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Desperate for help!! GSD has bitten neighbor and stepson

22K views 116 replies 51 participants last post by  jmoney 
#1 ·
My GSD rescue Sam has been with us for 7 mos. He is now 15 mos. I have tried EVERYTHING. 2 trainers, active use of the NILIF protocol. Sam is getting better with other dogs and does listen to me as I have had to use alpha training. He has now bitten 2 of my neighbors and today my stepson! I had to keep him on leash when he entered house, tried moving him over slowly, calm voice and praise. finally he sniffed him and seemed fine, nex t minute lunged and bit his leg!! What am I doing wrong. I train him constantly, very consistent. He has come a LONG way and learned a lot of obedience but aggression getting worse, should i keep muzzle on him around people in the house. I love him and do not want to give him up. PLEASE HELP!
 
#73 ·
One thing I simply can't understand is why people are not using muzzles. They were invented for a reason and if I had a dog at home that bit three people already, that dog would NOT leave the house without a muzzle.

Plus people would actually stay the heck away from a muzzled dog.

Seriously, put a muzzle on that dog!
 
#75 ·
I have not read all of the posts here. Wanted to say I am sorry that you are going through tough times with your dog.

I adopted Nadia when she was 16 months old and she was a nipper. She was very insecure. She would grab someone's leg if they were simply standing in the doorway. Nip at their hands as they stopped petting her. I used to keep people away from her. Limited visitors at my home. Crated her when we did have company. I used a muzzle several times when introducing her to people and to my cats too. I still use a Halti, for times like taking her to Home Depot. Never ever thought I would get to take her there!

Over the course of the past two years, she has improved. It has taken a lot of work, consistency in everything I do, watching her like a hawk, and reading her every movement. Now, she initiates contact with other people. She lays at other people's feet. She rolls over on her back for belly rubs. Her best friend (aside from my male GSD) is my 16 year old Grandson, who visits from Montana every summer.

Don't get me wrong....this is an ongoing process. She is not the kind of dog I would just turn loose and expect her to behave. I do not trust her around kids, because they move fast and are unpredictable. There are still only a small number of people I trust her with totally. But she is so much better than she was when I brought her home, and better than I ever thought possible. I can live with that. She is a mama's girl & I truly do love her no matter what.
 
#76 ·
I"m sorry Brandi, but starvation cases are NOT the same as aggression cases. I'm not going to advocate one way or the other for this particular dog to be euthanized but you can't even begin to compare the three cases you posted with an aggression case.

I live with two boxers. One is people aggressive and the other is dog aggressive. For Banshee, kids were fine. She loves kids. If she knew you before her littermate died, then you were fine. Anyone after was fair game. The mailman will not come to our door because she charges the door with her hackles raised behaving like Cujo.

Nobody..and I mean NOBODY is allowed in our house unless we have her contained. Even outside family are not allowed in the house until the dog is contained. The only people that can come thru that door is me, DH, DD, DS and DS's best friend who as far as Banshee is concerned is one of us. And he shocked the **** out of me when he came through the door one day and she didn't make a peep. When people are inside, we do not let her approach the people. The people can toss her treats from across the room but they are not allowed within touching distance. Even though she never bothered a kid, she was still not allowed free rein around them.

This is management...pure and simple...and it is tiring. You have to be on your game 100% every second. Would we do it again? Absolutely. But we also were very diligent about her aggression. If you are to take your dog out on a leash, then you need to identify him as a dog not to be approached somehow. You need to be watching every second for a child who might decide petting him is the best thing in the world to do at that moment. Otherwise, put up a 6' fence around your yard, clearly marked and let him get his exercise that way. But the word CONTAINMENT is the key word here.
 
#77 ·
I last posted prev evening around 11:30, logging on now I see so many posts of people wanting to help. Since last night I have done a lot of research on hypothyroidism and aggression issues at the suggestion of many members. There is significant research and proof that it does cure aggresion issues if that is the cause. I have found a vet in California that specializes in canine thyroid disorders and I am going to make an appt with my vet for a blood draw to send it out to Ca. If this not the cause, well I am prepared to crate Sam in the house when guests come by. He does know several of my friends and neighbors and they are able to come into the house. It is really hard to know what he is thinking and what causes him to react. If it is fear aggression, perhaps crating him will be to his benefit and make him feel more secure. I will not let him bite again, and yes I know it is a lifelong commitment. I will keep you posted with the results from the thyroid bloodwork.

This is the first time I have ever posted on the internet for any reason. It is amazing how many people responded with positive advice. I will try every option I can to fix this dog. I am starting to believe God gave him to me because he is a challenge and I would not give up without a fight. I believe things happen for a reason. I will also look for a good schuzhund club in my area.

Thank you !!!!!
Sam's mom
 
#79 ·
Be aware that crating him could create frustration and cause barrier aggression. Not saying this will happen but it can. You should muzzle train him. My grandparents had a dog that was muzzled the entire time anyone was there, including us.

What area are you in? Perhaps someone here can recommend a trainer to evaluate him.
 
