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my buddies pitbull

27K views 245 replies 25 participants last post by  selzer 
#1 ·
a buddy of mine has acquired a shelter dog but when I tried to introduce it to my German Shepherd (9 months old) it got really aggressive, snarling and growling. It didn't go well so my dog and I left. I guess it's done the same thing with another dog and he wisely used a muzzle during that occasion.
The dog is less than a year old, still a pup, he seems very people friendly but I think it was sheltered because it was a dog fighter or something.

I'd like to try another meeting between the two dogs as long as the pitbull is muzzled. I certainly don't want my dog attacked and I don't want to be in the middle of a dog fight but given that these dogs are both less than a year old how serious can this pitbulls problem be? As I said he's really affectionate with people but so far he's met a few dogs and reacted aggressively...my dog just looked at him as if he had some mental problems or something...

any advice?? This dog has learned to live well with his cats at first he chased and chomped on one, but now he doesn't mind them at all. Will this dog ever be able to be around other dogs?
 
#215 ·
I hate to say it, and no need to BANG HEADS as I am no more frustrated with you than you are of me, but I have read MANY studies regarding this topic and I still opt to believe what I do.

I do not go around spewing my opinion in public, but rather enjoy the discussion and hoping to gain some knowledge even from people I do not necessarily agree with.

So I leave this discussion, not defeated but for the sole purpose that there is no longer anything to gain. I have visited your links, read what you have provided and still conclude what I believe. Unfortunately, what was once a good back and forth refuting with knowledge has now turned into an attack through "YELLING" and simple rudeness.

Since this is a Shepherd forum that I enjoy I would rather not push and continue to live my belief and rehabilitate/train out DA in "pit bulls".
 
#217 ·
Since this is a Shepherd forum that I enjoy I would rather not push and continue to live my belief and rehabilitate/train out DA in "pit bulls".
Well, just make sure you stay away from any thread that might talk about inherent traits in the GSD. Since you don't believe in them in the Pit Bull, I would suspect you don't believe in them in the GSD either.
Sheilah
 
#216 · (Edited)
Valreegr or anyone else who wants to take a stab at itl- explain this one, my friend has a Pit Bull since he was 8 weeks old from a reputable breeder who DOES NOT(not yelling just wanted to clarify :)) breed fighting dogs. He's 1 1/2 old and has DA despite being to every dog OB class under the sun and in Dock Diving events since he was at least 10 weeks old, never been in a fight, lives with another dog, never even seen a dog fight and is very well socialized with other dogs until his DA showed up, so how do you explain his DA when he was never in a chance to be DA through "environment"?

just curious on what your explanation would be since you seem to think that DA is environmental and not genes :)
 
#219 · (Edited)
Wow! Your right, it is all in the genes.

Haha!

I am going to say "no idea". There are so many factors to play in this scenario that I couldn't begin to give an explanation without a proper assessment. Is it true DA or is the dog in question simply reactive? Medical issues? Etc.

Well, just make sure you stay away from any thread that might talk about inherent traits in the GSD. Since you don't believe in them in the Pit Bull, I would suspect you don't believe in them in the GSD either.
Sheilah
This is why I will no longer partake in this thread as it pertains to the original discussion. I never said there is no such thing as inherent traits, just that without nurture those traits will never "come about" or "show".
And how hard is it to agree to disagree without getting nasty. I hope that I have handled my beliefs in a dignified way without reaching this point. And a forum, is just that, a forum. It is where people gather to "give opinion" and that has been exactly what I have done.
 
#225 ·
So based on mostly this one puppy out of a litter, or more likely out of all the litters this reputable breeder has had over the years; you are believing that pit bulls "have DA in the genes"????? What about all the genes in the other pits from this very same breeder and even more so in the genes of all this poor dogs littermates? If it is in fact hereditary for pit bulls to be DA - why aren't all, or any, of the other related pits showing DA?

Certainly doesn't sound like "it's in the genes" to me.

And what about other breeds? Do they have it "in the genes". Certainly other "fighting dogs" would, wouldn't they? Or is the "in the genes" unique to the pit bull?

