings and goings of the house. Confinement where she can still see the kitty and your other dog playing might only frustrate her and not enable her to understand the reason for her separation.

I think a muzzle is a good idea. A bit of negative reinforcement for her, and reassurance that she won't at least be able to chomp the kitty.

[kiya]

We have a small house, the crate is in the livingroom now. So the sunroom is my only option for isolation. Theres no heat in there so it's almost like being outside. As long as I cover the glass sliding door with a sheet so she can't see inside, when she settles down I wait a little then I bring her back in.
I have noticed a few times when all of us come in from a potty trip she doen't always have to charge the crate. I praise her for that.
Over the weekend I will try the muzzle a little.

[Bismarck]

i have a rescue dog, a foster dog, and 2 cats.

pecking order is

me > cats > dogs

for the first month/s dogs are crated. cats are allowed to roam. ANY peaked interest in the cat is met with firm corrections (mine correct fine verbally, you may have to leave a leash on them and have it come out of hte crate.
cats are very much the weaker, and have to be above the dogs in the pecking order, and it's up to you to ensure that cats safety.
sounds like your dogs are competing for your attentions and don't want the cats to have it. you have to make sure they understand that they will receive very strict, and firm corrections should they try and get your attention when you have the cat.
again, the cat > dog. it has to be that way for the cats safety.

[kiya]

We started leaving the kitten free at night about 2 weeks ago. Since Kiya is confined between the wall and my side of the bed we tried it out. No problem. It was funny the kitten was under the bed and Kiya didn't know untill after I put the gate up. At least he knows where she is when the lights go off. So last week we took the crate down, this saturday I put it back in the basement!
I still don't trust Kiya and have to be on top on her every move, but I can say that for the most part peace & harmony has been restored to our house! Hubby is thrilled that the crate is out of the livingroom.
Kitty is enjoying sleeping in our bed at night.