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Protective or fearful?

98K views 130 replies 60 participants last post by  Bearshandler 
#1 ·
Just curious.

How do you tell the difference between a dog being protective and a dog being fearful?
 
#50 ·
I think what people aren't realizing is that fear can be a good reaction. A fearful GSD will scare away an intruder or a threat, it just won't know how to seperate the difference between friend and foe. This discussion also makes it sound a little bit like the GSD is a sissy when it reacts out of fear not protective nature. Which isn't the case at all, but I know I would feel that way.

I think a post at the beginning covered it well, a fearful dog is unpredictable, you don't know if it will back down or stand up and fight. If it fights and injures a person you have a liability on your hands, if it runs away, well you might not have the guard dog you were always hoping for.
 
#51 · (Edited)
I think what people aren't realizing is that fear can be a good reaction. A fearful GSD will scare away an intruder or a threat, it just won't know how to seperate the difference between friend and foe. This discussion also makes it sound a little bit like the GSD is a sissy when it reacts out of fear not protective nature. Which isn't the case at all, but I know I would feel that way.

I think a post at the beginning covered it well, a fearful dog is unpredictable, you don't know if it will back down or stand up and fight. If it fights and injures a person you have a liability on your hands, if it runs away, well you might not have the guard dog you were always hoping for.
martemchik, can you elaborate on how a fear reaction is a good reaction?

As you said in the next paragraph, a fearful dog is often unpredictable which IMO is never a good thing.

While it is true they may scare away an intruder, they may also scare away your Grandmom or neice coming to visit or the neighborhood kids. Hopefully the scaring isn't done with a bite in the case of the innocent people. I believe we should want our dogs to be confident in everyday non threatening interactions, not scared.
 
#53 ·
It's hard to explain, but I was thinking along the lines of a break in or an intruder in your home. A fearful dog might scare them away by barking and freaking out. I can't say that the fear reaction is a good one when you're just being approached by someone as that can get dangerous really quickly. That was the idea I had, but I definately believe that an unpredictable dog is not a good thing.
 
#56 · (Edited)
doesnt protection stem from fear? defense? like the dog views something as a threat only a dog with courage will face that threat and have the courage to fight it and not hide when it is pressed by an attacker?? A dog may be scared of an attacker or have fear of it but he will have enough courage and stable mind to overcome the fear and fight.

kinda like a military man when out to war he may fear getting killed but he combats that fear by facing it and charging/fighting anyway he has courage etc.. could be wrong but i thought that what it may/could be?

balanced dog with lot of courage and has defensive drive = protective in face of what that dog may think is a threat?

fearful dog nerv bag unbalaced may not be protecting he is so fearful he is charging and snapping trying to save himself from what he views can be a deadly threat (like a human with a dog phobia)

like i am sure a police dog may even feel fearful sometimes but still a good one will overcome that and still get the job done

BUT I AM NOT SURE SO ID LIKE TO KNOW IF I AM WRONG SINCE I DO NOT HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH THIS AND LOVE TO LEARN!!! also but that would be my thoughts on it.
 
#57 ·
Aggression may stem from fear, but the dog should overcome the fear with courage to fight if there is a real threat.
Nervebags will not do that, they will retreat or do a tag type bite, but won't engage in a fight.
I don't want my dogs to protect me, ever. I want them to be a deterrent only. Though the reason we got my first GSD was the fact that my DH was working nights and people knew I was home alone....so Stomper became my "protector".
Then when we got Onyx, my daughter was having fear issues after a teenager was murdered in our neighborhood. Clover would have let a stranger in, so DH decided to get a GSD again for the deterrent factor.
A crazy will be a crazy no matter if you have a gun or a dog, a gun is a much better weapon than a dog any day.
 
#58 · (Edited)
actually the dog i would think does not even have to have stable or balance to protect for real few dogs out there may be soo aggressive all the time that they will just about bite and fight anyone these dogs will not back down if the person advances or fights them the dog will keep fighting but will even go after someone who means no threat so that would make them unbalanced

the smallest thing may set these dogs off u touch the owner the dog will nail u bad and keep nailing u etc..

no one would like to own a dog like that because of the liabality but i am sure they are out there


onyx girl i dont think a gun i a better protector then a dog they dont sleep in ur room at night watching over you making sure nothing gets into your houe, they dont tell u when someone is snooping around your yard they dont walk you to your car or look after your house while your gone, they wont go out and make sure the coast is clear so u can go outside if you are scared or paranoid someone might grabe you, a dog wont turn on you like a gun will when omeone stronger than u grabs it out of your hands, a gun wont make any noise if you are attacked a lot more reasons why i dont think they are as good.

someone who has anxiety issue or is a victim of violent crime may not be bet suited for a gun if they have shakey hands or are over emotional they could get somone hurt or killed real easy.
 
