My dog just bit someone.......I am beside myself..... - Page 4

PaddyD · 02-10-2011, 10:40 AM

Sorry for your incident. Maybe the young man realizes he made a stupid mistake and is taking the blame on himself ..... he learned a lesson. As for the dog pulling you over ... my dog weighs 70 pounds and I weigh 190 and am in fairly good shape and she can pull me over any time she wants. Prong collar seems like a good suggestion but especially TRAINING and more socialization.

mtmarabianz · 02-10-2011, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaddyD

Sorry for your incident. Maybe the young man realizes he made a stupid mistake and is taking the blame on himself ..... he learned a lesson. As for the dog pulling you over ... my dog weighs 70 pounds and I weigh 190 and am in fairly good shape and she can pull me over any time she wants. Prong collar seems like a good suggestion but especially TRAINING and more socialization.

The young man got bit, that's makes him the victim, & Not to Blame.
For him to be to blame, he would have to be on Your property, when he didn't belong.
Contol the dog, or don't take it around people; think the law is on the side of the victim.

vicky2200 · 02-10-2011, 08:10 PM

Dakota has bit and drawn blood. Daisy has bit kids, yes kidS, but never drew blood. I think Dakota's people issues may stem with the imbalance in his brain (he is epileptic.) We keep him away from people as best as we can, and when people come over instruct them to just leave him alone, and he is fine. Daisy on the other hand, has always been a bit off with strangers. We've had her since she was about 6weeks and took her places, but strangers make her nervous, especially kids. The new rule is no kids by daisy. She does OK with adults, just gets a bit nervous. Id suggest, as many did, to see a trainer, but you may just have to keep him away from strangers and make sure you wear better boots.

hunterisgreat · 02-11-2011, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaddyD

Sorry for your incident. Maybe the young man realizes he made a stupid mistake and is taking the blame on himself ..... he learned a lesson. As for the dog pulling you over ... my dog weighs 70 pounds and I weigh 190 and am in fairly good shape and she can pull me over any time she wants. Prong collar seems like a good suggestion but especially TRAINING and more socialization.

I'm 137lbs and neither of my dogs have ever put me on the ground with an agitation collar (2 inch wide flat collar designed to let the dog pull full force) or full harness. Neither has been able to drag me either. Not even together on a Y line. Technique, not dead weight wins the day

Deuce'sMom · 02-14-2011, 07:36 PM

Thank you all for your input, and special thanks to those who offered support and constructive ideas. Update: The young man missed a day of work, went and had a tetnus shot, no infection and is recovering. His hand is still bruised. We dropped off a card last night when we checked on him (he wasn't home) and included a gift card as a thank you for his understanding. The public health department called to question whether our dog had rabies shots and other vaccinations but so far, we have not been contacted by any other "official" body.

The last week has been a tough one for all of us. Deuce has been EXTREMELY reactive to everything since the bite incident, but we have put our foot down in areas where we had perhaps slacked - such as his behaviour on walks. We now are intensely aware of what he is focusing on and correct as necessary. Its been a tough week as I said, but he is responding.

Most importantly, we hired a new trainer who will be here Weds evening for the 1st session (4 hours???). She has asked that for now he sleep in his kennel every night with the door closed. That isn't a problem for him - he spent at least 1/2 the night in there anyway and he regularly relaxes in his kennel so this was not a punishment. She has a reputation as a "boot camp" type trainer so hopefully this will help us. She has a reputation for being extremely rough - so we'll see.

I spoke with one trainer who is used to training labs but has had great success with e collars. He made a comment that just infuriated me. He said he would not take my dog on as "once they have tasted blood......that is a big problem...." GIVE ME A BREAK. He is a dog, not a shark. Has anyone ever heard someone say that about a dog??????

Just to let all of you know, it is not as if we have never trained or socialized this dog. We have done 7 obedience classes and at 19 months of age he actually tested and qualified to be a therapy dog. It was shortly after that when he became reactive so we never did do any therapy work. I don't know the reason that he became so reactive as he matured. He does not guard his food, gets along well with other dogs at daycare and the dog park, isn't fond of kids (I know they scare him so we keep them separated), does not sleep on the bed or sit on the couch or steal food or get in the garbage, etc, etc. He will sit/stay (but not real solidly) and waits for all food until we tell him "okay" to eat.

This is not a wild I AM THE BOSS dog. I get the impression from some of your replies that people felt this was the case. There definitely ARE situations where he is difficult to control and unfortunately all of the bad things that could have happened at once - did, and the young man was bitten. I still feel sick about it.

