People Aggressive GSD - 4 years old PEDIGREE posted!

[GSDLove]

Hello All,
I am a long time lurker and have learned so much from this board. Now I am in an impossible situation and feel totally helpless. Please forgive the long text but I really need advice, even if it is hard/tough advice.
First some background on me. I am an experienced GSD owner, my dogs are companion pets and live with me in my home. I have owned two DDR GSD, Abby who went to the Rainbow Bridge at 11.5 years in May and Bailey, 4 years. Both came from a reputable breeder here in Texas.
At 11 months old he had a series of seizures that Gulf Coast Animal Center said are called motor seizures in that he runs when the seizure hits losing control of his bladder and bowels. The seizures are now under control and he has not had one in over 3 years thanks to the phenobarbital he takes.
He was a very mouthy pup, i.e. would nip at children, even torn a pair of pants all nips were when he was under 6 months and were corrected immediately.
Then at 14 months he bit a neighbor who decided to reach over my wrought iron fence to pet him. Bailey was already excited because I was on the other side of the fence petting the neighbor’s dog. He did not break the skin and the bruise was gone the next day.
At that point I upped his training specifically down, here, and watch. I also put in an Invisible fence to get him 4 feet off my fence line because people want to pet dogs and don’t always listen to the owner.
Fast forward 2.5 years Bailey is still dog aggressive, but his obedience is very good and he is manageable. Doing this time I have kept up with training, and watched for unwanted behaviors.
Now I feel comfortable in taking him to Petsmart, vet etc. I decide that another GSD is in order and apply and I am approved to adopt a GSD from a local rescue. I tell them about Bailey’s dog aggression, and it is agreed upon that it would be best to meet at the local Petsmart for the initial meet.
I get to the Petsmart and hour early to work Bailey and tire him out before meeting with my contact at the rescue. He takes treats from different people, and is spot on with his downs, and sits. (In my training down means down and sit means sit until I release you). My contact arrives, her dog is in the car and she is alone. I put Bailey in a down, hand the leash to my husband (mistake #1) and walk over to the rescue lady. She then ask if she can hug me (mistake #2) because she feels like she has known me forever, I say yes, then she goes to hug me and Bailey lunges and bites her on the thigh.
Fortunately, she is a GSD person, in GSD rescue and loves GSD’s. She said she realizes she should not have tried to hug me, but at this point my only concern is getting her to the hospital and her concern is Bailey and me not putting him to sleep.
I enlisted the help of a Sch trainer that the rescue recommended and he came out to evaluate Bailey. He says in his opinion Bailey is not so much aggressive but more frustrated and that there is hope for him. Several days later he gives me the cost of an 8 week class and at that point I realize I cannot afford the $800.00 dollars and tell him I will have to pass on the class but can he recommend any books or sites for help. I have bought several books, Don’t Shoot the Dog, and Excel-Rated; and bought Ed Frawley Aggressive dog video.
I have been working Bailey on focusing on me and looking to me for leadership, but with 100 plus degree weather his training is very slow.
I feel that it is a daily struggle to live with this dog because if it ever gets out he will harm someone. I had one GSD trainer who is also a Sch trainer tell me that Bailey is fear aggressive and will always be that way and if I choose to keep him that I must live his limited abilities. Then the most recent Sch trainer says Bailey is not so much aggressive but more frustrated and that there is hope for him.
Am I wrong to be considering PTS? My husband who travels and doesn’t work with refuses to consider PTS.
Thank you for any suggestions or advice.

[fuzzybunny]

I don't think you're wrong to consider PTS. It's very stressful dealing with a human/dog aggressive dog and you are putting yourself at risk for a lawsuit if the dog bites the wrong person.

I also don't think you're wrong if you decide to keep him. In this case I would recommend a muzzle when in public and would try to eliminate any potential for a bite. It will require you to be very proactive but it can be done.

Good luck in whatever you decide. Hugs

[katieliz]

have no advice, a decision only you can make, but want to say i understand how you feel, i have a boy who cannot entirely be trusted with other people/strange dogs, and it requires constant vigilance, lots of energy, and a 100% commitment. it requires a total change in thinking about the dog, you always have to think in terms of how he's going to react to your behavior (letting somebody hug you). i do think there are some dogs who are more "possessive" than others, they think it's their job in life to make sure that nobody even looks at you the wrong way. i have made lots of changes in my lifestyle to accommodate my boy, but the years do pass and their lifespan is short in the whole scheme of things. i wish you much luck in making your decision, which is a hard one.

regarding the various opinions of different trainers...i would always err on the side of safety and would have to agree with the person who said you'd have to learn to live with bailey's limits and protect him from being able to do anything that would hurt anyone (and thereby himself).

and for what it's worth, i'm glad for your husband's input, and hope his opinion carries weight.

[martemchik]

I guess my only advice would be to maybe try really hard to rehome him to a household that can deal with this type of dog. It will be extremely hard, as a dog with any kind of bite history has very limited options but I believe someone would be willing to take a risk and try to give this guy a happy life.

I have read much worse stories, and seen much worse dogs, than what you describe so I do believe this is manageable, it just depends on what you want to do. You might not ever be able to take him anywhere, or have him muzzled all the time, but there are ways that he can live out the rest of his days. At the same time once a dog bites one person (and in your case 2) they should be on a very very short leash. I completely understand you fear of him getting out and the fact that you want to rescue another dog is very noble, but with a dog like this around you probably won't be able to do that.

[katieliz]

note to the op, i would like to thank you for not even considering passing this problem along. the possibility of finding someone suitable is very remote, and it's alot more likely you'd be setting him up for failure.

[GSDLove]

Hi,

Re-homing is not an option. I believe that is just passing on a very dangerous problem.

Thanks,

[clearcreekranch]

I have a PSA trainer that I go to in Magnolia. He might be able to recommend something. And I am just curious who you have asked for advice,i.e., Schutzhund trainer. I have done an extensive search in the Houston area and good ones can't be found. And what does he mean by frustrated? I have been given some BAD advice from so called local "experts". If you have to work your dog and tire him out for an hour at Petsmart, he was probably on overload and very stressed. This is a nerve issue. Just so you don't think that I am ragging on you, I am dealing with some similar problems. I don't ever take Wolf to the feedstore and Petsmart....just too much stimulation. I do however take him to horse shows and he stays with me at hotels. I can manage what people do around my dog and myself much better than in a crowded store.
I am not an expert and am still learning myself.

PM for my trainer's name. It will not cost you $800 to talk with him.

[msvette2u]

Originally Posted by GSDLove

Hi,

Re-homing is not an option. I believe that is just passing on a very dangerous problem.

Thanks,

I am sorry it has come to this, but I agree as well. Kudos to you for trying. I must also say you are not out of line at all for considering euthanasia.
Remember that dogs don't see this as a horrible traumatic event like humans view their own deaths. There's times it is a kindness to put a dog down, and many people, through their own feelings towards death (or guilt about putting a "healthy" dog down) put it off and put it off.
You have to do what it takes to keep you and your family happy and safe.

Good luck whichever path you choose. We'll be here for you if you do choose PTS.

[debbiebrown]

its hard to give advice since i cannot see the dog, but many dogs can be saved with the right training and leadership...........it takes ALOT of dedication almost a 24-7 job which alot of people are not equipt or willing to give, its Not easy.

its a hard decision, one that requires some long hard thinking of whats best for the dog.........

[doggiedad]

keep him muzzled and work
on his training and socializing.
good luck.