Advice Please! Jekyl and Hyde dog-serious behavior issues-First time poster- LONG

[jflo53]

Originally Posted by AbbyK9

Did you send your dog to Leerburg for training?

Honestly, I don't think that some of the advice you've listed above is bad advice.

It's a good idea to keep your dog kenneled or crated when you're not home until you can trust them to be loose in the house safely without getting into mischief. It helps keep the dog and your home safe and prevents you from coming home to that $2,000 vet bill you'd have to pay if the dog chews up and ingests your pillows.

And yes, I agree with the trainer that dog parks are generally a bad idea. I think you'll find that very few experienced dog owners think dog parks are great - especially since the majority of dog parks have no supervision, allow big and small dogs to play together, and often are used by a lot of ignorant owners who see nothing wrong with their dogs' aggressive behaviors toward other dogs. Just check out some of the dog-park-related threads on this forum and you'll see why they're not a good idea.

Overall, I think your dog absolutely does not get enough exercise. Playing fetch is great, but that's only 10 to 15 minutes of exercise in the day. Shepherds are an athletic, energetic breed - they need more than 15 minutes of playing ball and walks every other day. That amount just doesn't cut it.

I also think you've received some very bad information from trainers in the past regarding your resource guarding behaviors, and I honestly think that most of the aggressive behaviors you're seeing are resource guarding behaviors.

I would go back a couple of steps and begin at the bottom. Start by hand-feeding your dog his kibble instead of putting down the bowl, and using (and reinforcing) NILIF for everything throughout the day by having him do things in order to get things - like having to sit before he gets to go out the door, for example.

I think the rug idea is actually a very good training method - it's essentially a boundary stay and it can be very helpful to have a place to send your dog (and have him stay there) when you need him to be out from underfoot, for example. I use the boundary stay with my dog when we're eating or when we have guests over and I don't want her to bother them. There's absolutely a valid use for it. Not so much as a "time out" but as a way to set your dog up to do well.

Overall, I think where I would go from here, aside from going back to basics as mentioned above, would be to find a behaviorist to work with, NOT a trainer, to get an evaluation of the behavior and suggestions on how to manage them.

At this point, I would absolutely agree that your dog is a danger to your child and the two of them should never be alone unsupervised, and you should be especially careful having your child around your dog's food, toys, treats, etc.

Thank you for the comments. I will add that he does wait and sit by the door before going out, he does sit on the rug as well when we eat, and he will sit on the rug when I bring visitors into the house. He did benefit from that in the training too. I guess I was so frustrated that I forgot to mention the good things that he does do well.

You are right, I would never leave him alone with her. And when they are near each other, I am right there, to make sure he is not reacting negatively towards her.

When he nipped the roofer, he was on one of his rugs, which is near his food (that he hadn't eaten yet), when we walked past is when he growled (not sure if the roofer knew or heard it) and I gave him his "feedback" by grabbing his collar, and that is when the roofer went to pet him and Oliver turned and got him. This makes me think for sure that it has a lot to do with resource guarding.

Going to seek out a behaviorist and already implementing NILIF and reading Mind Games. Thank you very much

[jflo53]

Originally Posted by codmaster

I think "alpha" definetly works when done appropriately. I.E. means that I am in charge and you (the dog) does what I tell him to do when i tell him to do it.
Definetly doesn't mean that I hurt the dog in any way - just that I enforce whatever i tell him to do and am consistent and fair.

As far as "setting him up for failure:, THAT is exactly what needs to be done but only once you are absolutely convinced that your dog knows what is expected of him. I.E. teach him the "sit" ommand at home or in the back yard and with you right next to him. Once he really knows it and does it consistently in these low stress and low distraction environments (hence he "knows" it); THEN we introduce an increasing level of distractions (people, dogs, environment and slowly increase the distance between you and him). VERY gradually and one thing at a time we put more distractions in and if we do a good job - VOILA! we end up with a dog who will obey under almost any situation!

If we never "set him up with the opportunity to fail" then we don't know if he will obey under varying situations and we have not completed the training in my mind. BTW, this approach is called "Proofing" and to my mind is an absolute necessity!

This is where we have lacked in our responsibility. We have done some tests situations and when we did, he did well. However, we never really had the time to continue to increas the situations and challenge him further. It's tough, but we are going to work on it!

