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Desperate for help!! GSD has bitten neighbor and stepson

22K views 116 replies 51 participants last post by  jmoney 
#1 ·
My GSD rescue Sam has been with us for 7 mos. He is now 15 mos. I have tried EVERYTHING. 2 trainers, active use of the NILIF protocol. Sam is getting better with other dogs and does listen to me as I have had to use alpha training. He has now bitten 2 of my neighbors and today my stepson! I had to keep him on leash when he entered house, tried moving him over slowly, calm voice and praise. finally he sniffed him and seemed fine, nex t minute lunged and bit his leg!! What am I doing wrong. I train him constantly, very consistent. He has come a LONG way and learned a lot of obedience but aggression getting worse, should i keep muzzle on him around people in the house. I love him and do not want to give him up. PLEASE HELP!
 
#4 ·
He has now bitten 2 of my neighbors and today my stepson! I had to keep him on leash when he entered house, tried moving him over slowly, calm voice and praise. finally he sniffed him and seemed fine, nex t minute lunged and bit his leg!! What am I doing wrong. I train him constantly, very consistent. He has come a LONG way and learned a lot of obedience but aggression getting worse, should i keep muzzle on him around people in the house. I love him and do not want to give him up. PLEASE HELP!
If your dog is so dangerous that you don't let people into your house without putting him on a leash and then he still bites, you are in denial. This dog, by your own admission, has bitten three people and his aggression is getting worse. What are you waiting for? What happened to another member here's nephew? This isn't going to be what you want to hear, but put the dog down.
 
#8 ·
i think i have to agree with Elaine on this one. Your dog is a biter and a liability because of it. 3 people is way too many people. especially if he just did it with no real indictation or warning growl. Thats a dog who is unpredictable. I can understand leashing your dog when you have company come over and you're training the dog to do any number of things like not bolt out the door, not pester company past say a minute, not to chase the cat... the list goes on. But if the dog doesnt accept welcome company, thats dangerous. With 3 bites, i'm amazed you even still have him considering animal control is usually notified and most areas have a one bite can be an accident but not two. You've worked with trainers and he's still behaving this way. Something isnt right with him and honestly, as his owner, that would cause an intense amount of stress for me constantly wondering who he would try to get next. Some dogs just have problems you can fix with training.
 
#9 ·
I understand how hard this is. We had one female who was highly reactive and a biter. She came to us at 5 without us being told the true reason (attacking children who visited). We spent 5 years keeping her away from people, limited who came into our house and how those who came in acted around her, our cats took some punishment, I had her teeth in me in a minor way about 5 or 6 times. Finally, at 10 her aggression to cats, dogs, people had intensified as her arthritis of aging had her in pain. We had to let her pass. It was really hard, but some time later we brought in a new dog and he has been perfect 100%. We realized how much of our life we limited because we wanted to give her a chance. Either you must 100% keep the dog from people or you must help him pass. You can't risk the liability. It's sad, but some dogs really have a short circuit from genetics or their past environment. Sadly, human life does outrank that of a dog. It's rather nonnegotiable.
 
#10 ·
This is a puppy. Whatever type of training you are doing may not be the best for this pup. Are these bites that are breaking the skin and needing stitches, or is the dog seriously mouthy? The reason I ask this is that I have a puppy that has been gone for five months and is now back. She is fifteen months old. And she is mouthing my hands like crazy -- no blood -- this is NOT aggression. But if this was my first dog, I might think it was.

So, before we euthanize this pup, it would be good to know what is going on with the bites themselves. Are they breaking the skin, is there bruising, is the hair up when this happens, is there snarls, growls, show of teeth before, are the lips drawn back or forward during? I am guessing it happens fast, but it can mean two different things.

1. If the pup has something physical, thyroid, b-vitamin, not sure what all, that can be diagnosed and treated with meds/vitamins, that is the first thing.