The one thing the young man and I agree on is that everything happened very quickly. For those who don't remember, my dog focused on him then (I missed him being so focused), we had had a winter ice storm so there was ice on top of a layer of snow, and when he lunged I fell down, was dragged by the lunging dog as I yelled NO, NO...GO...... which appeared to have the effect of frightening my dog - but the young man says he never heard me.

Anyway, I will keep an open mind and see what this training is. Perhaps this is the wake up call we needed (abrupt but necessary) to get him under firm control.

Again, Thank You for all who have been understanding and supportive. If anyone has any experience with these "John Wayne type trainers - rough and tough and don't take no s**t from anyone" I would like to hear about it. Thanks.

Donna

selzer · 02-14-2011, 09:13 PM

I am sorry this all happened.

I have never had a dog bite anyone so I really do not have anything useful about what types of training will be best for him.

I am curious as to how it goes for you and him.

I would suggest reading a few books while in the process of training with him, gives you a bigger knowledge base to go with when deciding to take or reject advice. The Dog Listener by Jan Fennel is good. I guess the more information you have the better you will be at determining whether what is going on is what is needed for your dog.

I understand you are between a rock and a hard place. Without serious training, another incident might be devastating to you and your dog.

Good luck.

**gsdraven** · 02-14-2011, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deuce'sMom

She has asked that for now he sleep in his kennel every night with the door closed. That isn't a problem for him - he spent at least 1/2 the night in there anyway and he regularly relaxes in his kennel so this was not a punishment. She has a reputation as a "boot camp" type trainer so hopefully this will help us. She has a reputation for being extremely rough - so we'll see.

I'm glad to see that you are taking steps to improve Deuce's behavior and that you have enlisted the help of professional. Did he used to sleep on the bed or furniture?

While I think a "boot camp" type if situation may be what he needs if it is done right. I just want you to remember that this is your dog and if something doesn't feel right, it probably isn't. Don't let this "rough" trainer do something you aren't comfortable with just because you think it is the only way. I do think that a dog with aggression or that has bitten needs a very structured "boot camp" type environment where you are controlling everything but I don't think you need to be rough on the dog (thinking harsh corrections) in order to do it. Dogs respond to fair leadership. ETA: I am not bashing the trainer because obviously I don't know what she is going to do but that is the impression I got when you mentioned she has a reputation for being "rough".

I hope everything goes well and am looking forward to your update after your training session.

Deuce'sMom · 02-14-2011, 10:41 PM

I mentioned in it my post, but my post was long .... Deuce has never slept on a bed nor is he allowed on any furniture. As I said, this requirement of the trainer's that he sleep in his kennel will not exhibit any greater control over him because he already slept there at least 1/2 the night and likes it in there.

I would appreciate people's comments on the following which was also in my previous post:

I spoke with one trainer who is used to training labs but has had great success with e collars. He made a comment that just infuriated me. He said he would not take my dog on as "once they have tasted blood......that is a big problem...." GIVE ME A BREAK. He is a dog, not a shark. Has anyone ever heard someone say that about a dog??????

............... as well as anyone's comments about experiences with a "John Wayne Type" trainer.....

Thanks all

selzer · 02-14-2011, 10:49 PM

Yes, I have heard it. It is a myth like any other myth, like, "it will turn on you" etc.

Once the dog has bitten someone, you do KNOW something about your dog. You KNOW that his bite threshold is not that high. Most dogs will do many things prior to biting and biting is a last resort. They will run away, they will bark, they will growl, they will snap, they will yawn, they will get behind you, they will totally shut down and submit rather than bite. But you cannot count on any of this. Never again can you say that you did not realize your dog would ever...

Because you KNOW that your dog, if provoked and given the opportunity, will bite. It has nothing to do with "once they have tasted blood."

Can you get better control of your dog, and learn to read his body language better, and get a good understanding what type of aggression you are dealing with? Certainly, all done with training and leadership and management.

I think you are better off without the lab trainer. He does not feel competent to deal with your dog. Good, move on. There is NO point in getting worked up about some stranger's ideas about dogs.

krystyne73 · 02-14-2011, 11:21 PM

I am sorry for the stress you are going through. I have a Great Dane with the same issues. He came to us having already bit several people but we thought the family had caused the issue. Nine long years and trainers, medication never really helped. He is just older now and slower to react to anything.

(Long story)
Max bit my son the first day we got him, while he was petting him. Then a few months later my friend was petty him and he turned around, with no warning or growl, and latched on to her arm. She had mild puncture wounds and luckily it all worked out. After that, it was just damage control. We learned his pattern of attack and haven't had an incident since his first year outside of the home.