#80 ·
Sam's mom, please keep updating on this, as you can see 8 pages have many interested and your experience will benefit others that are also going thru the same type situations(as we've read, it isn't that uncommon:( )
Are you sending the thyroid eval to Dr Dodds? That would be my recommendation.
If only it was just a medical issue and not behavior.
Most often, though it is genetic's that have a dog acting this way and as many have posted, lifelong management is key to having the dog live a fairly happy life.
A good trainer will help you learn the right way to manage...I hope you can find one.
 
#84 ·
Sagelfn.

Those are compelling stories.

I don't have a problem with seeing what other issues the dog may have.

I really wish I could come up with the wording to start another thread on this issue because I think that while there will always be disagreements it would helpful to try to understand why we disagree. The subject needs to be discussed with no regard to an individual dog that someone has posted about.

There is not enough information often times to make judgements.

As a general topic about what do we do with dogs who have issues, (medical temperament, aggression) etc...maybe we could all learn something. The thread is very informative but the subject has gone beyond the OP's dog.

A lot of people can't take care of aggressive dogs so what do they do with them?

As I said before in my case I will not have another dog who bites.

Someone else mentioned children. I would kill if necessary to protect my children. Large powerful dogs have injured, maimed, and killed children. So this subject is a very serious one.
 
#85 ·
Jax08,
I have not called the shelter yet because they told me when I adopted that he was very friendly with no agression issues. In their defense he did not seem to when I went to meet him at the shelter. I am not sure what I would say.....

I will take your advice on a new thread to ask for a behavior/trainer
 
#86 ·
Having been there myself, I understand completely. I hope that medical eval., training, management, and the dog's maturity will all mesh and solve this for you. As long as the family's daily safety is intact, your willingness to be 100% committed to adapting is what counts. It's like when a parent has a child born with a disability or a child or spouse who has become injured or ill. It's not the way you dreamed, it doesn't exactly fit the way it is supposed to be, but your love and devotion give you the desire to "make it work" and "make the best of it". There are many things that can be done to give the best life to the dog and to yourself and yet preserve everyone's safety too. Stacey, you have my sincere best wishes.
 
#87 ·
ohhh...so this was NOT a rescue. This was a direct adopt from a shelter. Sometimes as dogs mature the aggression can become more pronounced. He probably didn't show any at the shelter. Do you know if he was an owner surrender or a stray? It would be so helpful to you if you could find that out. If he was an owner surrender, it might be possible to contact the previous owners and find out his background or where they got him from.
 
#88 ·
Thank you Mom2Shamen,
I feel the same, it is not the situation I would have desired, BUT it is my situation and I feel I have a responsibilty to this dog. I read today that 13 MILLION dogs are put down every yr due to behavior issues. We do not abandon or condemn people with mental issues.. I am not comparing dogs with humans, I am just saying that they are at our mercy bc they cannot tell us what they are feeling. If it is a ' hardwire issue' I feel that is similiar to a psych issues
 
#89 ·
I do not believe in euthanizing a dog that has bitten someone once or twice.

I do however believe in euthanizing a dog that has bitten numerous people and if the bites were severe.

I appologize if I read wrong, but if the dog is aggressively lunging at people and his bites were bad then he should be euthanized.

My 14 year old cousin was just mauled by a Bull Mastiff and died on the operating table but was revived. This dog did SERIOUS damage to him. When the police came to get statements from witnesses they said the dog tried to attack a neighbor the week before.

Your dog has already bitten 3 people, how will you feel when your dog attacks a baby or a small child?

I would be LIVID if your dog attacked my child, especially knowing that your dog had already bitten 3 other people.
 
#92 ·
I do not believe in euthanizing a dog that has bitten someone once or twice.

I do however believe in euthanizing a dog that has bitten numerous people and if the bites were severe.
The problem with that is if a dog bites, it bites. There are really no grey areas. It either happens or it doesn't. The dog doesn't think to itself "I'm only going to bite Roger a little bit today and hopefully it doesn't draw blood." If a dog bites, it is intended to do harm.

The extent of the harm done could be determined by several factors such as if the dog was able to get a good hold, was or was not leashed, etc. A dog that bites and doesn't break the skin could bite the next time and send someone to the ER.

If people are willing to make exceptions for their dogs biting people, even if it's only one time, they better be willing to deal with every possible consequence that goes with it including fines, jail time, bodily injury or death of another person or child, major financial loss, stress, and the list goes on.
 
#91 ·
This is why it's good to get several different view points from people in the real world.

I have seen a dog lunge and snap and grab and another lung and snap and grab and what a difference between the two even though the words are the same to describe it.

So good trainers, good behaviorists, good vets, and even going to a vet behaviorist like many universities have - all the while this dog is muzzled if he is going to have or could have any contact with others. All putting together a case of how this dog is going to be managed, or not. Predictable or not? Is it aggression from fear? Territory? Is this a dog who was trained half-butted to bite people before I got them? What do I as the person need to do? Is this a dog that I can make a mistake with once in a while, or if I make a mistake, will something happen truly awful happen that I will no longer be able to control?

