New to This...any insight about growling out of left field is appreciated.

cynroux · 07-11-2011, 01:03 PM

We adopted our first GSD, 3 year old yet to be neutered Luke, on Saturday. He was surrendered to the kennel, never abused (as far as we know) and even though we know he's going through an adjustment period, he has been a model of sweetness and a very loving dog. He's big, and he's classically proportioned, but gentle...especially with our little rat terrier mix, our goofy Golden and our cat.

My youngest daughter, an athletic and dog loving 20 year old, just came home to meet him for the first time. Luke greeted her enthusiastically, threw himself in her lap when she sat on the floor, and did all the playful and endearing things he does to garner attention. He was all big, happy face and wiggles.

And then my daughter bent to kiss him on the nose. He stopped and growled at her. It was very soft but it stopped both of us in our tracks. Then he went on to wiggle around and ask for more petting. We were perplexed and blew it off, thinking he was just grumbling or "talking" and that we misunderstood.
He stayed in her lap, getting pets and scratches and then sat up to lick her.
My daughter was praising him, then cupped his face and smooched him on the nose. This time, the growl was real. No teeth, just the warning rumble.
She was devastated and naturally, a little frightened. I corrected him immediately, but I'm really surprised. She moved away from him and kept her distance, stating that a face bite from a 75 lb shepherd wasn't on her list of "to dos" this week.

He's been trying to kiss me non-stop and cuddling me like crazy every chance he gets (which is making my Mexirat nuts!) and he's cuddled with our middle daughter all weekend too. And I know I've smooched him the same way several times this weekend and he never growled.

Does anyone have any idea what this is? I know the obvious answer...don't kiss him on the snout...but it was only with my youngest. He's been getting and giving kisses all weekend. She was noting but kind and welcoming to him and was very excited and laughing over the attention he was showering on her, up until the growl.

He's a big, intimidating guy but seems like a goofball at heart. I can't figure out what prompted the growl. Is he trying to establish a pack order? Of all the kids, my youngest looks JUST like me and he's been my shadow since the moment he stepped in our door. Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

Jax08 · 07-11-2011, 01:28 PM

Read "The Other End of The Leash". Dogs do NOT greet each other face to face. They meet on the side. What your daughter is was confrontational to a dog. If a stranger walked up to me and kissed my nose, I'd growl too.

I don't believe in "pack order". Dogs KNOW that people are NOT dogs. You should practice NILIF, but you should do that with all dogs.

He is new to your home. Give him time, don't do anything like sticking your face in his until you are 100% positive he won't have an reaction.

Tbarrios333 · 07-11-2011, 01:43 PM

Well for one, he had just met your daughter and she was already putting her face in his, which in doggy language is very rude. He was warning her that she had overstepped her boundaries. I wouldn't overly correct the growl because at least you are getting a warning. To him, she was still a stranger.
I've had my dog for 2 years now (since she was a pup) and I've always messed with her nose/mouth/paws/teeth/tail to get her used to it. However, even now she's not overly fond of me kissing her nose. She lets me, she just doesn't love it.
He sounds like a great boy; thanks for taking him in!

Emoore · 07-11-2011, 01:52 PM

I agree with the others. Putting your face up to a dog's face is very rude and just asking to get bitten with a dog you don't know very well. He's not establishing pack order, just letting her know that he really really doesn't like that. She should respect it and we should all be thankful that he's a well-adjusted enough dog to give a warning and let her know politely that he doesn't like it, instead of a) biting her out of hand, or b) putting up with it until it builds up and builds up until he can't take it anymore.

Jax08 · 07-11-2011, 02:18 PM

just a side note for you as well...leaning over a dog is a sign of dominance in doggy language and he may object to that. Had a 100# temporary foster that a vet leaned over and he growled at her. I could have stood him on his head and laid on his back and he would have been ok but she was a stranger. She just calmly stood up, backed up and said "my fault. I leaned over him".

cynroux · 07-11-2011, 02:47 PM

This all makes COMPLETE sense! Thank you all so much. We've been spoiled with dogs who were raised from puppyhood and never showed any signs that this was a canine faux pas and our little Mexirat came to us so desperate for attention, he'd put up with anything.

Thanks to all for identifying this and helping us to recognize it. Luke is such a love...it seemed so out of character. He's big on all over face licking too, so it's hard to tell that, though he loves giving them, licks and kisses are two different things. Obviously, he was still being a love, and being a good guy about something that really weirded him out.

