Well, I got stitches tonight

[DharmasMom]

Another fight broke out tonight. They weren't playing. Anytime I have seen them playing, I have been immediately stopped it and made Tessa come lie down. It happened so fast, they were standing next to each other and Dharma proceeded to but a paw over Tessa's back. I know this is a sign of dominance so I immediately jumped up and was headed toward them when Tessa attacked her. I tried to grab Dharma's back legs first but when I dragged her off Tessa, Tessa just followed and stayed on her. I'm not even sure at what point Dharma got me in the left hand (same freaking hand) it happened so quick. Tessa actually managed to get Dharma down, I managed to get her off of Dharma and then grabbed Dharma and pushed her into the garage. It actually was over pretty quick. Not quick enough though. I had to go to the ER and they had to put a stitch in each laceration. One on my wrist, at the base of my thumb and one about 1/2" in the center of my palm. They only used one stitch to allow it to cont to drain. And of course it was reported. The only good thing is the AC officer isn't coming out until after I have time to get Dharma's rabies certificate tomorrow.

I am taking Tessa to the vet tomorrow for a work up. I want to make sure there isn't something else going on with this increase in aggression. I don't have the physical set up to completely separate them but I am going to have to figure something out in the meantime to keep them apart. I have made a shaker can with coins and have it with me at all times. I think I am going to keep a leash on Tessa as well. I have contacted someone at the rescue for more ideas.

I am truly concerned about this increase in aggression from her. 2 incidents in less than a week has me VERY worried. I have had problems with her barking at Dharma and running at her but only rarely actually attacking. There have been a few fights but NEVER this many this close together. Both girls are on strict NILIF as well. I have always used it but I have gotten MUCH stricter with it now. I know in the past there has been an increase in aggression when she is sick. That was how we found her ear infections last time. I had taken her in because I was having issue with her jumping up from her sleep and running after Dharma barking like a mad woman. That behavior stopped once the infections cleared up. Hopefully the vet can find a reason for this behavior as well. I can't have her attacking Dharma every time I turn around.

I have thought about "crate and rotate" but I only have the physical space for one crate and that is Tessa's. And she gets quite upset whenever Dharma gets in there. The few times Dharma has gotten in there Tessa gets jealous and doesn't like her in there. And I just don't have a place to put a second one. *sigh* I need a larger house, lol.

[KZoppa]

wow. thats definitely no good. Poor Dharma. I bet she feels awful for biting mom. not sure what to tell you about Tessa though. She's 10 years old. I'd be heavily concerned with the increased aggression myself. Increased aggression resulting in a bite, accidental of course, and no ability to rotate... i'd be massively confused on how i would handle the situation. Possibly seperate them by rooms? beyond that.... i have no ideas other than maybe Tessa is ready to go?

[bianca]

Oh no! I am so sorry

I have never gone through this kind of issue, but could you maybe use a bedroom as a separation space?

I hope you heal fast.

[Two]

Sorry to hear about this. Hope everything gets better for you and your dogs!

[PaddyD]

From you description it looks like Dharma started it with the paw on the back. At Tessa's age she probably has a shorter fuse. Also Dharma is bigger and probably more threatening and Tessa is reacting with fear aggression. These are just possibilities. So don't blame Tessa entirely and keep them separated. JMHO and good luck. I have been through this and the only thing that really works is keeping them separated.

[gsdraven]

Originally Posted by valreegrl

Another tip...lots of endorphins are released during a dog fight and it takes a good while for that level to go down. I would be very cautious around the dogs immediately after the fight as well as keeping them separate and crating/rotating for a good while.
I would also never leave them home unattended loose, together. Sadly I have heard many stories of people coming home to a blood bath. The first fight was bad, you don't want to see what it could be like when you are not there to help calm the situation.

I wanted to make sure you saw this in your other thread. I've heard that it takes a few days for the endorphins to leave the body after a big fight so another one is likely to happen. You need to figure out a way to keep them separated even if it means moving Tessa to another home.

This situation isn't going to get better but it can be managed. It is going to require work and for you to be on your game at all times to avoid further injury to yourself or the dogs. Although I've never been in the situation myself, I've heard that bitches never forget a fight and once they start, they don't stop.