2. If this is a fear/response, than alpha training is not going to help a lot. MOST bites do have more to do with being unsocialized, fearful in the situation, than dominant aggression. If he is fearful, continue NILIF, and continue to train him, but set him up to succeed and praise him for it, build his confidence and build his socialization experience, muzzled if necessary, not to the point of people touching him, but him in a variety of situations where he is not hurt. Try to keep it positive.

3. If this is a dominant/aggressive situation, I wonder if you are right for this pup. Sad because unless you find the right person with full disclosure to take him and work with him, your options are really limited.

Remember thought that this is a youngster. If three people have headed off to the ER already, well, I think you need to maybe think about taking him to the vet, and doing what needs to be done, sadly. But if these are inhibited bites out of something that might be worked on, well maybe he has a chance.

Good luck with the puppy. We do not know what happened to him before you got him, but that is over and done with, you cannot change it, and he is living in the moment. He probably was not socialized, which makes your job harder, but do not give him the you-poor-thing treatment because of what MIGHT have been his previous situation. At the same time, if you are alpha rolling this puppy, you might end up in the ER.
 
#11 ·
He needs to be euthanized.

Whether you do it humanely and in a calm, professional manner yourself, or wait for the county/city to seize him when he bites the wrong person is up to you. They'll quarantine him most likely in a shelter, in a crappy little cell of of cage, where he'll have to wait until it's deemed ok to put him down. Then he'll be removed from the cage, likely by a catch pole given the bite history, dragged to a little room and you hope your county/city humanely euthanizes (still scary for the dog especially when done by strangers) vs a heartstick or gassing shelter.

Put him down yourself humanely. Don't wait for someone to do it for you.
 
#12 ·
I'm really sorry. It's not a pleasant answer. Yes, Selzer is right. Could this be medical? See the vet for a full everything. Could this be fear or just inappropriate mouthing? Are these serious attack-type bites? What did the two different trainers advise? You rescued the dog, what does the rescue say/advise? How does the dog react to you? Are there ever teeth shown, and I mean ever for any reason. How about your spouse? Is the dog 100% safe with all dwellers of your home (human and animal)? Is it JUST strangers?

Your only option IF the dog defers to you and all residents of your household and your household is 100% safe is to crate the dog at any time when someone else enters the home. The dog cannot be in public. EVER. No one can EVER pet the dog. You will need if you must walk in public a DO NOT PET vest. Do not allow people to touch the dog even if they ask. EVER. I used to take our girl into closed campgrounds in the mountains during the off-season. Nothing but me, her, our other dog who had learned to avoid ticking her off, and bears (I counted on her for life and death protection). You must make sure your fencing is inpenetrable and all gates are padlocked at all times. Your front door must have a safety door. It is a tremendous stress saving a risky dog. It is your responsibility, at this point, to 100% ensure the safety of all people either with extreme accomodations or by helping the dog pass. Do not leave yourself or others at risk.

I hope I do not sound callous, because I absolutely have done this. We learned, she learned, we accomodated. We coped for 5 years because we couldn't put down a healthy dog. We did not have family or friends visit unless I could lock her away in a room with a do not enter sign. She had a comfortable limited life. So did we. Really, it is what you can cope with.

Again, don't leave yourself or other household dwellers at risk. If you or your common household members are not 100% safe, you must help the dog pass. In that case, you just have NO option.

I'm sorry but you really have to do some responsible situation analysis in this case and face some hard choices.
 
#16 ·
Although I appreciate the input, putting him down is not an option for me. He is friendly with neighbors he does know, and dogs as well. perhaps i should have added that in. all of the bites were scratches, none of them broke the skin. if we are in public he is fine, just when people come into the house. I have been reading prev thread about a GSD named Victor and if I have to crate him when folks come by, that may have to become the routine. My husband and I are safe. He was not like this when we first adopted him, just seemed to escalate. I am definately not alpha rolling the dog, just let him know that I am in charge. everything is done with love, no harshness. Perhaps I should have given a more detailed history. I know he will never be a social dog but there is no way I will put this dog down.
 
