Interested in opinions over...

[e.rigby]

... this behavior and the possible solutions and outcomes.

dogs fighting over a stick - YouTube

So the video is of two dogs (who, for the purpose of this discussion we'll assume do not know each other and just met at a dog park) are competing for a stick.

Because of the rigid body posturing, head posturing, the type of tail wagging, the eye contact, the growling it would seem that they are not 'playing' with each other.

If one of these dogs were to win it is possible a fight would break out to regain control of the stick.

What would you do? Would you allow the dogs to compete over the resource? Would you allow them to fight (considering the fight isn't serious) to work it out? Or would you attempt to break them up immediately? How would you break them up? We'll assume neither dog can not be called off the object (so also, for future knowledge, how would you go about working with a dog to relinquish such an object when in direct competition with another dog?)

I've seen dogs 'fight/compete' like this over a stick before, and I've seen it end with one dog getting his ear torn up (because ears seem to always get torn when you have a scruff fight :P). My biggest interest comes in just how do you fix/stop this kind of behavior? Is it able to be modified? Especially when you have so many different variables...

When I talk to other trainers, their solution is to completely avoid situations where these issues will arise... and if a dog is going to behave this way, that dog should not be around other dogs because something bad might happen... well, is there a way to make a dog 'safe' enough to be around other dogs by working on being able to call him off the object. The problem with teaching a drop it or leave it is the inability to practice in this specific situation. A dog with a good "drop it" command is going to be highly unlikely to comply while in the middle of conflict... so how would you proof the behavior to make it so solid the dog would defer to the command over the conflict with the other dog?

I hope I explained what I'm asking well enough. I guess I'm hardheaded and unwilling to accept that such dogs are 'unchangeable'

The Aussie that started a fight with my dog is a dog that would compete over a stick/ball/toy and I have a friend with a Golden that does the same.. in fact, her dog will try to take a stick from another dog just because it can and then it will just drop the stick once it wins it... but if the other dog doesn't relinquish the stick you get a pissing match and two like personalities often lead to a fight. It's kind of hard to ensure there are no sticks in the woods while on offleash hikes :P

Thanks guys :P

[CarrieJ]

That video due to my computer makes it hard quite to view it as my box is old.
That being said, I'm not sure that you can do anything with a random dog that you run into walking off leash. With your personal dogs, you can use every opportunity to "proof" a Leave it or a Drop it; also the leadership role of the human plays a huge role.
For example in this video, you can see the potential for violence, I can see the potential for redirection if you come up the wrong way and take/claim the stick from the competing dogs. The humans voice on the video is laughing saying "give it rest..." Not quite the leadership role that I'd put myself in.
But in my opinion, I'd probably intervene at some point assuming that these dogs didn't know each other. I doubt that I'd let it get started. Say if the black and white was my dog...and looked at the stick, I'd say Leave it and expect the dog to do it. If the dog did not, on goes the leash and with a firm "lets go" walk away. It's not leeeeeeve it, leeeeve it? Leave it!Fluffy....leaave it!....it's once; especially in this type of situation. I don't know Brownie the dog and what it's allowed to do.

I'm not a trainer but I work in pack environment sometimes up to nine hours a day. Competition and dominance are part of a dog's world. To manage it we attempt to reduce the competition as much as possible.
The dogs that usually have the worst (and I say usually because it's not a rule carved in stone) guarding issues and competion are the herding groups. They are bred to manage/control environments.
When I see: say a Golden or a Lab (and I have) have "over the top" redirection or guarding issues I tend to look to the owners and figure that they have created the leadership role for the dog and not the human.
How does that particular dog enter or leave, how does the owner handle/manage their own dog...etc.
You can always have your own dog solid on a leave it or drop it as a defense against a resource guarding dog. If the house that other dog lives in doesn't practice any structure/NILF whatever you want to call it....I wouldn't expect the "leave it" or "drop it" to be anymore than circus tricks or barking at the dog like a young pup.
I'm not sure that made any sense, because it's late.
Note: one of the worst dogs that I have seen is a "field strain" lab that doesn't growl...he just dialates his eyes as he's launching onto a dog. Very violent, doesn't let up when a dog squeals, has every intention to cause harm. I don't care for him too much because someone has corrected the warnings. No lip curl, no growl, just launch. And, it's a Lab, a breed that's supposed to have a soft mouth. He knows "leave it" and "drop it" but if he's hit that launch point...forget it.

[e.rigby]

Yeah, I guess all the variables make it very difficult to work with dogs in such situations.

I've seen well trained dogs refused to drop an object once the competition starts. It kind of goes beyond training at that point because the dog is in a primal state. So for those dogs, how do you proof the drop it command? Having good leadership is great, but when you loose the dog in the 'heat of the moment' what tactics would you take to regain control?

Also, what methods would you use to teach a solid 'out' command to a dog that doesn't find ANYTHING more appealing than what it has in it's mouth. The dog I'm referring to doesn't want to play with a different toy, even when you ignore him and make the ball/stick/etc you have ten times more entertaining. He doesn't want food, no matter what it is (said dog seems ocd about toys), and when you do the 'tug' method and stop tugging he'll just lay down with the toy in his mouth. Of course, this is a horrible case dog -- a correction on a prong collar will 'sometimes' make him relinquish the object but it also seems to intensify his desire to 'get it back' -- I think this question is more geared to just "How do you teach a hard to train dog to 'out' an object!?"

I think some of the worst dogs I've seen have been labs and goldens. Maybe it comes from them being so obsessed over balls and sticks :/

Some more videos of the behavior in question:

Dogs Battle Over Prize - YouTube

Dogs fight.3gp - YouTube

Dogs fight over tennis ball at dog park - YouTube