Need serious help with dog family dog aggression

[ZoeyDog]

The last couple of weeks ago or so our 17 month old GSD has been VERY aggressive towards our 9 year old male beagle mix Roscoe. There is no reason for the aggression, no trigger they can be fine and he can walk into the room and she will attack! I am not talking play fighting but having to pull them apart scary aggression. She has not bit real hard so far I guess, he has a few scratches and small bit marks nothing big considering she could do some real damage. The noise is horrible! He doesn't do much but sleep no food aggression between them they can eat from the same bowl. They sleep next to each other at night and even on the floor in the evenings. She has always been a little jealous of him being near me when she is so I try to keep that down to a minimum and spend most of the old dog cuddle time while the GSD's are outside. After I pull them apart she is put outside. Commands do not work even though we try no, leave it, yelling but nothing works. Tonight I got a little bit of it when I was pulling them apart. I don't want my 12 year old son to get in the middle and get hurt or my old dog to get really hurt. What do you think might be causing this and what can I do to stop it. It seems to be getting more frequent and worse. She is not like this to our other GSD who is almost 10 months or any other dog for that matter or kids. She does "guard/protect" me a lot when we are outside or on walks. We had a behaviorist come to the house 4 months ago and he called it corrective behavior. I think it is way beyond that. Right now we are keeping them a part as much as possible. It is to hot outside 109 today without the heat index so I can't just keep putting her outside and leaving her there. Any help with training or anything so we can have a little peace without being on edge if they end up in the same room because they can either be sweet and lick each other or she can go from sweet and laying down to attack mode.

[JakodaCD OA]

Obviously I cant say what's going thru her mind, but some dogs will pick on older dogs. I had a female gsd who had the mindset of being the "corrector",,but not as severe as yours seems to be.

Do YOU do any type of corrective behavior to her when this happens? I'd be on her like you know what..She would KNOW I am po'd about her behavior and its not her job to do any correcting. I of course don't mean beating her to death for it, (exaggeration there),,

I would right now, keep a very close eye on her, when the beagle is around, and separate if you have to, see if you can pick up on a "look", "body posture" BEFORE it happens, and work on a good LEAVE IT NOW, command BEFORE it happens..

Hard to do, if your seeing no triggers, or any type of body language before it happens, but even if she goes NEAR him, I would get her away from him ..

Sorry no real suggestions or advice, just stay viligant

[MaggieRoseLee]

You need to take this seriously and something has to change right now. Do NOT let the dogs work it out. Not fair to your poor older (and smaller) dog. YOU as the leader have to step in and MANAGE this. Not come in like a Crazy Person in the middle of the fight.

Instead you need to MANAGE the situation to prevent it from even starting.

Frankly, it's clear to me your GSD thinks it is the leader in the house, not you. And the GSD is blowing you off and neither looking to you or cuing from you (cause why should they, THEY are the boss).

YOU need to get the leadership role with your GSD. And this is a day to day thing that your dog can learn. You need to PUT her in the car and drive away from the familiar house where the dog has learned to ignore you and where she KNOWS she is currently the Queen of The House.

Once you are in a new place with new people/sights/sounds then your dog should no longer be quite as sure of her Queenliness and you will have a CHANCE to show your leadership skills. Frankly, this is why many many many of us go to and CONTINUE to go to dog classes. Because if there's a chance I don't have natural leadership skills my dog is looking at and cuing from ..... then the classes with a good instructor can give ME those skills.

Dog training and dog behaviors, along with our role is NOT always an easy thing! We are humans, period. So what makes sense to us, or what confuses us with our dogs is because we are looking at it as a human.

So if I can't fix something, be it getting my dog to 'sit' or getting my dog to not kill my other dog, it's because I'm coming at it like a human and that's not working. So I need to hurry up and go to someone who's familiar with how a DOG thinks and can give me ideas/hints/guidance to help.

First of all I'd never leave the dogs alone together. Even at night I'd crate the GSD. If you are just noticing the HUGE FIGHT I bet you are missing the tons of many teeny 'dog language' things going on daily that lead up to this. Great DVD that may help is called 'Calming Signals' by Turid Rugaas cause I bet your Beagle is tossing them out hysterically all day and we 'stupid' humans have no idea what's going on. You want the DVD, not just the book cause you need to SEE what's going on in real time.