#24 ·
Although I appreciate the input, putting him down is not an option for me. He is friendly with neighbors he does know, and dogs as well. perhaps i should have added that in. all of the bites were scratches, none of them broke the skin. if we are in public he is fine, just when people come into the house. I have been reading prev thread about a GSD named Victor and if I have to crate him when folks come by, that may have to become the routine. My husband and I are safe. He was not like this when we first adopted him, just seemed to escalate. I am definately not alpha rolling the dog, just let him know that I am in charge. everything is done with love, no harshness. Perhaps I should have given a more detailed history. I know he will never be a social dog but there is no way I will put this dog down.

Stacey, you should REALLY talk to Leslie about Victor. I know she and her husband went through a great deal with him. They tried everything with him that they could reasonably do and in the end it was not only less stress to put him to sleep, it was the safest option. Victor was a healthy dog but mentally unstable as far as aggression went. I will let you know she may be tough to get a hold of right away though. I know she's trying to spend more time away from the computer. If i recall, Victor wasnt aggressive when they first got him either. Victor's aggression kept escalating as well and he was a young boy as well. Leslie tried everything to help Victor. Some dogs are great and social. Some dogs are less social with outsiders but will tolerate them. then there are ones who quickly become unpredictable and dangerous to those around them. Scratches can easily escalate to something way worse and from your posts, he doesnt seem to give any kind of warning when he just goes for someone. Thats dangerous. be careful.
 
#22 ·
not really possible to get an accurate assessment of a dog's temperment on a message board. it is possible to manage a dog's environment tho so that he never, ever, has a chance to get himself (and you), in trouble. it's taxing and it's difficult and a whole lotta responsibility, but it can be done.
 
#23 ·
the dog also bit the step-son, whom was welcomed into the house. And not just a bite, but a lunge bite. The OP did state that she has already tried EVERYTHING, but the dog's aggression is progressively getting worse (as the dog's size, strength, and potential to cause greater injury is also increasing).
 
#25 ·
Sometimes we can be so helpful, and sometimes, the people on this site, can be really snarky when you do not run out and do everything they suggest.

I think you are right to try to nip this in the bud.

I would be very careful with even the neighbors he does know, until you can figure out why he is acting this way.

I second calling the rescue and asking them for some help.

I think NILIF is a good idea.

I think that taking the dog to dog classes every week at least once a week is a great idea. If obedience gets tedius, go for rally or agility. Agility is great for dogs who need to boost their confidence.

Any chance of finding a behaviorist?

I do not think your puppy is beyond hope, but I think that determining the type of aggression is first in order to deal with it properly.

If these bites are scratches, then the dog IS showing bite inhibition. He may be resource guarding -- you are the resource. There are so many scenarios, and it is simply not fair to sit here and try to diagnose. Trainers are good, but a behaviorist might be a better match.

Lots of exercise,
Lots of training
Good leadership
Vet visit
And a behaviorist that maybe can help you understand why the dog is having this issue, and have tips for you to work on.

There are some good books out there too. Help for the shy dog -- Deborah wood, The dog listener - Jan Fennel. Other decent author: Patricia McConnel, and a bunch of others.

I wish you luck. Please do not give up on this pup, and just keep him under wraps. This is a cry for help, the dog is not in a good, safe frame of mind. And if it gets worse, you can be in a world of hurt. I think you are not at the point of no return here. But you do need to address it and work through it.
 
#26 ·
This forum amazes me sometimes. A member will get castigated for suggesting putting down an elderly dog with multiple, multiple health problems and not trying extreme measures to save him. People will then come in and IMMEDIATELY suggest a young, healthy dog be euthanized for "biting" without knowing all of the facts or extent of injuries. Incredible.

ETA: I agree with everything selzer is saying and think she is the most rational one in this thread right now.
 
#27 ·
Thank you to those who have encouraged me. I do believe that he nedds to mature a bit more, I will not give him the chance to bite again, will always have him under control. I was also discouraged that so many people were quick to say euthanize your dog.
 
