Blind Mother attacking Son

[Akrasia]

Looking to see if anyone has advice to give here as it's starting to get out of hand. We have two German shepherds, the mother, Grace is about 7 years old. We also have her son, Jack and he's about 4 years old and he is neutered. Grace was bred only the one time and we've had her since she was born as well. The problem is that she is blind in both eyes (it's a type of non-genetic disease shepherds can get, can't remember the name but it acts like cataracts).

Recently she has been attacking Jack and there has been little we can do to stop her. Jack can be a nuisance and will bite an nip at her ears and face. We've tried to discourage this behavior as well but he doesn't seem to understand punishment all too well. We'll lock him up and separate the two but he is still a pest at times. We have had to take away all tennis balls and the like or they will fight over them. Jack because he wants whatever Grace has, and Grace because she is sick of being pestered.

However it gets dangerous when Grace gets mad, normally it is something small that ticks her off. I've seen it happen where Jack actually hurt her with a nip to the ear and then she turns on him. We can yell and kick but they continue to fight, spraying them with the hose doesn't do much to help either (both are outside dogs, we have a bit over an acre with horses and the like). Thankfully no humans have been bitten, and from what I can tell its a big dominance issue for Grace, that and she may feel threaten since she can't see well. The safest thing we've been able to do is get someone to help and then yank them away by grabbing their tails and putting them in separate horse trailers. Within minutes we can let them both out and they seem happy as ever.

Those fights used to happen maybe once a month, but we've run into another problem now. We have been looking after my sister's dog while she is away with her husband on a cruise. Booker is a friendly mutt that weighs about 40lbs (I would put Jack at 100lbs and grace more near 80lbs). Well Booker is just playful and neither Grace nor Jack has gone after him. Booker is submissive and playful so there hasn't been much a problem. However when Booker misbehaves and I correct him Jack feels the need to step in and show dominance. He doesn't fight or bite, just puts is tail up and the like.

Grace does not like this and immediately turns on Jack when this happens, ensue the big fight that hoses cannot break up. Then again tonight we had someone delivering pellets for the horses. Booker was scared of the guy because he was walking with big bags on his shoulders, so he kept barking and bouncing around. I noticed Grace getting tense so I was about to put Booker in the house. I was too late, and had to grab Grace by the scruff of her neck. I was trying to drag her away but she was growling and trying to get at Jack again.

Jack kept his head and tail low but he walked towards us, I kept dragging grace away remaining calm and trying to get her into one of the trailers before she could get Jack. Well she slipped away and went after him. Jack won't submit and since he's bigger she gets him pinned. Thankfully the guy delivering pellets was there to help out and we pulled them apart using the tail method. I was able to shepherd Jack into the trailer and put Grace elsewhere. Now I know the third dog is definitely reason for the fights to start, but I don't see him as the main problem.

So does anyone have any advice on what to do? Is it because both our dogs are trying to be dominant and don't look to us as the authority? Or is it simply because Grace is scared and blind? I have never seen Jack iniciate one of the big fights, but he does aggravate Grace often. Not sure where to go at this point. They spend all day outside (we've got a pretty nice setup for them actually) and normally coexist just fine, but we can't deal with these fights. No one has been bitten and neither of the dogs have gotten more than a small cut on the nose or ear, but it's dangerous.

TL: DR Grace is 7 years old and blind from something much like cataracts. Jack is her 4 year old son. She is about 80lbs Jack is about 100lbs and they both live outside. At times Grace will attack Jack when he is acting dominant towards another dog of if the situation is tense.

[doggiedad]

the immediate fix is keep them seperated.

[fg2chase]

My male GSD Panzer is 8 months old and he does this to Molly (4yo) as well. Bites her ears and face and tries to get a rise out of her, every now and then Molly will flip the **** out and bark like crazy and pin him down by the throat then she will release and go back to whatever she was doing.

Sometimes she plays along I guess it depends on what kind of mood shes in.

[Akrasia]

Most of the time they're fine, but another thing that is common is when I'm outside Jack loves to have all the attention. Grace has never cared for being bet like he does. Still when she comes over to say hi he likes to get in the way and block her. Normally I'll make him stay out of the way and give her the attention she wants but then she whines and goes off on her way.