#59 ·
on the dog vs gun thing i am only talking about certain gsds some gsds have it in them to bite attack for real when they or their owner is under real threat these dogs will get civil real fast but most wont. I was just talking about the ones that will protect. Otherwise yeah most are a detterant which i still think is better detterant then having a gun that no one can see.
 
#60 ·
A GSD should not be a weapon, a gun is....that is the point of my post.
The dog will alert you to get your weapon, and if you are a shaky nervebag, then no, you should not have that weapon, maybe mace would be better?
 
#63 ·
This article has been around the block more than a few times
If I only read one thing about dogs it would be THIS one
It is on many many sites and I only picked this site because it has it as a handy PDF file

http://www.vanerp.net/ilse/GSDINFO/E...emperament.pdf
This was a great article, it explained so many things that I had little to no clue about...
 
#64 · (Edited)
I'm no expert, but I had my first GSD when I was a young boy, he was never sent to any type of training, but he was a very obedient dog, and was a very loyal friend to me to the end, I had cousins that lived next door, and they had a couple of dogs that were kept tied up, they once got loose, and chased my lil brother and I, we had to jump on my uncle's boat, while the dogs were barking n trying to jump up in the boat. My GSD saw this jumped over the fence and got into a real vicious fight with them, Rocky was his name, he comenced to woop on both of their dogs. Once the dogs realized they had no chance, and took of to the front of their house my GSD waited till my brother and I climbed off the boat and jumped over the fence, back to our house, and then Rocky jumped the fence and walked beside us. I'm telling this story, because when my grandfather bought me my first GSD, he knew he came from a litter of K9 pups, so for me, I always thought It was in his genes. That was a long time ago, but from doing my research with my son's puppy I'm banking that based on his genes he will be the same with my son. Thor is 18 weeks, and so far so good with the bond he has with my son. A GSD will alway be my first and only choice for me and my family.
 
#65 ·
the whole fear vs protective thing is not that simple as people make it you can take a dog that has no fear and make it be protective with a threatening eye stare very easy anyy good decoy can do it people can often do this eye stare to a dog by mistake

there are actions people can make that a fearless dog can see as a threat that is not a threat

dogs arent human they do not see the same things as threats as we do a strong dog can often view a human as a threat get protective when that person isnt

my personal dog doesnt view much as a threat though takes her a while to see something as one but whe she does oh boy
 
#66 ·
Well my big bad four year old thought my green muck bucket was a threat this morning. The nasty wind was blowing it and it was moving, and her hair was up and she backed up, went forward to check it out again, and then it moved again and then she backed up again.

My 21 month old puppy trotted right up to it and sniffed it and then went about her business.

Is it fear in the first dog because of the reaction to an inanimate object?

Is it intelligence to be wary of something that has been stationary in the yard for four years and suddenly is moving about?

Is it courage to move forward and check it out even though it should not be moving?

Is it courage or lack of intelligence to run right up to it and sniff it?

Bad wicked muck bucket!











Nasty wicked muck bucket!!!
 
#82 ·
Is it courage or lack of intelligence to run right up to it and sniff it?
Good question! Dogs will sometimes do really dumb things if they don't have any natural caution; but we humans don't seem to want a lot of natural caution in our GSDs. We want them to face a threat with no fear, caution, or tenativeness... of course, sport is highly ritualized and the dogs are trained to the point where they know they won't get hurt. But Police dogs may very well be hurt or killed in the line of duty.

But we all like our dogs to be brave, fearless, and willing to put their lives on the line for us. We as humans value this courage, breed for it, and encourage it... but is it really good for the dogs themselves?

A prime example of this would be the fighting Pit Bull. These dogs are bred to have the highest level of fearlessness and willingness to fight, even if it means they will be seriously injured or killed. This "gameness" is highly valued and sought after. A "game" dog will not quit a fight even when he is losing, or in fact even dying. Basically, in biological terms, the dog has no natural sense of self-preservation. In the wild, this would spell their demise as they would attack any living creature without fear, even a pack of wolves or a bear. This of course is suicide for the dog.

It's an interesting philosphical discussion.

There are also some breeds where there is a fine balance between courage and self-preservation. I'm thinking of breeds used for hunting wild boar; these "bay dogs" must have the courage to find the boar and hold it at bay without attacking it, and will avoid being attacked themselves. This self-preservation is valued, as wild boars are extremely dangerous and good bay dogs are expensive. The hunters will then bring in a "catch dog", often a Pit Bull, to attack and hold the boar, as these catch dogs have no regard for self-preservation.
 