#33 ·
Thank you to those who have encouraged me. I do believe that he nedds to mature a bit more, I will not give him the chance to bite again, will always have him under control. I was also discouraged that so many people were quick to say euthanize your dog.
Everyone on this forum loves dogs, especially the GSD. We're not eager to see any dog put down, but this problem of yours isn't something that just sprang up lastnight. Your dog has bitten (3) different individuals with one being a welcomed guest & family member, and to your own admission, the aggressiveness is getting worse. Again, I'm sorry that you didn't like some of the quick advice you were given. I sincerely hope everything works out for you and your dog. Please keep all children away from your dog.
 
#30 ·
I think everyone is a little more sensitive than usual as a member's nephew was mauled by a bull mastiff just the other day. The mauling was EXTREMELY severe and the child nearly died. I do agree with everything selzer said though. Taking on this dog is a HUGE responsibility and possible liability but I believe it can be done. I would also take advice from the members here who HAVE aggressive dogs and manage them if that is the route you end up choosing to take. Good luck, I really do wish you the best.

What is the dog's name, btw? You may have posted it but I missed it.
 
#29 ·
Debbi...let it go. You know **** well that nobody was advocating for anything other than more than 2 days and some bloodwork to see exactly what his medical problems were so stop trying to paint us as some horrible fanatics and dragging it in to another thread that is completely irrelevant.

OP - you have a problem. A potentially severe problem. Please get a medical work up done on your dog and a GOOD behaviorist/trainer. Is your dog reacting out of fear? Is your dog just hard wired incorrectly? You need to get a professional in to evaluate your dog. Do you have a schutzhund close near you? I would call that club and talk to them to find a good trainer that understands German Shepherds.
 
#31 ·
Jax, I am merely pointing out that the dichotomy of the attitudes on this forum is incredible and never fail to astound me. There were posts made calling to euthanize the dog without even asking for all of the info on the situations. Or what kind of help the OP was looking for exactly.
 
#34 ·
I would rule EVERYTHING else before opting to putting the dog down. The dog is still young and there is a chance he can be helped. I would seek advice from a GSD rescue, a behaviorist/trainer that specializes in GSDs.
 
#36 ·
All I am going to say is its a shame that a biting GSD is so common these days and seems to be accepted so readily with different reasons: resource guarding, health, herding, playing, etc.
And the common reply is " trainer, behaviorist, let it mature, keep it away from people in your house, etc.
What happened to a person letting the dog know that the house is Mine, the food is Mine, other people are above the dog and you accept that, people can walk in the house because its Mine. I am the boss and YOU the dog will accept what I am saying and doing without question. It seems that so many people are so afraid to dicipline their dog anymore and only want to show them love and kindness and no dicipline that these same dogs are taking over the owners lives. Nobody can come in the house, kids can't come around, strangers can't pet your dog, the dog tries to lunge and bite kids and strangers.... I just don't understand WHY its okay for your dog to bite someone for any reason.
My grandkids walked into my home two weeks ago, Holly has not seen them since 9 weeks old. She is now almost 8 months old.She greeted them with wagging tail and kisses. My daughter, her boyfriend and his two children, both under ten, arrived today and opened the back door and walked into the yard to play with Holly. She had NEVER seen them before, nor the boyfriend. What did she do? Ran up, wagging tail, and gave kisses and played with them. I had absolutely no qualms about these strangers approaching her, playing with her toys, or feeding her. Holly has gone most places with me, including work since she was a baby, and has always been handled by strangers, both kids and adults. She has happily gone into a doggie day care with strange dogs and played for hours with no issues.
It is what I expect of her and she accepts it. It was how I trained my first GSD to do search and rescue. It is how I train all my dogs, they go along with my life and my rules and are healty stable happy dogs.
To me it is sad to see so many pages and pages of GSD that are aggressive, that have bitten people. Just because its a scratch doesn't mean the dog is not trying to do more damage. IF the OP is holding the dog on a leash and its still "biting" a person and scratching, what would be the result if this dog was not on a leash and could freely bite? I am sure you would be seeing significate damage then.
This dog sounds unstable and with many issues. If the OP wants to spend her life with a dog that she can't take anywhere, can't trust to even have family in the house, will attack the neighbors, then that is her choice.
I have always thought the reason to own dogs is to be able to enjoy them and take them places, have family and friends in the home and have a dog that enjoys interacting with their family no matter where they are or who is standing there.
I expect that this dog will at some point get the chance to really attack someone, and I hope the OP is ready for the conquences, nobody can be on guard 24/7 without a slip up for the next ten years or so. Sometimes you have to make a decision that is best for everyone concerned, including the general public, and more specifically your family. For every dog that has severe temperament issues and is a biter, there are ten more waiting for a home without the liability of owning a biter.
 
