Intensity with a baby

TheNamesNelson · 09-23-2011, 09:45 PM

So I'll start off by saying that my boy Apollo has never previously been an aggressive dog, he is very people friendly and perhaps even too friendly with strangers. He grew up around many children and my nieces love playing with him in the yard. He has also been around a 6 month old child and he didn't pay it any attention except for one time he was walking by the child on the floor and he licked right across her the top of head and kept going.

Now for tonight's behavior. Seeing as how good Apollo has been around people and children my wife and I decided to have our friends over for dinner. They have a little 5 month old boy and he is a very quite and relaxed baby, even so I was very vigilant and always keeping him in check because I wanted them to be comfortable. We had Apollo out around the house before dinner and he was being a very good dog, he would rub against the adults and seek a little attention but once he was told to lay down he went and laid on the other side of the room. When we ate dinner our friends put their little baby in a baby chair on the ground, so I separated Apollo into the other side of the living room and he mostly laid down, and once and a while he would watch us but he was very relaxed with his chin resting on the couch.

After dinner our friend had his baby boy in his arms and he was looking at Apollo and talking to his baby like "Look at the doggy" Apollo was watching for a minute but then his stare became very intense (Ears focused, eyes unflinching), he was still laying at this point. That intensity only lasted a couple seconds and then he went to the sitting position and let out a deep bark all while still very intensely focused. The moment was quick and as soon as I recognized it and was correcting it but the bark still occurred. I told him no and made him lay down at my feet and I controlled him.

The intensity wouldn't go away at that point. I was making him lay while I was looming over him and he was fighting to keep his face focused on the child and dad. I removed him from the room and made him change focus for a bit. I brought him back in a few minutes later, but this time I had him controlled so he wasn't able to move away from me. I wanted to see if he would still exhibit the behavior but I made sure I had his collar. My wife had taken to holding the baby now and Apollo was still watching but he didn't have the same intensity. Suddenly he let out another bark and I made him lay on his side with his head on the ground and corrected him when he tried to look anywhere.

It wasn't a ghastly ordeal visually for the group, I wasn't being overly aggressive and making a scene, I was just sitting in a chair and controlling him while the conversation continued to go on. But his bark did spook the parents and I wasn't about to let him go from me after that. This behavior is not OK and he has never displayed unprovoked intensity at children (especially ones who were quiet and motionless like this baby).

The only time I can recall him having that intensity and bark was at the ice cream place one day. A lady was walking up behind me and she was bent over and just staring at Apollo. He saw her and her movement and focus was suspect and she was clearly homing in on us so he let out a woof and stared her down as if she was a criminal. I corrected him then too but I found his reaction in that situation to be more provoked because she was creeping me out aswell.

What do I do about this? Any advice?

Stevenzachsmom · 09-23-2011, 10:06 PM

Are you sure the intensity was aimed at the baby, or was it the father's behavior, while holding the baby? You say the father was looking at your dog, while talking to the baby. I imagine he was talking to the baby in an animated voice? Perhaps your dog felt all this attention was focused on him and it made him confused or uncomfortable.

I do agree you want to distract and refocus your dog. Definitely break that intensity. I might have just removed the dog from the room and not brought him back. I never want a dog to associate anything negative with a child, so I would be reluctant to be too hard on the dog, while the baby was present.

Ava · 09-23-2011, 10:19 PM

Wow, I hate this for you. Prey drive kicking in??? Has he been around infants before? How do you socialize with infants to help with this? I'm sorry but I don't have anything to help with this one, other than than obvious which you've already done. You should at least feel good about yourself recognizing the behavior and taking appropriate action. Too many people would have ignored it or handled it the wrong way. Wish I had something to offer, someone probably will.

Jack's Dad · 09-23-2011, 10:29 PM

This is just my thing but I won't take a chance with other peoples children.
I do agree that the response could have been to the dad.
The problem is that things can happen very quickly. What if you had not observed his behavior.
Your own family is up to you but GSD's or big dogs in general could do much damage to a baby in an instant.
Not worth it to me.

msvette2u · 09-23-2011, 10:33 PM

If it's critical he interact with kids and especially babies, I've heard/seen that sometimes starting with a toy doll can help but have no personal experience with that.

However, check this site out --- Dogs&Storks Dog and Baby Safety

Stevenzachsmom · 09-23-2011, 10:44 PM

I guess I am stuck on the part that you said Apollo walked by a 6 month old, licked the baby on the head and kept going. In that situation, there was no focus on Apollo. The baby was just there. In the second scenario - with the 5 month old, the father was drawing all of Apollo's attention to himself and the baby. I think that was a mistake on his part.

Regardless, I do agree with Andy. It isn't worth the risk to have Apollo and the baby together. Sorry I don't have more to offer.

sit,stay · 09-24-2011, 11:40 AM

Was your friend making direct eye contact with Apollo while he was holding the baby and talking with the baby about Apollo? It might be that the direct eye contact, in addition to the baby being held and "directed" at Apollo, was enough to cause him concern.