I assume from your talk about genes that you are aware of how inheritance works, correct? Dominant/recessive, single and multi gene inheritance?
 
#227 ·
ugh never mind. apparently you don't want go read the facts with the links that I have so generously provided for you to read and learn.
 
#229 · (Edited)
You just don't understand how much your "opinion" is wrong to those that have knowledge and experience with the breeds and such a firm understanding of them.
This is exactly why I will no longer comment on the subject, you have shut down to even consider and research another side.
Once and for all......dogs in general can be predisposed to certain behaviors through genetics, but those behaviors will not arise unless nurtured, DA included period. That is my final answer.

Consider Bloodhounds, in the 19th century they were "man killers" (PA along the same lines as DA). Would you say today that Bloodhounds carry the genetic make-up for PA and it's only a matter of time until they show that behavior?

All dogs are born with a "blueprint" of what makes up the breed genetically, but it is just that, a blueprint. Not written in stone, meant to be changed and altered throughout life.

Here you go: http://www.blessthebullys.com/id123.html
Science changes, there was just an article in Time magazine showing that change: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1951968-3,00.html
 
#230 ·
And another: Nature vs. nurture Happy Pit Bull

These are all articles showing that although genetics predisposed, behaviors are "mostly" environment, which is what I have been trying to get across all along.
Disclaimer: Science continues to change and evolve and if we are not open to that evolution of change we will be stuck in a rut, along with our dogs.
 
#235 ·
And another: Nature vs. nurture Happy Pit Bull

These are all articles showing that although genetics predisposed, behaviors are "mostly" environment, which is what I have been trying to get across all along.
Disclaimer: Science continues to change and evolve and if we are not open to that evolution of change we will be stuck in a rut, along with our dogs.

Very well put!
 
#231 ·
I'd like to try another meeting between the two dogs as long as the pitbull is muzzled.
Why?? :thinking: Dog aggression in Pitbulls is genetic. Once they taste a dog fight, you cannot stop them. :nono: I just don't see why you need for them to be buddies??? Plenty of other dogs out there that will be nice with your dog. My dogs NEVER play with other dogs except for my own. I understand pet owners feel their dog has to play with other, but why with a dog that you already know has dog aggression???
 
#232 ·
My GSD has been raised with a DA Akita. The Akita is labelled an aggressive dog because she killed a Lab, she killed a GSD mix and severely mangled a Lhapso Apso. She was 10 years old and he was 11 weeks old when they started playing with each other. I did not trust her and I did not want my puppy around her because I was afraid of what she might do to him. Well while I was at work my boyfriend at the time was secretly letting his friend bring his Akita over to play with my puppy. It happened several times before he finally told me. I was furious and couldn't believe he would do that behind my back especially because he was MY puppy. Well my boyfriend talked me into letting her come over and play with him and I can honestly tell you that she was so gentle with him. She licked his face, she walked around with him, she played with him, she let him jump all over her and chew on her. It was almost like watching a mama and her baby. They are still great friends and they see each other at least once a month, but they are never left alone together.
 
#233 ·
Well, despite the fact that your BF needed a lobotomy (and I think you said something maybe not that strong) there ARE DA female dogs who are okay with puppies for whatever reason and can accept them then as they grow. I would not have chanced it on a dog that killed 2 dogs and hurt another.

BUT apparently in the OP's case this dog already went at the puppy I believe. So I would say, no pup for you!
 
#234 ·
to the OP. I don't think getting them together again is a good idea, wither the Pit is muzzled or not it went after your pup once it will probably do it again. I would strongly advise not to get them together again.

when we introduced my GSD to my friends DA lab we introduced them by scent for almost a year, they never saw each other ever. one day we decided it was time to see if they'll get along, so we took them on a walk in neural territory. after fighting my friend for a bit the Lab settled down and accepted my GSD. we were able to walk them with each other each on a right short leash ready to move away incase the lab showed any aggression what-so-ever. they were never allowed loose leash with each other, they did very well but we knew if he Lab showed any aggression it wouldn't work and we would never be able to get them together again. we did the same thing with her DA Pit took us amost a year to finally get them together and it worked, they are never left alone unsupervised, because her Pit is becoming more dominate and my Gsd is a dominate male and that can cause a problem.
 