Good luck at the vet with Tessa and I hope that you heal quickly.

[JeanKBBMMMAAN]

Originally Posted by PaddyD

From you description it looks like Dharma started it with the paw on the back. At Tessa's age she probably has a shorter fuse. Also Dharma is bigger and probably more threatening and Tessa is reacting with fear aggression. These are just possibilities. So don't blame Tessa entirely and keep them separated. JMHO and good luck. I have been through this and the only thing that really works is keeping them separated.

This.

Get someone in there to see the dynamic. From reading this stuff, and not seeing it, sounds like Dharma is running the show in your home. She is in charge, she is taking advantage of an old dog, and knows she can get away with it, and it is absolutely unacceptable. Dharma would be tethered to me and her obedience would be POPPING. I would no more tolerate a dog bullying an old dog than I would them doing it to a puppy.

There should be a room with a door? And if there is only one crate, and it's the old dog's crate, and that's an issue, guess who is going to have to learn to not go in there? MY dog. But not at this point because your situation is deteriorating.

In dogs who are jerks (this is how I view it, sorry, having seen dogs be the opposite and show care and respect to older dogs) when senior dogs get sick or more vulnerable, they ramp up their jerkiness in the face of the other dogs inability to defend. So Tessa may very well have an infection or be getting a little creakier. Is she on any meds?

Until you get someone in there, and Tessa to the vet, crate (or room) and rotate.

Best would be to, in the future, train Dharma that all good things come from being "good" around Tessa. I don't know if she gets that there are rewards for being appropriate. If not, that would be something I would discuss with a trainer. That way she has no confusion about her expectations.

But for now...keep them apart.

[Franksmom]

I use baby gates in door ways when i need to seperate mine, you can even stack them one on top of the other to make it higher so the dog won't jump the gate, I use doorways where the dogs can't see each other.
Good Luck, I agree with JeanKBBMMAANN on uping Dharma's obedience, Frank is 15mos and tries to test the pushiness with Indy once in a while and when he does I get on him big time. Frank doesnt' do that with King who is 8 he seems to walk around him and King has always been a wimpy type dog to me.

[Draugr]

I agree with the others that it really sounds like a behavioral issue, but with Tessa, at her age, thyroid dysfunction could be coming into play. Just a thought.

I agree with Jean's assessment - I think Dharma has some lessons to learn, I don't think Tessa is the problem here.

[AgileGSD]

Same sex aggression is not an uncommon problem in this breed. It is not a "dominance" issue, it's an issue of not being willing to share resources with another same sex dog. So I disagree at the idea that training and being stricter will fix it.

Considering one of the dogs involved is a 10 year old, I'd probably suggest crate and rotate. IMO it is the most appropriate option once injuries (human or dog) start to happen due to fights and the owner wants to keep both dogs. You may not have room in an ideal location for a crate but may need to squeeze one in somewhere that is less appealing to you. I did C&R for 10+ years in a small house with multiple dogs and three other people. Definitely not ideal but necessary. Ideally, set ti up so that the crated dog can be behind a closed door and have some peace such as a bedroom. Alternatively, if both dogs will respect baby gates, you could try to go that route and keep them separated into different rooms or parts of the house using baby gates. Or use the baby gate in conjunction with keeping the roaming dog from harassing and "crate fighting" with the crated dog. Since you only have two dogs, you could probably manage crate and rotate with just one crate - just lock one dog in another room while getting the other out then put that dog in a room and put the first dog in the crate.

I would strongly suggest not bringing another bitch in with Dharma once Tessa is gone. I'm not sure why you assume the issue here is with Tessa, as your story seems to suggest that Dharma was the instigator. Even if that isn't the case, she certainly sounds more than willing to fight. At any rate keeping one leashed and one loose could lead to more problems, as leashes tend to increase frustration/aggression/space issues. Attempting to use something like a shake can as a correction is risky to, as it might just amp the dogs up more. Once the aggression starts, it is way too late to correct them any way. You would need to correct for the subtle exchanges that happen before obvious aggression. Hard stares, tense muscles, lips tightened, etc. And again, such things have a risk of increasing the aggression. Very often in tense situations, if you correct one of the dogs then the other will attack.