On a side note, the only correction he got from me was my getting between them and telling him no...it's okay. No shouting, corrective collar pulls. Only because we really didn't know what was up...I didn't want to over react.

Thanks again.

Jax08 · 07-11-2011, 03:39 PM

I read somewhere that them licking our faces was a sign of submission. If you watch two dogs, you'll see one lick the chin of the other. This doesn't mean the other is "dominant" over the other, just that at that moment that one licking is submitting. Get that book I recommended.

It's really enlightening.

Emoore · 07-11-2011, 06:41 PM

I think you'll learn, as you get to know Luke, that German Shepherds are a lot more stand-offish than other breeds you may have been exposed to. In general they tend to be aloof with strangers and they like their space and dignity. They can be extremely affectionate, snuggly, and goofy with their families, but he doesn't know you're his family yet.

debbiebrown · 07-12-2011, 06:44 AM

growling is a way of communicating a warning, and i would not push things at that point. i agree he did not know your daughter well and was uncomfortable with her getting that close leaning into him and kissing his face, very understandable.........i would only be worried if he did this with the family he knows well, or others he knows well. although alot of dogs don't like people pushing into their space, they shouldn't feel threatened with people they know. i would watch him, get to know his triggers etc, on the other hand growling also can be a learned behavior because it gets the results they want, for people to back off, so some correction may be needed if this continues.........

cynroux · 07-13-2011, 08:47 AM

Thanks for the book recommendation Jax08. If I can't download, I'll be sure to order it online this week.

Update...no one has tried to kiss him like that again and there has been nothing but love and affection coming from the big guy. He's settling in REALLY nicely, plays so well with my other dogs and gives our cat respect. He's really so perfect it's almost frightening.

07-11-2011, 01:03 PM	#1 (permalink)
cynroux New Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Southern Maryland Posts: 3	New to This...any insight about growling out of left field is appreciated. We adopted our first GSD, 3 year old yet to be neutered Luke, on Saturday. He was surrendered to the kennel, never abused (as far as we know) and even though we know he's going through an adjustment period, he has been a model of sweetness and a very loving dog. He's big, and he's classically proportioned, but gentle...especially with our little rat terrier mix, our goofy Golden and our cat. My youngest daughter, an athletic and dog loving 20 year old, just came home to meet him for the first time. Luke greeted her enthusiastically, threw himself in her lap when she sat on the floor, and did all the playful and endearing things he does to garner attention. He was all big, happy face and wiggles. And then my daughter bent to kiss him on the nose. He stopped and growled at her. It was very soft but it stopped both of us in our tracks. Then he went on to wiggle around and ask for more petting. We were perplexed and blew it off, thinking he was just grumbling or "talking" and that we misunderstood. He stayed in her lap, getting pets and scratches and then sat up to lick her. My daughter was praising him, then cupped his face and smooched him on the nose. This time, the growl was real. No teeth, just the warning rumble. She was devastated and naturally, a little frightened. I corrected him immediately, but I'm really surprised. She moved away from him and kept her distance, stating that a face bite from a 75 lb shepherd wasn't on her list of "to dos" this week. He's been trying to kiss me non-stop and cuddling me like crazy every chance he gets (which is making my Mexirat nuts!) and he's cuddled with our middle daughter all weekend too. And I know I've smooched him the same way several times this weekend and he never growled. Does anyone have any idea what this is? I know the obvious answer...don't kiss him on the snout...but it was only with my youngest. He's been getting and giving kisses all weekend. She was noting but kind and welcoming to him and was very excited and laughing over the attention he was showering on her, up until the growl. He's a big, intimidating guy but seems like a goofball at heart. I can't figure out what prompted the growl. Is he trying to establish a pack order? Of all the kids, my youngest looks JUST like me and he's been my shadow since the moment he stepped in our door. Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

07-11-2011, 01:43 PM	#3 (permalink)
Tbarrios333 Knighted Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Ft. Myers, FL Posts: 2,549	Well for one, he had just met your daughter and she was already putting her face in his, which in doggy language is very rude. He was warning her that she had overstepped her boundaries. I wouldn't overly correct the growl because at least you are getting a warning. To him, she was still a stranger. I've had my dog for 2 years now (since she was a pup) and I've always messed with her nose/mouth/paws/teeth/tail to get her used to it. However, even now she's not overly fond of me kissing her nose. She lets me, she just doesn't love it. He sounds like a great boy; thanks for taking him in! __________________ Owned by Nini and McKinley.