#236 ·
I wouldn't put them together either- why risk injuring your dog cause muzzles do come off or emotionally scaring your dog. If you allow your dog to be dealt with aggressively by other dogs you will condition your dog to think to fear other dogs- not a good idea.

On the topic of genetic DA in pits anyone who doesn't believe this has never owned an APBT. There are exceptions just like some GSD's are not aloof but one of the breed characteristics is aggression towards animals and a love of people and children. It has nothing to do with environment. I know a few dog friendly pits who play with my dogs well all the time, but most I know do not play well with other dogs. It's just how it is:)
 
#237 ·
This is a great experiment on breeding foxes for both decreased and increased aggression. Started in 1959 and continuing today.

Domesticated silver fox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I had grown up with GSDs since I was a baby and had no experience with pits(many different varities) untill my mid 20s. I had quite a few preconcieved notions that were wrong. Pits are generally not human aggressive unless trained to be so. Most are such babies with humans it is hard to believe they can be aggressive. DA is much more common, but has to be evaluated by both the individual and the lineage. Many are not DA, but often others can be DA without any training or apparent reason. I have seen those that are extemely AA(animal aggressive) and will kill any small animal and is not DA at all. Others are only DA when the other dog will try to show dominance over them. Others are aggressive with all dogs that are not part of their pack.

Genetics plays a large part with this and any breed, not just for aggression, but for many traits such as herding, tracking, protection and more. Look at GSDs, how many show line shepherds bred in the US are suitable for police or protection work? Our one shepherd Sarah would catch balls just as easily with her paws as with her mouth, we could not train another shepherd to duplicate what she could do with her front feet.

It is impossible to know the history or lineage of most shelter dogs. Alot of dogs that people suspect of being abused may have not been abused at all, but suffer from weak temperments from poor breeding or lack of socialization.

I was wrong when I was younger about the 'pit bull' breeds. You have to carefully evaluate each individual. I do the same with each shepherd that I allow into my home. Pits are a wonderfull breed that exceptionally loyal with their owners and family. They are not perfect and suffer from many of the stigmas and poor press that afflicts many of the labled breeds. I remember when dobermans were labled as devil dogs and uncontrollable. Dobes are also wonderfull dogs that had been given a very bad rap. With that said, however, pits are capable of very dangerous damage to other dogs when unsupervised. Most other dogs do not know how to cope with a pit attack. GSDs are happy when they are put to work, most of the pit type breeds are just as happy fighting with other dogs. They were initally bred to be a fearless fighter of other animals including dogs. They are not demons, just need to be carefully evaluated and watched with their interactions with other dogs.
 
#238 ·
This is a great experiment on breeding foxes for both decreased and increased aggression. Started in 1959 and continuing today.

Domesticated silver fox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.........................

Very interesting experiment.

If one believes that DA in pits is genetically based, then this experiment shows just how quick that inherited behavior can be altered dramatically in a population simply by selecting against it. So if one believes that MOST pit breeders (except for those still fighting them) do not want or select for DA, it should disappear (almost!) in only a few generations, I would expect.
 
#246 ·
I am sorry if I did not go through all 25 pages and am maybe parroting something someone else said, but not all dogs NEED to get along with other dogs. If I owned this pitt bull, then, I probably would just manage him. I would train him to tolerate other dogs at a distance and keep him safe from any dog fights, but I would not try to have other dogs play with him.

If I owned the GSD, then this is one home I would not take my GSD to. Especially a puppy. Bad experiences for puppies can last a bit longer and have more consequences. No reason for your dog to go EVERYWHERE with you and see everybody's dogs.

I too have been in training classes with pitt bulls. One in particular was big and intimidating, but the best dog and not dog aggressive at all. Many shepherds in training classes have made me more concerned. And for some reason, the chocolate labs are the only ones that ever seem to go for me. LOL!
 
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