Welcome to Dogwise.com

The other real benefit I bet you'll find is to bond and EXERCISE your GSD. I'm talking about miles and miles and miles a week. Even better if you can mix some physical training with the exercise. Something like herding would be ideal.

I know I have to wear my dogs our or I get more snarking and issues in my house. And by exercise I have to get out my planning calendar, and mark out time for TRAINING (classes?) as well as exercise (hours weekly).

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[WVGSD]

I have eight dogs in the house and none of them ever, ever eat from the same bowl of food. I would feed separately and in a crate, at least for the two German Shepherds.

It also sounds like you have a female GSD that is 17 months old and another female that is 10 months old. This, too, can be a disaster, especially if you have one that is asserting herself as the dominant one in the pack.

My recommendation is to purchase crates and baby gates and get these two German Shepherds in to obedience training classes so that you can establish your leadership in a positive manner. It is your responsibility to keep your three dogs safe, especially the smaller senior Beagle mix.

[MaggieRoseLee]

Originally Posted by WVGSD

I have eight dogs in the house and none of them ever, ever eat from the same bowl of food. I would feed separately and in a crate, at least for the two German Shepherds.

It also sounds like you have a female GSD that is 17 months old and another female that is 10 months old. This, too, can be a disaster, especially if you have one that is asserting herself as the dominant one in the pack.

My recommendation is to purchase crates and baby gates and get these two German Shepherds in to obedience training classes so that you can establish your leadership in a positive manner. It is your responsibility to keep your three dogs safe, especially the smaller senior Beagle mix.

I didn't realize you have two young GSD's so close in age. I'm sure that DEFINITELY has an impact on the situation. It's why responsible breeders won't sell a puppy to someone in your situation that already has a puppy close in age. It's really hard for ANYONE to deal with that, plus having a busy family life and other dogs in the family.

Here's some of what is going on (and really explains why you aren't perceived as the leader right now to at least the GSD's)...And even if they aren't littermates..it's the closeness in age that leads to the more complicated issues and problems.

http://www.uvhs.org/behavioral_docs/double_trouble.pdf

http://www.doglistener.co.uk/choosing/siblings.shtml

Leerburg | Raising 2 pups at one time in a Family Setting

Raising Siblings

[ZoeyDog]

We so far don't really have problems with the two GSD's. Zoey has mothered her and does correct her this has mellowed out as Sadie has gotten a little older. We have gone through training with them both and had a trainer/behaviorist come to the house. Zoey skipped puppy, went through basic very easily and then through intermediate. We try to keep up with training at home. The two GSD's are never around the beagle mix unless we are around. The girls stay outside and he stays inside during the day so no signs he would be throwing around all day and let it build. I am serious in saying that we call all be in the front room me on the couch and the dogs laying on the floor and she will get up and go for him, or walk by him and go for him while not two minutes before she was loving on him. We don't have any other aggression problems besides. We go for walks when we can. When it was cooler we went on a regular basis. Yesterday was 109 today was 105 the dogs get hot and so do we. It was 101 still last night at 9 pm so it isn't even cooling down late to go walk. For now we are keeping the separated in different rooms. Roscoe goes where ever my son is and the girls stay with me. If she does start after him we try leave it, stop, yell, try to move her, and then have to pull her off. Then she goes outside. I know adding the third dog changed the dynamic quite a bit. I am just looking for any help that I can get because we love all of our dogs.

[MaggieRoseLee]

Once again, just cause you don't see anything but the 'sudden' fight, doesn't mean there isn't a whole lot of calm quiet DOG language going on. Sniffing, licking, eye contact.........on and on and on.

Please, get the DVD Calming Signals so you can learn to see what ALL of us also needed to learn.

Manage and control the situation now. If you have to crate the GSD you are worried about, then do so to give your beagle a break.

Find some place to exercise and train your dogs. Many training facilities are air conditioned. And if you have somewhere you can drive to and then SWIM your dog after a ball for an hour or in the morning that will wear her out.

Everything you are doing is useless cause it's in REACTION to the fight. Zero training and learning takes place then and your beagle gets beat up (again).