[jflo53]

Originally Posted by wyominggrandma

If he is so quick with his personalities, then your baby is liable to get bit if she touches the dog at the wrong time, crawls by him and sets him off, etc.

I worry about your baby.

Me too, that is why I am trying to make him a better dog as best I can. I want to trust him more than I do. We are going to work hard on him.

[jflo53]

Originally Posted by sashadog

I would agree 100% about the exercise thing although I do know how difficult it can be with a new baby in the house as well. That is where the mind games will help tire him out without pushing you too much.

Ideally though, the more you can get him out for some physical exercise, the easier the training will be. It's also in incredible way to rebuild his trust in you. Walks are great opportunities to take a bag of treats and tire him out while rewarding calm and trusting behavior. Plus, I always seem to relax on walks, which the dogs really seem to appreciate

Good luck and I would also second the many suggestions for finding a better trainer!! Keep us posted!

Thank you! I will try to update weekly. I love walking with him, and in the summer it was almost daily. But as it gets colder, it gets harder to take the baby out with us.

[jflo53]

So started around the same time. Makes sense. Well now you have a secret weapon, so to speak... High value treats require him to perform to get them. Make him sit, shake, stay, whatever, give the treat and let him have it. As far as toys, maybe different story, since he likely won't "drop" it? Does he growl/fight you when you want to take the high value toy away?

Not so much the toys, but the bones definitely (so no more bones!). Any advice for that?



I don't want to come off as offensive! at all! but it so sounds like due to some really rotten training advice, you've been kinda hijacked. Start over. I know you've spent a lot of money, but if you can afford to, I'd put more money into this and get a solid trainer who doesn't treat you like an idiot. Make sure they understand the history.
I don't find it offensive, I am looking for help and answers. I did feel cheated by both the trainers I worked wiht.


Oh and PS - 15 minutes of exercise every other day is just not even close, not even in the stratosphere, of what that dog needs for exercise. Again, not trying to be offensive, but it just isn't even vaguely close.
He does get more than 15 minutes every other day. He gets a long walk at least every other day. He gets play time in the yard with me, probably twice a day, for a total of 20 minutes. You are right, he needs more daily walks. I need my husband to help with too.

[jflo53]

Originally Posted by doggiedad

even with the issues you're having with your dog
doesn't mean he won't make a good family dog.
you'll probably have to watch him closely when you
have guest and tell your guest not to touch him.
when you have guest put the dog somewhere
so he's not in contact with your guest. i don't
agree with you about dogs initiating contact.
i think that's one way they communicate with us.
i hope everything works out for you and your dog.
stick with the training.

Thank you, thank you! I have thought of this too. We are going to try and make him a better dog. However, I have to say I have thought of everything you just said. I don't want to give up. I hear of many people that have some jerks for dogs, but they need love too. However, if I have to rehome him down the road for safety, it might be what happens.

[jflo53]

Originally Posted by Debbieg

definitely agree. Things happen so quickly and as the baby gets older the dog may see the child differently.
The links Debbie posted are great and I also think more exercise is needed. Even on my 12 hour work days Benny gets a 3 mile training/walk in the am and 30 minutes of play in the evening. He gets a lot more Fri- Sun when I am off.

Maybe someone from the forum in your area could recommend a good trainer.

You are both right. I will look into the local forum, thank you.

[jflo53]

Originally Posted by Cassidy's Mom

Here you go: Aggression over high value food and bones.

Establishing Dominance

want to understand and become a better pack leader

How do you define "being alpha"....

Thanks! I will check them out

[RebelGSD]

It is easier to get the dog tired with fetching than with walking alone. A good dog is a tired dog. The dog is tired when the tongue is hanging out on the side, down to the ground. Twenty minutes a day won't do or a young dog.
I would be careful with behaviorists too. They are like trainers, some are good, others are not. I have heard some expensive behaviorists in my area recommending putting dogs down for aggression issues that we in rescue regularly deal with successfully.
Some fifteen years ago I adopted a dog that turned out to be people aggressive. The behaviorist who came out told me to teach the dog to stop attacking people when I ring a little bell (like the one on a Christmas tree). She forgot to explain how I teach that. She told my vet that the dog should take antidepressants. She charged me $400 for the one one- hour visit 15 years ago. I have to admit that lost respect for behaviorists and I prefer trainers. What I am trying to say is that are bad ones among both. And there are too many who don't understand the nature of a working dog.