07-11-2011, 01:52 PM	#4 (permalink)
Emoore Crowned Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North DFW, TX Posts: 9,208	I agree with the others. Putting your face up to a dog's face is very rude and just asking to get bitten with a dog you don't know very well. He's not establishing pack order, just letting her know that he really really doesn't like that. She should respect it and we should all be thankful that he's a well-adjusted enough dog to give a warning and let her know politely that he doesn't like it, instead of a) biting her out of hand, or b) putting up with it until it builds up and builds up until he can't take it anymore. __________________ Rocky vom Backyard- 10 years young Kopper vom Felssclucht Bach - 17 months At the Bridge: Cash van der Animal Shelter 2006-2010

07-11-2011, 06:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
Emoore Crowned Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North DFW, TX Posts: 9,208	I think you'll learn, as you get to know Luke, that German Shepherds are a lot more stand-offish than other breeds you may have been exposed to. In general they tend to be aloof with strangers and they like their space and dignity. They can be extremely affectionate, snuggly, and goofy with their families, but he doesn't know you're his family yet. __________________ Rocky vom Backyard- 10 years young Kopper vom Felssclucht Bach - 17 months At the Bridge: Cash van der Animal Shelter 2006-2010

07-12-2011, 06:44 AM	#9 (permalink)
debbiebrown Crowned Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: maine Posts: 7,598	growling is a way of communicating a warning, and i would not push things at that point. i agree he did not know your daughter well and was uncomfortable with her getting that close leaning into him and kissing his face, very understandable.........i would only be worried if he did this with the family he knows well, or others he knows well. although alot of dogs don't like people pushing into their space, they shouldn't feel threatened with people they know. i would watch him, get to know his triggers etc, on the other hand growling also can be a learned behavior because it gets the results they want, for people to back off, so some correction may be needed if this continues......... __________________ url

07-11-2011, 01:28 PM	#2 (permalink)
Jax08 Crowned Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: NNE PA Posts: 14,314	Read "The Other End of The Leash". Dogs do NOT greet each other face to face. They meet on the side. What your daughter is was confrontational to a dog. If a stranger walked up to me and kissed my nose, I'd growl too. I don't believe in "pack order". Dogs KNOW that people are NOT dogs. You should practice NILIF, but you should do that with all dogs. He is new to your home. Give him time, don't do anything like sticking your face in his until you are 100% positive he won't have an reaction.

07-11-2011, 02:18 PM	#5 (permalink)
Jax08 Crowned Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: NNE PA Posts: 14,314	just a side note for you as well...leaning over a dog is a sign of dominance in doggy language and he may object to that. Had a 100# temporary foster that a vet leaned over and he growled at her. I could have stood him on his head and laid on his back and he would have been ok but she was a stranger. She just calmly stood up, backed up and said "my fault. I leaned over him".

07-11-2011, 02:47 PM	#6 (permalink)
cynroux New Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Southern Maryland Posts: 3	This all makes COMPLETE sense! Thank you all so much. We've been spoiled with dogs who were raised from puppyhood and never showed any signs that this was a canine faux pas and our little Mexirat came to us so desperate for attention, he'd put up with anything. Thanks to all for identifying this and helping us to recognize it. Luke is such a love...it seemed so out of character. He's big on all over face licking too, so it's hard to tell that, though he loves giving them, licks and kisses are two different things. Obviously, he was still being a love, and being a good guy about something that really weirded him out. On a side note, the only correction he got from me was my getting between them and telling him no...it's okay. No shouting, corrective collar pulls. Only because we really didn't know what was up...I didn't want to over react. Thanks again.

07-11-2011, 03:39 PM	#7 (permalink)
Jax08 Crowned Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: NNE PA Posts: 14,314	I read somewhere that them licking our faces was a sign of submission. If you watch two dogs, you'll see one lick the chin of the other. This doesn't mean the other is "dominant" over the other, just that at that moment that one licking is submitting. Get that book I recommended. It's really enlightening.

07-13-2011, 08:47 AM	#10 (permalink)
cynroux New Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Southern Maryland Posts: 3	Thanks for the book recommendation Jax08. If I can't download, I'll be sure to order it online this week. Update...no one has tried to kiss him like that again and there has been nothing but love and affection coming from the big guy. He's settling in REALLY nicely, plays so well with my other dogs and gives our cat respect. He's really so perfect it's almost frightening.

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