Shearer is randomly aggressive.

[Thumper]

Hi all. First post and all that and am in serious need of help! I'd like to also apologise for the length of this - I can get a bit wordy haha

Shearer is our German Shepherd. He's 2 years old and is fairly mild mannered and also enjoys a good stroke and some rough play - but he's a big dog which makes rough play pretty difficult in the event it gets out of hand! The problem with this is that once he does get excited, he gets very excited and that can cause a lot of problems as you'll find out.

We got Shearer 4 days ago after a friend of my dads told him about the dog and how it was currently in police kennels for "attacking" an autistic child. Knowing that the chances of a dog with an attack record being re-homed would be minimal, he decided to bring him over without consulting the family - we were not pleased.

To clarify: the 'attack' was not an attack as such. The child was unmonitored with the dog and ended up trying to play with him - Shearer obliged and ended up scratching his face, at which point the police were informed that it was a "vicious attack" and obviously he was brought into the station.

Outside of the fact that Shearer hates cats and seems to get along reasonably with our other dog, Taz, there were initially very few signs of aggression from him. When we first introduced them, he wandered over to Taz, whimpered and licked his mouth - Taz returned the goodwill gesture. We kept them both on a leash and took them out for a walk to get used to each other, taking turns in which dog was 'leading' - naturally they were more interested in getting to know each other.

Anyhow, a few minor skirmishes between Shearer and Taz later they calmed down and started to accept each other... kind of. They both like rough play which can get out of hand pretty quickly some times but that just takes gentle monitoring, of course.

The breaking point happened on Tuesday morning.

I woke up to hear my name being screamed so I went to see what was going on and learned that Shearer had "mauled" my younger brother who has just started secondary school and is 10. The basic gist of it is that my brother was packing for school and Shearer just switched personalities. Fortunately the damage was minimal, leaving him only with two bite marks and a fair few scratches but my mother took him to the hospital just to get it cleaned up.

Obviously, after an incident like that we were none too keen on keeping Shearer but we first need to find him a new home. Along with this, we've started paying more attention to his body language and honestly, it's difficult to really know what he's planning on doing a lot of the time. He's often paying attention to something and as a result his ears are almost always pointed directly up but they seem to be pointing at us... and it's kind of disconcerting. Maybe that's just our mind playing games with us and helping us fear for the worst but that's something I think we, as a family, need to correct rather than a fault of the dog. To his credit, when I stroke him he always let's his ears relax and he happily submits - something he didn't do when he first came in. Perhaps he trusts me more than I trust him?

These acts of aggression seem to be at random but he is very protective over me. I was joking with my mother earlier today and she raised her voice, this lead to a rather large dog drop the knuckle bone and stand next to me barking. Needless to say, he rested his head on her legs to apologise once he realised there was no malice.

I took him on a long walk today and he decided I met a guy who was fishing and he struck up a conversation about Shearer - needless to say that was met by a startled GSD and gave a bark and a warning lunge for good measure. On the flipside, we came across a guy who simply refused to pass him out of fear - Shearer responded by putting his ears back and virtually crawling to him, presumably to show him he wasn't a vicious animal - it's literally random.

I'm concerned he may have a mental condition, or simply a trust issue. He's on his best behaviour with myself and my dad (more so me - I'm his walker!) and seems to be trying to win back my mother and brother's trust - unsuccessfully. Of course this leads to a fairly negative environment for the dog and I'm running out of hope of keeping him but just on the off chance that we do, I'm interested to know exactly what we can do to curb this kind of behaviour from him.

Also he keeps trying to eat our cats and rabbit. That's quite annoying to say the very least.

Thanks for any help you guys and gals can provide - it would be greatly appreciated.

It should be fairly obvious which is Shearer and which is Taz in the pictures!

[Franksmom]

I'm not an expert in this, but this just sounds like a bad situation waiting to happen, he went after your 10 year old brother. I would not let him out unless he was under your direct supervision, as in the dog not even in a different room then you're in,
You need to get in touch with a good trainer that knows GSD's as soon as possible. if you list your location someone on here may know of somebody.

[sit,stay]

My advise might not be the most well received of all the responses you can get here...but I need to say it. If your family can't keep him (and I can completely understand your family not wanting to take this dog on), please don't pass the dog along. Have him humanely euthanized by a vet.

Otherwise, you're setting him up to bounce from one unprepared home to another. Each successive home could be a little worse than the one before and at some point down the line this dog will meet a sad end. And people, perhaps even children, could easily be hurt seriously before then.

The kind of people who are experienced enough to handle this dog are going to be few and far between. The chances of being able to find someone like that for your dog are pretty slim. And no rescue group will take him with his history. And it wouldn't be fair to him or the future people who come in contact with him not to be totally up front and honest about his behavior.

If you do decide to keep him, everyone in your home must be on board and committed to keeping him and working with him. Your Mom and brother don't trust him for a very good reason. You can't force them.

Not only does everyone need to be on board with keeping him, but you must find experienced professional help now. It will cost money and effort. But you have to do that. Anything less is just postponing the inevitable. I get the impression you aren't in the U.S. I don't know where you are in the world, or how prevalent dog behaviorists/trainers are in your location. It won't matter, because it will be something that you must do if you have any chance of success.

