kicked out of daycare!

nanulya · 06-09-2011, 02:44 PM

So my 2yr old has been kicked out of daycare, for the behavior that I have never observed when I am around. I was told that she starts barking at another dog in a high-pitch voice and some dogs don't want to play with her and react with gnarling and showing teeth. The staff at daycare is afraid that this might start a fight and my dog is an initiator of this interaction and was asked not to come back to daycare. Further, the owner of the place went into a whole speech about how GDS are not suited for daycare and given her size she might end up hurting another dog if another dog initiates a fight.

My question is whether a dog be extremely friendly and well-behaved to other dogs when the owner is present but become aggressive when the owner is not around? The reason that I am asking is because I have not a single time seen my dog exhibiting any kind of aggressive (or even simply overly excited) behavior towards other dogs either on a walks on leash or during play time with my friends' dogs or while playing in a neighborhood improvised dog park. and it is not because I was managing her behavior- she never had an inclination to behave aggressively towards another dog.

what should I do? and how can I correct a behavior that i can't observe? Did anyone had similar experience of a dog behaving drastically different when not in your direct presence?

**gsdraven** · 06-09-2011, 02:57 PM

Doesn't sound like she is the one showing teeth or snarling, correct? From what you posted, the daycare owner didn't say your dog was aggressive, they said they were worried about her behavior causing another dog to start a fight.

That high pitched bark is how Kaiser gets Raven to play (and she responds by showing teeth when she isn't interested) and I do correct Kaiser for that awful bark but mostly because it hurts my ears. He's also not the first GSD that I've seen try to initiate play that way.

It sounds like the other dogs were not a match for yours and she was showing frustration because they weren't playing with her. Based on what you wrote here, I don't think her behavior is something to be concerned about but if you want her to continue to be able to play with other dogs in a dog care setting, you need to find one with dogs that match her energy level and play style.

martemchik · 06-09-2011, 02:59 PM

My pup was kicked out for dominance humping. We don't have him neutered and they made an exception for us, but after about a month he stopped being as submissive to other dogs and started testing how far he can get. He does hump around me, and can fixate on females, but I just have to say off and he stops, there it was probably a different story. I don't believe that GSD isn't suited for day care, there are plenty of big dogs in there, but I suggest going to another day care and seeing if they are willing to help you out, maybe go and watch her there for a day (if you have the day off) and see if it is the small space or something that sets her off. In a small space, my boy can easily catch whatever he fixates on, but in a large area like the dog park he has more difficulty and therefore doesn't do it as much.

We were told the same thing, its not that he's aggressive, its that his actions can cause others to get aggressive and fight.

My dog also tries to initiate play with high pitched barks, its at least not as bad as a low bark which would scare most dog owners away, this way they know he's not aggressive and just wants to play. I agree with the energy level/size comment, that might be the way to go.

fuzzybunny · 06-09-2011, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsdraven

Doesn't sound like she is the one showing teeth or snarling, correct? From what you posted, the daycare owner didn't say your dog was aggressive, they said they were worried about her behavior causing another dog to start a fight.

That high pitched bark is how Kaiser gets Raven to play (and she responds by showing teeth when she isn't interested) and I do correct Kaiser for that awful bark but mostly because it hurts my ears. He's also not the first GSD that I've seen try to initiate play that way.

It sounds like the other dogs were not a match for yours and she was showing frustration because they weren't playing with her. Based on what you wrote here, I don't think her behavior is something to be concerned about but if you want her to continue to be able to play with other dogs in a dog care setting, you need to find one with dogs that match her energy level and play style.

I completely agree with this. I would look for another daycare and ask if you could possibly observe for a little while. It sounds like play to me though, not aggression.

Stosh · 06-09-2011, 03:04 PM

Stosh also barks right in a dog's face to initiate play. Seems to scare the heck out of the owners but the dogs either play or blow him off.

selzer · 06-09-2011, 03:21 PM

It sounds like you have a playful young dog, and a doggy daycare unfamiliar and maybe even a little bit afraid of the breed. You do NOT want your dog there, simply because these people do not feel comfortable with your dog. You can try another place, or just take your dog to a pet store or dog classes once a week. No the dog is not turned out with other dogs to play, but he will see them and not be a basket case that he might be if you keep him at home for the next five years and then have to take him to the vet for something.

You and the people living in your house are your dog's pack. He does not EVER have to run and play with another dog. If you let him stay home for two more years, and bring in a new puppy, he will probably be awesome with it.

Right now he is an energetic youth and wants to play, play, play. Other dogs are moving and furry and more interesting than a squeak toy or a ball. But then, so are you. Your dog would be just as happy playing with you, chasing the ball, running over agility equipment, swimming in a river or pond -- the dirtier the funner.