Great resources:
Tufts Animal Behavior Clinic : Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine
Welcome to k9aggression.com | Dog Aggression Education, Support and Resources

I have also seen dogs behave aggressively with dogs or people with one person as their caretaker, and be a completely different dog with someone else.

Finding people who can help you IRL will be key. If you want to PM me your general location, I can hopefully link you with people who are in a better position to evaluate your dog than we all are.
 
#99 ·
Ruthie,

Well, when the OP mentioned that they have tried 2 trainers and are practicing NILIF, doing consistant trining, then the dog sniffed the stepson and seemed fine and was lunging and bit his leg the next minute make it seem unprovoked to me. Also, the mention of biting 2 neighbors. It seems unlikley that both neighbors provoked this dog to bite so I am assuming it was again, unprovoked. I guess all we can do is make assumptions based on what people write, and offer opinions and recommendations based on the information we gather.

Dog bites are a big matter. There are tons of threads on here with questions and we never REALLY know what it was like since we are never there for anything. So from what I gather about this dog and the situation, is that it bites unprovoked and is quite dangerous. Just sayin'!

but I agree that a professional needs to evaluate the dog if they choose to keep him. I still firmly believe there is no excuse for a dog to bite a human unless it is being harmed, and if it does, then the dog is dangerous- because any given person could be at risk if they do not personaly know the dog's weaknesses and what causes it to bite, so the owners need to be prepared to deal with consequences.
 
#103 ·
The step-son is 25 not 10.

My brother is getting close to 50. He comes over and torments Cujo, pushing, pushing pushing the dog, staring into his eyes, pushing him, teasing him, riding him (not literally). My mom asks him if he wants to be the first one the dog has to bite. Mom will not put Cujo down if he takes a chunk out of her son. Should she???

This thread seriously saddens me too. We have a puppy here that was abandoned and emaciated before being picked up and dropped at a shelter prior to eight months old. The shelter says he's happy and friendly -- do we know how long they had this dog? And the OP gets the dog, and for seven months has been working with the puppy with the advice of a couple of trainers.

I commend the OP for being loyal to the puppy. I think that maybe the type of training and leadership is not necessarily right for this puppy. And maybe, this pup has genetically weak nerves and no training will be right for it, we do not know. But without someone with good experience who can evaluate the dog, how can we condone any type of action, except management so no one else gets scratched.

I am sorry, but a bite is NOT a bite. When a GSD bites, yes there will be bruising and punctures, and possible stitches. otherwise it is inhibited. A dog that inhibits their bite is STILL giving warnings. Just not the kind of warnings we want them to. But still the dog is not hopeless.

I think people have failed this dog much more than this dog has failed humans.

I hope that we give a pup with a really rocky start a chance, and not just kill the dog because it does not act like someone's puppy that has had all the benefits of good breeding, a good whelping situation, training and socialization experiences, and consistency in the humans that owned it. Of course this pup is going to act differently, might need more training, and the owners may have a tougher road to travel.

Lastly, I suggest that the owner build either in the garage, basement or fenced back yard, a kennel that the dog cannot escape because it has concrete base, nine gage wire and covered over. When there is a question, put the dog in his safe place and keep people away from him. Management is not so painful when you know the dog has a safe and comfortable place to be when the man is there to work on the furnace or the grandkids are over. Having such an arrangement does not mean you lock the dog away forever, it just means you can put him somewhere safe temporarily.
 
#115 ·
The step-son is 25 not 10.

My brother is getting close to 50. He comes over and torments Cujo, pushing, pushing pushing the dog, staring into his eyes, pushing him, teasing him, riding him (not literally). My mom asks him if he wants to be the first one the dog has to bite. Mom will not put Cujo down if he takes a chunk out of her son. Should she???
I agree 100% here. My father was 35 years old when I had my one Rottie. He would torment this dog and rough house despite his warning growls when his hips got sore. I told my father one day hes going to bite you and you will be the first person hes bitten. Sure enough 2 weeks later my Rottie took a chunk out of my fathers face. Did I put him down? No...he was a retired service dog sore, arthritic with bad hips. My father since stopped rough housing when he gave his warning growl and they have been fine ever since. The dog lived another 2 years till cancer took his life. Never bit another person again.

But perhaps I should of put him down because my father needed 13 sitches in his face...no..he deserved every last stitch he got.

OP any updates on the pup?
 
#105 ·
Fear

In the litany of opinions, although one post alluded some dogs behave differently with some people, none have mentioned fear...
Not the fear of the dog, but of the people.

Once the dog has people fearful of it's potential bad behaviors, it multiplies the chances more bites will occur.

The OP may have a calmer and more confident demeanor, but the other people may be feeding the dog fear.

Just saying, can't see or hear the dog or the people so all this armchair coaching is severely handicapped. I have seen a bad situation get worse with the most horrible outcome of the dog being PTS, and it was not the dog's fault in any way. He did what was expected of him, projected by fearful people. They could have given the dog back to the breeder, but chose instead to put him down.

They read us like a book, what are the people projecting?
We can't see or smell fear, but the dogs can.

I would start with the rescue. They may want him back to re-evaluate and to possibly re-home if evaluation goes well.
It's the dog's best chance for success at this point.
 
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