#67 ·
I have read so many threads and stories about this issue. I am still of the opinion that the vast majority of untrained dogs will engage in a fight only as long as they have to and then they will fly like the wind. I have unfortunately witnessed some dog fights in which a very weak nerve dog defended themselves due to the other dog not stopping their attack. The moment the weak nerve dog got the chance, it ran.
A trained dog may engage in a fight because it's confidence and Temperament gives it the drive. Their temperament/nerve/intelligence has been nutured in a very positive way, so they can reason and react by their own decision making or on command.

There are only a few dogs whose temperament is total defense and looks for a fight as they just don't have a shred of fear. Those dogs are just not suited for much more then being confinement watch dogs who are set off on their own to guard a specific area.

Only very seasoned handlers and appropriately trained dogs will have the full scope protection qualities in a bad situation. I think most owners should be happy with having a dog that will cause a wrongdoer to have second thoughts. If someone finds themselves in one of those bad situations and your dog steps up and between you and the threat, well you are lucky and have a well bred dog. I personally would like to think that my dogs of the past and the new pup I have just gotten is one of those, but in no way will I place that expectation on them. I just would him to look like he could do some damage.
 
#68 ·
also what selzer said a dog that will avoid a chain saw while it is on fearful?


a dog that will touch a chainsaw while it is on and get its face shredded?


a lot of it has to do with the dogs common sense a dog with solid nerves should have some survival skills/brain gives it a sense of caution.
 
#71 ·
Lucia mentions in the BH before Schutzhund about the rowdy crowd and the drunk patting you on the shoulder, etc. Very interesting. I will be getting a male pup in a couple months and am seriously thinking of Schutzhund. It seems to me that a dog NOT barking up a storm like 99% of most dogs do when someone strange approaches their leader is something that can't be taught? I can't imagine what training one would do with a pup to train them NOT to bark when strangers in a rowdy crowd are approaching and touching? Any advice? Thanks, John.
 
#73 ·
just my 2 cents, my dogs' older brother goes to group homes of adult men with my daughter, she works there, he goes everywhere, he is totally steady. He has zero aggression with these men who may make sudden aggressive type movements when they are asked to do what they don't want to do. Sin has never done anything.

One night going home from work, someone came out the supposed to be locked bike garage at their appt complex, charging toward Rebecca, Sin roared once and lunged forward to the end of his leash. The man stopped turned and ran the other way off the property. Sin immediately settled back down when the man ran. Rebecca hadn't had time to act scared until it was over, but she does feel the man was a threat, and she was in potential danger. Was Sin afraid?? I don't think so, startled maybe, but she said he had been more alert and staring when she got him from the car, I believe that was protection.

And he has what I believe is excellent temperment.
 
#74 ·
#75 ·
WEll Diane I read your article, I do NOT agree with all of it although most of it I do. I assume you said for em to read it after my telling about my daughter's dog, but I still maintain he has proper temperment. Thsi happened at 5 yrs of age, he has never before or since shown any type of behavior like this. He doesn't growl/lunge/hackle and is a good enough disposition to go to work with different abled individuals.

I do not think Von Stefanitz intended for all dogs to pass the schutzhund tests to be able to be bred, lets all be honest he devised the tests after he started breeding. This dog is not being used for breeding, he is an AM/CAN showlines the same as mine and has done everything she has trained him for, sadly she doesn't trial him, he would have his HT, at least the first few agility titles, and probably his CDX and TD.

Temperments can be proper from many lines and I think we would have the breed originator turning over in his grave if he heard we are all to protect our GS instead of expecting them to show some real, not pretend guarding instincts.
 
#77 ·
Is this good nerve? or what would you all call this? I was on a walk , dusk . off leash, alone one eve.
Got into an argument with another dog walker, My dogs were ignoring his, his dog was agressivly in my dogs face. When he started speaking to me in an threatening tone, Louie my 3 1/2 yr old took notice. Louie just sat down and calmly was watching the encounter. The man finally started to walk away, after about 50- 100 ft he suddenly turned around and started walk towards me again speaking threatenly. Louie jogged towards him , stopped about 20 ft from him, and just stood there. I told the man (not know if my statement was true) that my dog wold protect me and that he should stop walking towards me. the man stopped for a few seconds then started in again walking towards me and shouting. Every step he took Louie stepped closer to him, no growling , or barking just on high alert. I repeated my self to this man as I was getting concerned, I had no idea what Louie would do, The man finally noticed that Louie was on full alert to him, at this point the man decided that my dog truly may protect me, turned around at stalked off. Louie watched him until I recalled him , running back to me all tail waggy and happy. Needless to say I was proud of my boy. At the same time I was made aware of the loyalty of my boy, what I have in a dog and am more aware of my surroundings now.
So is that an example of nerve or something else? I posted this on another thread, I believe it was protective, he sure seemed confident
 
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