Fear Aggression: Guidance and Hope? (way long)

[Adaliska]

Hey there!

Even though I know that fear aggression occurs irrespective of breed, I'm posting in this community because I've read so many threads here, and I really like the no-nonsense advice y'all offer. I beg your forgiveness, in advance, for this long post. But I figure the more accurate the picture, the better the guidance.

I adopted Loki, a German Shepherd pup, when he was 3.5 months old. A young woman got overwhelmed with having a puppy (in addition to another dog) and wanted to re-home him. I'd been looking for a companion for more than a year (I haunted every local pound so regularly that they started making fun of me), so I went to see him.

Shy pup, no question. Took about five minutes for him to come up and start snuffling around me. Sweet and playful, then shying away, by turns. I already knew this wasn't a completely confident puppy.

You ever do something stupid while knowing, all the time, that it's stupid? Sitting there in a tiny apartment with a postage stamp back yard, knowing that this was a slightly fearful pup, that he'd never really been walked, not knowing the breeder or his parents at all, knowing that from eight weeks on, this pup had only really met this young lady and her mother (and heaven knows what kind of socialization did or didn't happen before that), knowing that I had acres of land and an excess of love,and hung I went ahead and adopted him anyway.

I'm an idiot: stipulated.

That said, I barreled into puppy-raising like a house on fire. I live in the middle of nowhere, but every other day, we were in town, walking. First walks? Barked at everyone and everything. Introduction of treats into the program helped loads. Treat before trigger proximity! Treat on approach! Take treats from a child/big dude/kid on a bicycle? Treat-treat-treat! Barking subsided, reserved only for unique profiles, then lessened to the point where I felt we could go to the (dog-friendly) mall. Stellar behavior inside! Pretty good all around...still gets a bit tense when people come flying round a corner at us, but I expect that and we're still working on it.

This whole time, Loki met everyone in my family. I live alone, but he's devoted to the extended family. If one of 'em (sister and kids, her husband, my folks) comes over, he's so happy to see them, he can't get out of his own way. My brother-in-law sometimes inspires submission-peeing in Loki, but the pup will still happily approach him and play. Meeting adults at my sister's or parents' house? One "who the **** are you?" woof and he's happy. With medium-sized kids, he doesn't even bother with the woof and just starts licking hands and nuzzling gently. One possibly-important note: At my sister's place, there are two other dogs. One of them is clearly in charge of the other (and Loki, when we visit).

We go to a dog park about twice a week. He gets plenty of exercise with me on long off-leash walks in the woods every day, but I want him to meet lots of other dogs. And he's beautiful with 'em...wrestle-play, chase-play, he loves it all! Largely ignores the people, but certainly doesn't mind a pat or two. Zero aggression.

Loki is now 8.5 months old (neutered at 4.5 months, by the way). Here's where things get sticky. A friend of mine dropped by. Pulled into the driveway on a motorcycle (which Loki'd seen plenty of in town) and Loki lost his mind. I don't mean he barked. I mean he Lost. His. Mind.

Barking, lunging, snapping, gnashing teeth. He even accidentally nipped my leg a bit in an effort to get past me, but he clearly didn't intend to bite me; his eyes were on the visitor. I was holding the other end of the leash, but he didn't even know I existed right then. I tried to get his attention, calm him down, sit/down commands, anything. I finally had to put him in the house and visit outside.

Another friend, a week later. This one was supposed to stay overnight. Given the history, I had us all meet at my sister's place. Loki was cool. Happy to lick hands and get treats from my friend. We all get in the car to go home. One woof, then all good. At home, passable behavior, except every time my friend left the room and came in again, Loki offered a way-too-intent stare, easily corrected with an "Eh-eh. Come!" and we were okay.

Same friend came back two days later, and I thought I'd just leave a little bit of bacon in a bag for him to give (a leashed) Loki as he approached. Tossed by my friend at a distance, you know? Bark/lunge/snap...until the bacon started coming. Worked great as the distance was closing. Then Loki took treats from my friend's hand, all the way into the house. The peace lasted exactly as long as the bacon did. Then back to Cujo. Oy. There was no calming him this time. Had to take him to my parents' so my friend could stay over without (quite reasonable) fear.

Given that I'm no canine expert (and, as mentioned above, a bit of an idiot), I know I need professional help with my boy, so I'm in touch with an animal behaviorist in Binghamton (NY) for evaluation and training, but she can't see us until June.

If anyone has experience with how to handle visitors and my pup in the interim, that'd be lovely. If anyone has experience with fear aggression and can tell me that this can be overcome with training and patience, please tell me what your experiences are...what did you do? What were the results?

And if anyone can tell me that this is pretty much hopeless, I should hear that, too. Won't give up on the pup who's become such a tremendous part of my life without on helluva fight (and a boatload of training), but it's important that I listen to all input.

Again, sorry for babbling...but any guidance you can offer would be tremendously appreciated. I know I've got a pretty terrific dog. But I also know I've got a pretty terrific dog with some issues which I have to handle, and handle effectively.

Thank you so much,

Adaliska (and Loki)

[Jax08]

I sent you a PM.

[Tessa99999]

Wow! I know your pain more than you can know!!! My Addie is not nearly as awesome actually. We're also working through fear-based aggression. One suggestion I have that I've found that works a bit when meeting new people. When meeting new people I've learned it helps TONS when the territory is neutral. (I think you know this already.) But the real "magic" for us is to talk a walk. A short-ish 20-30 (Longer if your friends are willing) walk does wonders. I think walking builds trust, plus usually if your dog is walking they're too busy focusing on their feet and moving forward/keeping up to react. At the same time they're getting to calm down around the stranger and realize that they aren't really a thread.