I would not take this personally or try to fix your dog. I would simply adjust your life to play more with your dog, in liu of the exercise he is getting at doggy daycare. Maybe hire a dog walker during the day. Take up schutzhund training. Go to agility classes. Find some sheep and learn herding.

nanulya · 06-09-2011, 03:23 PM

thank you all for confirming what i was thinking! I know my dog, she is not aggressive, but I also did not want to be one of those owners who blindly believe that his dog is just perfect. And term "aggressive" is not something I take lightly.

We went to another daycare where owners have 2 GDSs themselves and she spend a few hrs there and according to the trainer was a bit shy at the beginning but that's about all. will keep you posted if this behavior resurfaces.

crackem · 06-09-2011, 03:24 PM

I doubt your dog is getting aggressive when you're gone. More often than not, dogs are much more reactive when their owners are around than the other way around.

It sounds like barking to initiate play more than anything and it sounds like the day care doesn't want that breed of dog their in the first place and are just looking for an excuse.

nanulya · 06-09-2011, 03:34 PM

Selzer: We do all of that: play fetch everyday, go to obedience and agility classes on a weekly basis, go hiking on weekends, have mind-bending toys at home. But i do travel from time to time and I wanted her to have a place to board that she is familiar with (by going there to daycare 1-2 times a week).

Consistent with what you were saying, the reason why i prob never seen the high pitch bark before is because when she is in the park or with other friends' dogs, her attention is 99% on me . she won't play fetch if some other human throws a ball unless I explicitly tell her to do so. Same is with playing with other dogs: i have to release her before she will play with other dogs. and then she does enjoy herself playing.

selzer · 06-09-2011, 03:46 PM

It sounds like the day care is just not GSD-friendly. They were fine with your dog when she was a puppy, but now they are more concerned as the other dogs are reacting to her.

Other people are so brave with their dogs. I really do not like my dogs running and playing with dogs I don't know and that hesitation/anxiety might change the situation. But I certainly cannot imagine dropping my dog off and letting other people supervise doggy play time. I mean, who is liable if the dogs or the day care people get injured?

If someone takes my dog, puts it in with other dogs, there is a fight, people get hurt breaking it up, I do not want:
A. To pay for my vet for my dog and doctor puncture wounds.
B. Pay for another person to take their dog to a vet.
C. Pay for an ER visit for a DD worker.

I really do not want my dog to ever feel they need to bite someone or another dog. I do not want them to accidently bite.

06-09-2011, 02:44 PM	#1 (permalink)
nanulya Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: VA Posts: 25	kicked out of daycare! So my 2yr old has been kicked out of daycare, for the behavior that I have never observed when I am around. I was told that she starts barking at another dog in a high-pitch voice and some dogs don't want to play with her and react with gnarling and showing teeth. The staff at daycare is afraid that this might start a fight and my dog is an initiator of this interaction and was asked not to come back to daycare. Further, the owner of the place went into a whole speech about how GDS are not suited for daycare and given her size she might end up hurting another dog if another dog initiates a fight. My question is whether a dog be extremely friendly and well-behaved to other dogs when the owner is present but become aggressive when the owner is not around? The reason that I am asking is because I have not a single time seen my dog exhibiting any kind of aggressive (or even simply overly excited) behavior towards other dogs either on a walks on leash or during play time with my friends' dogs or while playing in a neighborhood improvised dog park. and it is not because I was managing her behavior- she never had an inclination to behave aggressively towards another dog. what should I do? and how can I correct a behavior that i can't observe? Did anyone had similar experience of a dog behaving drastically different when not in your direct presence?

06-09-2011, 02:57 PM	#2 (permalink)
gsdraven Moderator Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Mont Co, PA Posts: 4,623	Doesn't sound like she is the one showing teeth or snarling, correct? From what you posted, the daycare owner didn't say your dog was aggressive, they said they were worried about her behavior causing another dog to start a fight. That high pitched bark is how Kaiser gets Raven to play (and she responds by showing teeth when she isn't interested) and I do correct Kaiser for that awful bark but mostly because it hurts my ears. He's also not the first GSD that I've seen try to initiate play that way. It sounds like the other dogs were not a match for yours and she was showing frustration because they weren't playing with her. Based on what you wrote here, I don't think her behavior is something to be concerned about but if you want her to continue to be able to play with other dogs in a dog care setting, you need to find one with dogs that match her energy level and play style. __________________ Jamie Raven (GSD) - December 8, 2007 Kaiser (GSD) - November 2009 Lead The Way Life's Abundance