Keeping them separate is tricky. Thing is, when they're apart they want to know where the other one is. Jack isn't housebroken but Grace is. When she's inside however all she wants is to go back outside. Suppose we could make an area for each them, but they really do hate being apart, Jack especially does not like to leave Grace.

[KSdogowner]

Originally Posted by Akrasia

Most of the time they're fine, but another thing that is common is when I'm outside Jack loves to have all the attention. Grace has never cared for being bet like he does. Still when she comes over to say hi he likes to get in the way and block her. Normally I'll make him stay out of the way and give her the attention she wants but then she whines and goes off on her way.

Keeping them separate is tricky. Thing is, when they're apart they want to know where the other one is. Jack isn't housebroken but Grace is. When she's inside however all she wants is to go back outside. Suppose we could make an area for each them, but they really do hate being apart, Jack especially does not like to leave Grace.

I am thinking Grace getting blind causes her to be more sensitive and less tolerant. Is there any way laser surgery could remove the caterac (sp) like substance from her eyes? Not sure there are surgeries like that for dogs but thought it may be something worth checking into. So, she may be relying more on you to keep Jack from pestering her. If you can't keep them separate, I would keep a watchful eye on both watching for body language, to catch any inappropriate signals before a reaction from Grace happens.

[BowWowMeow]

Does Grace have pannus? Have you treated her? It is often reversible with treatment.

[Akrasia]

Just found out recently that she does have it, and yes I do believe Pannus is the correct term for it. The vet gave us some drops to use for her eyes so we're hoping that it will hope clear up her vision. She doesn't care for it, but if it helps keep her from being blind it'll be worth it. We were told it wasn't curable, but we could treat it with those drops for the rest of her life and as long as we get those it should hopefully clear up.

You have any advice for dealing with Pannus? I'm hoping that if she can see better she won't get so tense as easily. I've realized that I'm learning to see when her playfulness is turning to aggression. Both of the recent times I've known before the attack has happened that it would occur. So any advice at getting her away from Jack quickly? If I tell him to get away it just raises her tenseness, and he likes to follow me around. Suppose I'll just have to be quick and have a family member quickly take him away as well. I have a younger sister and my parents around as well. I find that the dogs normally don't attack unless I'm around, and I think that's because my other family members simply ignore them. Wondering if I need to try and keep calm around them instead of playing with Jack. Sorry for rambling on.

[KZoppa]

you've got the drops for the pannus so definitely use them and keep up with regular vet visits and rechecks.

When they do fight, dont pull their tails. You'll only tick them off further. Instead grab their back legs and seperate them that way. They'll usually stop what they're doing and let go when you snatch up those back legs. Just remember to keep backing up so they cant whip around and bite you too.

[BowWowMeow]

There are many people on this board with gsds with pannus. My first gsd had pannus and it took 7 years (using drops) for her to lose her vision and even then she could still see peripherally. It is painful for some dogs and that may also be part of the reason you are seeing more aggression.

Sunlight causes the disease to advance more quickly and is probably quite painful. I would move the dog with pannus into the house and only let her out supervised and limit her outside time, especially in direct sunlight.

I think the best advice is to keep the dogs completely separated before one or both of them gets badly injured. Generally once dogs start fighting it tends to escalate.

[wolfstraum]

Yes - sunlight will escalate the effects of Pannus...it is treatable and controlable, but she is probably very uncomfortable.

I have had a couple of pseudo fights over goodies - food, toy...between my now 10+ year old male and a female....She goes after him and you'd think she was killing him...!!!! Nothing much on him at all - just a dominance thing...lots of white foamy spit flying, maybe a little nick or two...I KNOW she is capable of inflicting severe damage if she wants (had a bitch fight or two !!) but this is just pack order....it looks HORRIBLE! Scary....if Grace is not really causing bigtime damage to Jack, I think it MAY be more a dominance thing....he really does not fight back either - acknowledges her as the dominant dog!!! He will try to get away from her rather than fighting back!

But the Pannus and treatment is IMO the issue you need to focus on the most so that Grace is more comfortable!!!

Lee