#38 ·
All I am going to say is its a shame that a biting GSD is so common these days and seems to be accepted so readily with different reasons: resource guarding, health, herding, playing, etc.
And the common reply is " trainer, behaviorist, let it mature, keep it away from people in your house, etc.
What happened to a person letting the dog know that the house is Mine, the food is Mine, other people are above the dog and you accept that, people can walk in the house because its Mine. I am the boss and YOU the dog will accept what I am saying and doing without question. It seems that so many people are so afraid to dicipline their dog anymore and only want to show them love and kindness and no dicipline that these same dogs are taking over the owners lives.
.

I'm curious, what kind of "discipline" to you recommend for a dog that may have fear issues or even true aggression? How exactly to you go about letting the dog know the house and everything in it is "yours"?
 
#39 ·
What happened to a person letting the dog know that the house is Mine, the food is Mine, other people are above the dog and you accept that, people can walk in the house because its Mine. I am the boss and YOU the dog will accept what I am saying and doing without question. It seems that so many people are so afraid to dicipline their dog anymore and only want to show them love and kindness and no dicipline that these same dogs are taking over the owners lives.
However, the dog has been to two different trainers. The issue of discpline has to have been addressed unless the OP just flat out ignores all the training principles. However, I am a bit concerned the owner has given the dog opportunity. You can't say the dog bit a neighbor who wanted to pet it, "oh, my bad". That's not responsible enough. But I digress, apparently, the dog is fine with the owner/spouse. It's people entering the house that is the problem.

Holly has gone most places with me, including work since she was a baby, and has always been handled by strangers, both kids and adults. She has happily gone into a doggie day care with strange dogs and played for hours with no issues.
It is what I expect of her and she accepts it. It was how I trained my first GSD to do search and rescue. It is how I train all my dogs, they go along with my life and my rules and are healty stable happy dogs.
This, of course, is ideal. However this is a 15 month old rescue dog who has been with the family 7 months. Who knows what the early life of the dog was. Could be anything from positive to neglectful to negative.

There really are so many factors to address. Is the dog neutered yet (thinking yes from being a rescue), what is known about the animal's past, are there any health concerns or forms of chronic pain, does this dog have trouble with only male humans who enter the house, is this a scratch or a puncture bite, etc, etc. Sure, a short post on a forum does not give enough info.

IF the dog is a danger to the family too, just an outright "gonna snap at anyone anytime" kind of dog, then letting him pass is the responsible thing. IF the dog is a danger to strangers in general, it can be managed but it is a major responsibility with absolutely ZERO room for errors. The lifestyle modifications need to be pretty extreme and consistent. All members of the household must be dedicated to the protection of all humans during any contact with the dog. IF the dog only has a problem with people coming into the home, yes, perhaps a behaviorist can help, or crating, or making sure gates are locked, the door has a security door, etc. Again, there simply must be ZERO room for errors. The OP cannot put herself legally and morally at risk. However, as the OP said, putting the dog down is not an option. OK -- seek a behavorist/trainer familiar with GSDs and rescue dogs. Until then, you simply must not give the dog any opportunity to bite. Do not allow someone to pet it, do not have people come into the home with the dog loose or even on a leash, secure your perimeter to make sure people cannot get in, post signs of warning, get a DO NOT PET vest for any public walks. If you want to keep the dog, it's time to really up the level of responsibility. Leave nothing to chance.
 
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