You need to figure out what you can do BEFORE the fight to prevent it. Frankly, if I was in your situation and not able to deal with it, the GSD would have to go. And go now. The beagle was there first, never asked for any other dogs to be added. For the beagle to then pay the price for it being too hot, too many dogs, the lack of training/knowledge of the handler (for now, we can learn) is just not fair.

Contact the breeder and ask if they can take the GSD back while you figure this out. It's just another reason we use a responsible breeder and sign the puppy warranty, to get help in situations like this that we aren't able to manage.

[middleofnowhere]

Originally Posted by ZoeyDog

We so far don't really have problems with the two GSD's. ....

Let's say that you just don't recognize any problems between the GSDs because you have a problem with the older (still not very old) GSD.

Here are a few thoughts to add to what's been offered:

The two of them are outside all day, the beagle+ is inside. The older GSD has her spot secured with the younger GSD but the beagle - not so much. And by her being outside and him inside you have become a much more coveted resource.

Then, wow, look at the attention she gets when she chews that golden boy beagle out! Wow, did that ever get their eye!

What I would try is whole-scale NILIF with the one GSD. Basically, you shun the dog for a week. She gets fed, let out, given water, crated but no eye contact, no treats, no attention at all by every human in the household. I've had that bring a dog around very fast. Everyone has to be onboard for this to work.

[ZoeyDog]

Originally Posted by MaggieRoseLee

Once again, just cause you don't see anything but the 'sudden' fight, doesn't mean there isn't a whole lot of calm quiet DOG language going on. Sniffing, licking, eye contact.........on and on and on.
I understand this since this is a new development I am asking for help.

Please, get the DVD Calming Signals so you can learn to see what ALL of us also needed to learn.
I will look into the DVD

Manage and control the situation now. If you have to crate the GSD you are worried about, then do so to give your beagle a break.This is why we are keeping them separate in the house

Find some place to exercise and train your dogs. Many training facilities are air conditioned. And if you have somewhere you can drive to and then SWIM your dog after a ball for an hour or in the morning that will wear her out.We live in a very small town, there is not a training facility and the only dog park we have is new and just a fenced in area next to a children's playground with nothing but grass and sticker bushes that is not even as big as my back yard, although we have been a couple of times and think we are close to the only people that have used it because we never have seen another dog there. We are hard pressed for training. Petco and one other trainer and they cancelled two classes because no other dogs signed up. After a couple of months of cancels we went to Petco.

Everything you are doing is useless cause it's in REACTION to the fight. Zero training and learning takes place then and your beagle gets beat up (again).I am asking how to train her to not do this, that is why I am asking for help

You need to figure out what you can do BEFORE the fight to prevent it. Frankly, if I was in your situation and not able to deal with it, the GSD would have to go. And go now. The beagle was there first, never asked for any other dogs to be added. For the beagle to then pay the price for it being too hot, too many dogs, the lack of training/knowledge of the handler (for now, we can learn) is just not fair. I had a GSD that passed away a little over a year ago the day after we brought Zoey home and the old GSD had been abused before we adopted her and we worked through her problems but didn't have other dog aggression like Zoey.

Contact the breeder and ask if they can take the GSD back while you figure this out. It's just another reason we use a responsible breeder and sign the puppy warranty, to get help in situations like this that we aren't able to manage.

I would really like to work with my dogs before I call the breeder and say we can't keep her. She is a great guard dog and great around my family people that she knows and great with the kids mostly a large number of 12 year old boys that run through my house.
I really appreciate the comments and any help that I can get as this is new to us. Out of all of the dogs that I have had GSD's and pit bull mixes that I have had we have never had this occur at our house before. When we see the warning signs from her we stop it and correct her. I am going to look up some of the training techniques that people have posted and I have read about in other post. Thanks again for everyones comments.

[ZoeyDog]

Originally Posted by middleofnowhere

What I would try is whole-scale NILIF with the one GSD. Basically, you shun the dog for a week. She gets fed, let out, given water, crated but no eye contact, no treats, no attention at all by every human in the household. I've had that bring a dog around very fast. Everyone has to be onboard for this to work.

I am going to be looking into this, I have seen it posted many times in different posts in this forum.