06-09-2011, 03:21 PM	#6 (permalink)
selzer Crowned Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Denmark, Ohio Posts: 17,498	It sounds like you have a playful young dog, and a doggy daycare unfamiliar and maybe even a little bit afraid of the breed. You do NOT want your dog there, simply because these people do not feel comfortable with your dog. You can try another place, or just take your dog to a pet store or dog classes once a week. No the dog is not turned out with other dogs to play, but he will see them and not be a basket case that he might be if you keep him at home for the next five years and then have to take him to the vet for something. You and the people living in your house are your dog's pack. He does not EVER have to run and play with another dog. If you let him stay home for two more years, and bring in a new puppy, he will probably be awesome with it. Right now he is an energetic youth and wants to play, play, play. Other dogs are moving and furry and more interesting than a squeak toy or a ball. But then, so are you. Your dog would be just as happy playing with you, chasing the ball, running over agility equipment, swimming in a river or pond -- the dirtier the funner. I would not take this personally or try to fix your dog. I would simply adjust your life to play more with your dog, in liu of the exercise he is getting at doggy daycare. Maybe hire a dog walker during the day. Take up schutzhund training. Go to agility classes. Find some sheep and learn herding. __________________ RIP Arwen, CD RN CGC RIP Whitney, RN CGC Jenna, RN CGC Babs, CD RA CGC Herding Instinct Certificate Heidi, RA CGC Tori, RN CGC SG3 Odessa, SchH1, Kkl1, AD Ninja, RN CGC Milla, RN CGC Joy, Star Puppy, RN CGC Dolly & Bear

06-09-2011, 03:46 PM	#10 (permalink)
selzer Crowned Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Denmark, Ohio Posts: 17,498	It sounds like the day care is just not GSD-friendly. They were fine with your dog when she was a puppy, but now they are more concerned as the other dogs are reacting to her. Other people are so brave with their dogs. I really do not like my dogs running and playing with dogs I don't know and that hesitation/anxiety might change the situation. But I certainly cannot imagine dropping my dog off and letting other people supervise doggy play time. I mean, who is liable if the dogs or the day care people get injured? If someone takes my dog, puts it in with other dogs, there is a fight, people get hurt breaking it up, I do not want: A. To pay for my vet for my dog and doctor puncture wounds. B. Pay for another person to take their dog to a vet. C. Pay for an ER visit for a DD worker. I really do not want my dog to ever feel they need to bite someone or another dog. I do not want them to accidently bite. __________________ RIP Arwen, CD RN CGC RIP Whitney, RN CGC Jenna, RN CGC Babs, CD RA CGC Herding Instinct Certificate Heidi, RA CGC Tori, RN CGC SG3 Odessa, SchH1, Kkl1, AD Ninja, RN CGC Milla, RN CGC Joy, Star Puppy, RN CGC Dolly & Bear

06-09-2011, 02:59 PM	#3 (permalink)
martemchik Elite Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,038	My pup was kicked out for dominance humping. We don't have him neutered and they made an exception for us, but after about a month he stopped being as submissive to other dogs and started testing how far he can get. He does hump around me, and can fixate on females, but I just have to say off and he stops, there it was probably a different story. I don't believe that GSD isn't suited for day care, there are plenty of big dogs in there, but I suggest going to another day care and seeing if they are willing to help you out, maybe go and watch her there for a day (if you have the day off) and see if it is the small space or something that sets her off. In a small space, my boy can easily catch whatever he fixates on, but in a large area like the dog park he has more difficulty and therefore doesn't do it as much. We were told the same thing, its not that he's aggressive, its that his actions can cause others to get aggressive and fight. My dog also tries to initiate play with high pitched barks, its at least not as bad as a low bark which would scare most dog owners away, this way they know he's not aggressive and just wants to play. I agree with the energy level/size comment, that might be the way to go.

06-09-2011, 03:04 PM	#5 (permalink)
Stosh Crowned Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: tyler texas Posts: 8,434	Stosh also barks right in a dog's face to initiate play. Seems to scare the heck out of the owners but the dogs either play or blow him off.

06-09-2011, 03:23 PM	#7 (permalink)
nanulya Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: VA Posts: 25	thank you all for confirming what i was thinking! I know my dog, she is not aggressive, but I also did not want to be one of those owners who blindly believe that his dog is just perfect. And term "aggressive" is not something I take lightly. We went to another daycare where owners have 2 GDSs themselves and she spend a few hrs there and according to the trainer was a bit shy at the beginning but that's about all. will keep you posted if this behavior resurfaces.

06-09-2011, 03:24 PM	#8 (permalink)
crackem Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,193	I doubt your dog is getting aggressive when you're gone. More often than not, dogs are much more reactive when their owners are around than the other way around. It sounds like barking to initiate play more than anything and it sounds like the day care doesn't want that breed of dog their in the first place and are just looking for an excuse.

06-09-2011, 03:34 PM	#9 (permalink)
nanulya Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: VA Posts: 25	Selzer: We do all of that: play fetch everyday, go to obedience and agility classes on a weekly basis, go hiking on weekends, have mind-bending toys at home. But i do travel from time to time and I wanted her to have a place to board that she is familiar with (by going there to daycare 1-2 times a week). Consistent with what you were saying, the reason why i prob never seen the high pitch bark before is because when she is in the park or with other friends' dogs, her attention is 99% on me . she won't play fetch if some other human throws a ball unless I explicitly tell her to do so. Same is with playing with other dogs: i have to release her before she will play with other dogs. and then she does enjoy herself playing.

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