It sounds like socializing in controlled situations will help Apollo take it in stride. Mix it up a little. Expose him to babies being held and wearing funny hats and babies in play saucers and bouncy seats, etc. Keep him on leash (nice and loose, but there and ready to redirect if needed) and tons of high value treats and lots of praise for appropriate behavior.
Sheilah

idahospud49 · 09-24-2011, 12:32 PM

I agree, if the dad was staring at Apollo and directing everything towards him, then that is probably what set him off. That is a lot of focus geared toward the dog from someone that is not his family.

Jack's Dad · 09-24-2011, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sit,stay

It sounds like socializing in controlled situations will help Apollo take it in stride. Mix it up a little. Expose him to babies being held and wearing funny hats and babies in play saucers and bouncy seats, etc. Keep him on leash (nice and loose, but there and ready to redirect if needed) and tons of high value treats and lots of praise for appropriate behavior.
Sheilah

I generally like your posts Sheilah but have a little problem with the above.

My kids are all grown now but when they were babies or very small children I would not have let them be the training tool or guinea pig for someones dog that needed training.
It's not like the dog overcoming it's fear of vacum cleaners or something.
Even though you said controlled setting, good luck finding parents who will let their babies be training devices.

TheNamesNelson · 09-24-2011, 07:52 PM

He has been around children and ignored them, and he has been around other parents holding their babies and he ignores them. The dad was making eye contact with him right before he became intense though; I noticed this as well. The parents aren't big dog people and aren't totally comfortable with dogs so its totally possible that he picked up on that and was reacting to the parent more, but its too sensitive to rely on that and forget about it.

I don't feel uncomfortable with having him around my other friends with their babies though leashed obviously. One of my good friends happened to be my roommate when I got Apollo and he is a big dog person and has known Apollo since he was a pup. they get along great. Since then he has had a daughter and we no longer live together but he has held his daughter and Apollo smelled her foot then ran off to play ball.

I think it would be safe to have Apollo leashed around him and his daughter though. I wouldn't call it some experiment with other peoples childrens safety as long as he remains leashed and at the appropriate distance he is totally under my control. I dont think Sheilah was suggesting that I let him loose in a daycare or have him leashed with loose kids running around in range.

Clearly this is a serious situation that needs to be addressed but putting safety as number one priority. I'm just upset that I even have to worry about it now.

09-23-2011, 09:45 PM	#1 (permalink)
TheNamesNelson Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Michigan Posts: 204	Intensity with a baby So I'll start off by saying that my boy Apollo has never previously been an aggressive dog, he is very people friendly and perhaps even too friendly with strangers. He grew up around many children and my nieces love playing with him in the yard. He has also been around a 6 month old child and he didn't pay it any attention except for one time he was walking by the child on the floor and he licked right across her the top of head and kept going. Now for tonight's behavior. Seeing as how good Apollo has been around people and children my wife and I decided to have our friends over for dinner. They have a little 5 month old boy and he is a very quite and relaxed baby, even so I was very vigilant and always keeping him in check because I wanted them to be comfortable. We had Apollo out around the house before dinner and he was being a very good dog, he would rub against the adults and seek a little attention but once he was told to lay down he went and laid on the other side of the room. When we ate dinner our friends put their little baby in a baby chair on the ground, so I separated Apollo into the other side of the living room and he mostly laid down, and once and a while he would watch us but he was very relaxed with his chin resting on the couch. After dinner our friend had his baby boy in his arms and he was looking at Apollo and talking to his baby like "Look at the doggy" Apollo was watching for a minute but then his stare became very intense (Ears focused, eyes unflinching), he was still laying at this point. That intensity only lasted a couple seconds and then he went to the sitting position and let out a deep bark all while still very intensely focused. The moment was quick and as soon as I recognized it and was correcting it but the bark still occurred. I told him no and made him lay down at my feet and I controlled him. The intensity wouldn't go away at that point. I was making him lay while I was looming over him and he was fighting to keep his face focused on the child and dad. I removed him from the room and made him change focus for a bit. I brought him back in a few minutes later, but this time I had him controlled so he wasn't able to move away from me. I wanted to see if he would still exhibit the behavior but I made sure I had his collar. My wife had taken to holding the baby now and Apollo was still watching but he didn't have the same intensity. Suddenly he let out another bark and I made him lay on his side with his head on the ground and corrected him when he tried to look anywhere. It wasn't a ghastly ordeal visually for the group, I wasn't being overly aggressive and making a scene, I was just sitting in a chair and controlling him while the conversation continued to go on. But his bark did spook the parents and I wasn't about to let him go from me after that. This behavior is not OK and he has never displayed unprovoked intensity at children (especially ones who were quiet and motionless like this baby). The only time I can recall him having that intensity and bark was at the ice cream place one day. A lady was walking up behind me and she was bent over and just staring at Apollo. He saw her and her movement and focus was suspect and she was clearly homing in on us so he let out a woof and stared her down as if she was a criminal. I corrected him then too but I found his reaction in that situation to be more provoked because she was creeping me out aswell. What do I do about this? Any advice?