I definitely suggest training. It's working wonders with Addie and I. We go to group training at a local (busy) PetSmart and it is doing amazing things. (Squirt bottles are also nice when reactions DO happen. This doesn't work with all dogs though, and can hinder progress with some fearful dogs. So use with caution and take note if your dog begins to shut down with the squirt bottle which isn't good. My Adders just shies away from it and immediate stops whatever she was doing.)

[debbiebrown]

i totally understand the frustration your dealing with i have a young male with similar issues.........i really do think professional guidence will help educate you on how to handle situations with him.......i also think constant exposure with people over and over again is a key, that with knowledge on how to handle him when he starts reacting.........alot of times when dogs react, its a learned behavior and its instinctual unless taught alternative behaviors.......with fear aggressive dogs, its black and white meaning you have to take over and make all their decisions for then, know their triggers and thresholds and forsee situations before it happens.....i would start teaching alot of focus work, working on Obedience etc these things can really help you in situations........don't be scared to give corrections if he is reacting, because he is taking over at that point and you have lost control.....this is where a professional person can help give you the tools to work with.......you can manage dogs like these with the right approach, yes, it might always be under the surface ready to errupt, but being a good leader and controlling things will help him to look to you for guidence before he reacts........its a real learning experience with dogs like these, i don't think most people are prepared to deal with special needs dogs and it takes time patience and the right guidence.......find a good trainer/behaviorist. have him evaluated and go accordingly..........working with a professional can give you the confidence to control things.......

[lonestarag05]

I hate to say it, but this thread terrifies me. I am bringing home my first GSD puppy at the end of this month and I am wondering how prevalent this type of development is with the breed. All ive been doing is telling everyone who asks what great dogs they can be.

[debbiebrown]

hopefully you won't have to deal with this issue, it shouldn't be part of this breeds temperment but it does happen, and you see more and more of it......sad, thats for sure.......genetics, poor breeding choices, and other circumstances contribute to it......biggest is genetics....... thats why really researching and doing your homework before getting a puppy is highly suggested, and even then there can be a genetic fluke.......

[goatdude]

Just visited my vet today. Topic was "can meds help Ruby's aggressiveness". Well, meds along with a behavior training program (counter conditioning and desensitizing) is what we will be doing. The medication is Colmicalm, the training I have already been doing. Hopefully the meds work to even out the dogs moods so training time can be more productive. Speak with your vet. May be worth a try.

[debbiebrown]

in my opinion i would use meds as a last resort, most cases can be worked through with the right training and conditioning....i know alot of behviorists suggest meds i honestly think it for the owner not necessarily for the dog per say.......in other words the dog is medicated and low keyed so the owner is relaxed...........i also think alternative meds should be used before going to the hard core meds.......alot of times if you can take the edge off along with training and conditioning you can have the same results in alot of cases.........unless the dog is totally vicious and has some mental short comings the latter can be a successful plan.....
i think the biggest thing is to find out where the dog is coming from, watching, learning from experiences and putting together an individual training program.......
a good trainer and a determined owner is the key here........

[amac_zeus]

Hi, first time poster here. I'm so glad I've found this website. I have a 5 mos old male GSD and we began training about 3 weeks ago. I've read a couple of books regarding GSD personalities and proper training. One thing you hear lots about is socialization - with other dogs and with other people. What you don't hear is how important that socialization is to occur at YOUR HOUSE or YOUR YARD. I've read five different "aggression" threads here and they all occured at the dogs home. Each case cited lots of socialization at parks, malls, walks, etc.., but not at the owner's house. GSD's are territorial, pack animals and are instinctively not welcoming to outsiders. This programming should start early on in a pups life. My breeder gave me the heads up and my trainer confirmed. Thus, I've had lots of different people over to the house to socialize and "normalize" visitors coming into our home. LONESTARAG, you have a great dog, just keep this in mind when you begin socializing.

IMO, your GSD may be playing the dominate role and feels a need to protect. Make sure you are the alpha in the house and your GSD should follow your lead. Also, neutralization is a concept my trainer preaches. Similar to the idea of desinsitizing, neutralizing your GSD's surroundings simply means they look to you for que on when to act. Simply put, they do not respond to distractions.

Don't loose hope. These actions can be corrected. I think you already know it's going to take time and patience. Keep us informed of your progress. Good luck.

[DWP]

OK. Not an expert and feel free to ignore, laugh, gufaw. My two girls are in/out dogs. In with us, out with us. We have an acre back yard / shop area and people are over at least twice a week and more often than not, five or six times. I never let a new person come in the gate alone, I escort them in to the yard from the house. The girls give thm a bark and sniff and ignore them. After a few minutes they will make another sniff and slowly ask for attention with a look and sit in front of them. Afte a person has been over on a regular basis for a couple of months, they come to the gate and get my attention, which is usually the girls in a dead run, hackles up and big girl barks headed for the gate. I approach the gat, let thm in and greet with handshake or hug. As soon as the girls see the greeting they drop the hackles and because they know them by now, give a sniff and expect a little pet before running back to the shop or whatever they were doing before. Don't know why, but the greeting seems to be their "it's cool" trigger.