I don't envy you. This is a very rough position to be in.
Sheilah

[debbiebrown]

if you are real interested in keeping him, i would get some professional help, get him evaluated etc., maybe he has never been taught appropriate behavior and just does things when he feels like it..............or he could have a degree of fear response.............he may very well be giving signals that you just aren't aware of, some dogs might whine before an attack, their eyes might harden up, stiffen up the body, etc.............i think you should get a professional to eval, and go from there..............hopefully its a matter of training and teaching right from wrong and being giving leadership.........

[gsdraven]

Ditto what Sheilah said.

IF you decide that you are going to work with him, you need to get him checked out medically. Full thyroid panel. If the attacks really are sudden, he may be having seizures so that needs to be checked as well.

Second, it is not likely that he is protective of you... you have only had him 4 days, there isn't much of a relationship yet. It is much more likely that he is guarding you or being possessive of you. That needs to stop.

Dog goes on NILIF immediately. Here is a website that explains NILIF: Nothing in Life is Free He gets no privileges or freedom unless he earns them. I'd keep him tethered to you whenever he's not contained.

At the same time, find a good professional that is experienced in dealing with aggressive dogs and more particularly GSDs if you can.

It's a tough situation to be in.

[Jack's Dad]

I also agree with Sheilah. I would add that if you keep him he needs to be confined. He can not be given the opporttunity to do this again. It could be worse the next time. She is right about not passing this dog down the line. It's unfortunate but it is now your responsibility.

[doggiedad]

how about a muzzle untill you figure out
what you're going to do with Shearer???

[Thumper]

Ah, apologies for the lack of location info. I had actually filled out my details and forgot to hit "submit". And of course a huge, huge apology for the length of this post!

Another concern of mine is the fact that my mother is epileptic - I have no idea how he would react if she were to have a seizure in front of him and that is, by far, one of my most major concerns although I don't doubt that if he does decide to turn on her, Taz will inevitably be there to protect her but that is far, far beyond the point.

Originally Posted by Franksmom

I'm not an expert in this, but this just sounds like a bad situation waiting to happen, he went after your 10 year old brother. I would not let him out unless he was under your direct supervision, as in the dog not even in a different room then you're in,
You need to get in touch with a good trainer that knows GSD's as soon as possible. if you list your location someone on here may know of somebody.

I agree whole heartedly, the problem is I'm completely unaware of any 'big dog' trainers in Newcastle and that's a large stumbling block. The price is also a concern but the end result would definitely be worth it.

The really weird thing about the problem with my brother is that I have not seen any of that aggressive nature first hand outside of a "handbags at dawn" scrap with Taz, in which he came off the worst with a tiny cut on his nose. (Which he regularly removes the scab and noses my jeans. Probably to irritate me.)

Regarding my brother it's a very weird situation. According to him he was literally just packing his bag and the dog turned on him for one reason or another and given the nature that I've seen (plus knowing the story from the previous owner) it's very difficult to believe it happened without provocation. According to my mother, he was snarling "like he was with Taz but not as loudly" which leads me to believe he was trying to play and got a bit too rough. Given that most of his injuries were scratches and the only puncture marks from his teeth was on his bicep and they barely broke the skin I'm leaning more towards it being a very bad attempt at rough play. He's done that with me and he does do the usual low growls and always goes for the bicep.

Of course I'm not saying that *IS* what happened, it's just a suggestion. We'll probably never know what the cause was and after all it's not exactly unheard of for dogs to sometimes just snap like that.

An interesting point actually. I was talking to my brother shortly after I made this thread and he actually wants to keep him... despite his being skittish around him, he genuinely believes that he's a "lovely dog" and that he doesn't "think we should get rid of him because of what happened". Maybe there was more to the story than he let on but that's what my mother saw too so I really, really don't know.

Originally Posted by sit,stay

My advise might not be the most well received of all the responses you can get here...but I need to say it. If your family can't keep him (and I can completely understand your family not wanting to take this dog on), please don't pass the dog along. Have him humanely euthanized by a vet.

Otherwise, you're setting him up to bounce from one unprepared home to another. Each successive home could be a little worse than the one before and at some point down the line this dog will meet a sad end. And people, perhaps even children, could easily be hurt seriously before then.

The kind of people who are experienced enough to handle this dog are going to be few and far between. The chances of being able to find someone like that for your dog are pretty slim. And no rescue group will take him with his history. And it wouldn't be fair to him or the future people who come in contact with him not to be totally up front and honest about his behavior.

If you do decide to keep him, everyone in your home must be on board and committed to keeping him and working with him. Your Mom and brother don't trust him for a very good reason. You can't force them.

Not only does everyone need to be on board with keeping him, but you must find experienced professional help now. It will cost money and effort. But you have to do that. Anything less is just postponing the inevitable. I get the impression you aren't in the U.S. I don't know where you are in the world, or how prevalent dog behaviorists/trainers are in your location. It won't matter, because it will be something that you must do if you have any chance of success.