09-23-2011, 10:19 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ava Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Alabama Posts: 122	Wow, I hate this for you. Prey drive kicking in??? Has he been around infants before? How do you socialize with infants to help with this? I'm sorry but I don't have anything to help with this one, other than than obvious which you've already done. You should at least feel good about yourself recognizing the behavior and taking appropriate action. Too many people would have ignored it or handled it the wrong way. Wish I had something to offer, someone probably will. __________________ Steve Ava's Pedigree

09-23-2011, 10:29 PM	#4 (permalink)
Jack's Dad Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: California Posts: 1,351	This is just my thing but I won't take a chance with other peoples children. I do agree that the response could have been to the dad. The problem is that things can happen very quickly. What if you had not observed his behavior. Your own family is up to you but GSD's or big dogs in general could do much damage to a baby in an instant. Not worth it to me. __________________ Andy

09-24-2011, 12:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
idahospud49 Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Linden, Arizona Posts: 1,690	I agree, if the dad was staring at Apollo and directing everything towards him, then that is probably what set him off. That is a lot of focus geared toward the dog from someone that is not his family. __________________ Megan Amadeus 1/13/2003-10/20/2010 RIP Glock 1/25/2011

09-23-2011, 10:06 PM	#2 (permalink)
Stevenzachsmom Knighted Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maryland Posts: 2,493	Are you sure the intensity was aimed at the baby, or was it the father's behavior, while holding the baby? You say the father was looking at your dog, while talking to the baby. I imagine he was talking to the baby in an animated voice? Perhaps your dog felt all this attention was focused on him and it made him confused or uncomfortable. I do agree you want to distract and refocus your dog. Definitely break that intensity. I might have just removed the dog from the room and not brought him back. I never want a dog to associate anything negative with a child, so I would be reluctant to be too hard on the dog, while the baby was present.

09-23-2011, 10:33 PM	#5 (permalink)
msvette2u Crowned Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Beautiful Pacific NW Posts: 5,497	If it's critical he interact with kids and especially babies, I've heard/seen that sometimes starting with a toy doll can help but have no personal experience with that. However, check this site out --- Dogs&Storks Dog and Baby Safety

09-23-2011, 10:44 PM	#6 (permalink)
Stevenzachsmom Knighted Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maryland Posts: 2,493	I guess I am stuck on the part that you said Apollo walked by a 6 month old, licked the baby on the head and kept going. In that situation, there was no focus on Apollo. The baby was just there. In the second scenario - with the 5 month old, the father was drawing all of Apollo's attention to himself and the baby. I think that was a mistake on his part. Regardless, I do agree with Andy. It isn't worth the risk to have Apollo and the baby together. Sorry I don't have more to offer.

09-24-2011, 11:40 AM	#7 (permalink)
sit,stay Knighted Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,055	Was your friend making direct eye contact with Apollo while he was holding the baby and talking with the baby about Apollo? It might be that the direct eye contact, in addition to the baby being held and "directed" at Apollo, was enough to cause him concern. It sounds like socializing in controlled situations will help Apollo take it in stride. Mix it up a little. Expose him to babies being held and wearing funny hats and babies in play saucers and bouncy seats, etc. Keep him on leash (nice and loose, but there and ready to redirect if needed) and tons of high value treats and lots of praise for appropriate behavior. Sheilah

09-24-2011, 07:52 PM	#10 (permalink)
TheNamesNelson Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Michigan Posts: 204	He has been around children and ignored them, and he has been around other parents holding their babies and he ignores them. The dad was making eye contact with him right before he became intense though; I noticed this as well. The parents aren't big dog people and aren't totally comfortable with dogs so its totally possible that he picked up on that and was reacting to the parent more, but its too sensitive to rely on that and forget about it. I don't feel uncomfortable with having him around my other friends with their babies though leashed obviously. One of my good friends happened to be my roommate when I got Apollo and he is a big dog person and has known Apollo since he was a pup. they get along great. Since then he has had a daughter and we no longer live together but he has held his daughter and Apollo smelled her foot then ran off to play ball. I think it would be safe to have Apollo leashed around him and his daughter though. I wouldn't call it some experiment with other peoples childrens safety as long as he remains leashed and at the appropriate distance he is totally under my control. I dont think Sheilah was suggesting that I let him loose in a daycare or have him leashed with loose kids running around in range. Clearly this is a serious situation that needs to be addressed but putting safety as number one priority. I'm just upset that I even have to worry about it now.

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