I don't envy you. This is a very rough position to be in.
Sheilah

This is something I have been very seriously considering for obvious reasons but we're all very uncomfortable with having him put to sleep. Strangely enough, the one with the strongest opinion is actually my brother - he outright refused to even accept the possibility when it was suggested.

As for finding a rehoming shelter, we've contacted The Dogs Trust who have a "no destruction" policy (as long as the pooch is healthy, of course) and try to retrain the animals they receive. Unfortunately the closest shelter is too far for us to travel (none of us drive) so it has to be collection and sorting that out takes time.

Originally Posted by debbiebrown

if you are real interested in keeping him, i would get some professional help, get him evaluated etc., maybe he has never been taught appropriate behavior and just does things when he feels like it..............or he could have a degree of fear response.............he may very well be giving signals that you just aren't aware of, some dogs might whine before an attack, their eyes might harden up, stiffen up the body, etc.............i think you should get a professional to eval, and go from there..............hopefully its a matter of training and teaching right from wrong and being giving leadership.........

Funny you should mention signals. As I mentioned in the OP we have all been paying very close attention to his body language in an effort to gain more of an understanding and try to predict his mood as much as we possibly can and I think that's probably what we've been seeing in him with the 'unpredictability' issue I mentioned.

From what I have seen of him, before he decides to attack it really is just instantaneous. I haven't actually noticed anything that really stands out to me about his body language outside of perhaps one thing:

The last fight he had with Taz (the day before he attacked my brother actually... hm) I was sitting on the settee and Taz was finishing off what was left of his dinner. Shearer came over for a stroke and I happily did so! He sat, gave me a paw and we just sat their for a few minutes - literally seconds later, his ears pricked up and forward and, almost slowly, turned his head to Taz and then he lunged. Fortunately I was close enough to grab him by his collar and pull him back before any damage was done but that doesn't excuse the events.

Originally Posted by gsdraven

Ditto what Sheilah said.

IF you decide that you are going to work with him, you need to get him checked out medically. Full thyroid panel. If the attacks really are sudden, he may be having seizures so that needs to be checked as well.

Second, it is not likely that he is protective of you... you have only had him 4 days, there isn't much of a relationship yet. It is much more likely that he is guarding you or being possessive of you. That needs to stop.

Dog goes on NILIF immediately. Here is a website that explains NILIF: Nothing in Life is Free He gets no privileges or freedom unless he earns them. I'd keep him tethered to you whenever he's not contained.

At the same time, find a good professional that is experienced in dealing with aggressive dogs and more particularly GSDs if you can.

It's a tough situation to be in.

We do have an appointment with the vets for a check up but that sadly isn't until Monday. The seizures are a very interesting point and something I will definitely check with the vets - it didn't even occur to me that that could be the problem.

Excellent point about possessiveness - that was actually the word I was trying to think of but couldn't! It's very likely given the situation with my mother and how quickly he dropped his bone although I think the reaction to the guy on a walk was more a startled reaction - he doesn't pay any attention to anybody but me when we're walking. (At which times he's usually very obedient and follows almost my every word - unless he finds a nettle. He really likes nettles and I really have no idea why!) How would you go about preventing that possessive nature?

I am actually doing the NLIF treatment with him since the incident I mentioned with Taz just now and it's working quite well. He's realising that he can't buy my attention unless he does something good and when he's bad, he gets some crate time. Unfortunately we don't have a proper crate for him (obviously given his size) so what we have instead done is constructed one for him in the garden, almost like a kennel, really.

Originally Posted by Jack's Dad

I also agree with Sheilah. I would add that if you keep him he needs to be confined. He can not be given the opporttunity to do this again. It could be worse the next time. She is right about not passing this dog down the line. It's unfortunate but it is now your responsibility.

Definitely. I'm not prepared to pass it off when I'm unsure of his overall mentality or temperament, it would be irresponsible to, quite literally, pass the buck and that is anything but my intention. If I do manage to rehome him, there will be a lot of questions beforehand on my end. I have had some interest in him from friends of friends (usually from offhand remarks by me which is misconstrued as "this pooch is available!") and a lot of the time they've said they have children or pets and I've refused point blank to allow them to take the dog in.

Originally Posted by doggiedad

how about a muzzle untill you figure out what you're going to do with Shearer???

Yeah we have a material muzzle that we use quite often if we get a bad feeling about his temperament and especially when the cats decide to wander in and definitely when he's walking. Today he managed to loosen his muzzle up and get it off while he was on a walk and playing with me on a patch of grass - given I was walking him by myself a very friendly police officer who was walking by offered to hold the leash while I tightened it up and put it back on haha.

[Jack's Dad]

You have had good suggestions and I'm sure you will get more. I just want to say that if left alone and not treated the situation almost always gets worse not better in these cases. He's gottten away with a few things already so there is no reason for him to stop now. It's just a matter of when it happens. It is a serious matter and emotions should not be a factor in your decisions IMO.

[debbiebrown]

i think the most important thing is to work with a trainer learn this dogs triggers and slowly condition him in controlled situations............i am sure he is giving some signals before he does this and they are missed. they might be suttle or might not be.........

after a Vet check you can determine the next step.......