Max, back in his younger years, has dragged me across the street almost dragging me in front of a moving car barking at people! It was those stupid shoes walking in water that did me in. Now if I step in a puddle I dry them in the grass quickly.

My advice: Don't give up, just keep trying to find a behaviorist/trainer to help your dog. Be aware of your surroundings. I found with Max, if there was someone walking by that I would turn and walk us the other way. Still it is hard to prepare for people approaching. Get a better lead and some good traction shoes while training. Good luck!

02-10-2011, 08:10 PM	#33 (permalink)
vicky2200 Master Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 587	Dakota has bit and drawn blood. Daisy has bit kids, yes kidS, but never drew blood. I think Dakota's people issues may stem with the imbalance in his brain (he is epileptic.) We keep him away from people as best as we can, and when people come over instruct them to just leave him alone, and he is fine. Daisy on the other hand, has always been a bit off with strangers. We've had her since she was about 6weeks and took her places, but strangers make her nervous, especially kids. The new rule is no kids by daisy. She does OK with adults, just gets a bit nervous. Id suggest, as many did, to see a trainer, but you may just have to keep him away from strangers and make sure you wear better boots. __________________ Dakota GSD mix- 8yrs old Ditto GSD- 3yrs old Daisy Alaskan Husky- 2 yr old Weegee Toy Poodle- Puppy

02-14-2011, 07:36 PM	#35 (permalink)
Deuce'sMom Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 157	Thank you all for your input, and special thanks to those who offered support and constructive ideas. Update: The young man missed a day of work, went and had a tetnus shot, no infection and is recovering. His hand is still bruised. We dropped off a card last night when we checked on him (he wasn't home) and included a gift card as a thank you for his understanding. The public health department called to question whether our dog had rabies shots and other vaccinations but so far, we have not been contacted by any other "official" body. The last week has been a tough one for all of us. Deuce has been EXTREMELY reactive to everything since the bite incident, but we have put our foot down in areas where we had perhaps slacked - such as his behaviour on walks. We now are intensely aware of what he is focusing on and correct as necessary. Its been a tough week as I said, but he is responding. Most importantly, we hired a new trainer who will be here Weds evening for the 1st session (4 hours???). She has asked that for now he sleep in his kennel every night with the door closed. That isn't a problem for him - he spent at least 1/2 the night in there anyway and he regularly relaxes in his kennel so this was not a punishment. She has a reputation as a "boot camp" type trainer so hopefully this will help us. She has a reputation for being extremely rough - so we'll see. I spoke with one trainer who is used to training labs but has had great success with e collars. He made a comment that just infuriated me. He said he would not take my dog on as "once they have tasted blood......that is a big problem...." GIVE ME A BREAK. He is a dog, not a shark. Has anyone ever heard someone say that about a dog?????? Just to let all of you know, it is not as if we have never trained or socialized this dog. We have done 7 obedience classes and at 19 months of age he actually tested and qualified to be a therapy dog. It was shortly after that when he became reactive so we never did do any therapy work. I don't know the reason that he became so reactive as he matured. He does not guard his food, gets along well with other dogs at daycare and the dog park, isn't fond of kids (I know they scare him so we keep them separated), does not sleep on the bed or sit on the couch or steal food or get in the garbage, etc, etc. He will sit/stay (but not real solidly) and waits for all food until we tell him "okay" to eat. This is not a wild I AM THE BOSS dog. I get the impression from some of your replies that people felt this was the case. There definitely ARE situations where he is difficult to control and unfortunately all of the bad things that could have happened at once - did, and the young man was bitten. I still feel sick about it. The one thing the young man and I agree on is that everything happened very quickly. For those who don't remember, my dog focused on him then (I missed him being so focused), we had had a winter ice storm so there was ice on top of a layer of snow, and when he lunged I fell down, was dragged by the lunging dog as I yelled NO, NO...GO...... which appeared to have the effect of frightening my dog - but the young man says he never heard me. Anyway, I will keep an open mind and see what this training is. Perhaps this is the wake up call we needed (abrupt but necessary) to get him under firm control. Again, Thank You for all who have been understanding and supportive. If anyone has any experience with these "John Wayne type trainers - rough and tough and don't take no s*t from anyone" I would like to hear about it. Thanks. Donna Last edited by Deuce'sMom; 02-14-2011 at 07:40 PM.*

02-14-2011, 09:13 PM	#36 (permalink)
selzer Crowned Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Denmark, Ohio Posts: 17,498	I am sorry this all happened. I have never had a dog bite anyone so I really do not have anything useful about what types of training will be best for him. I am curious as to how it goes for you and him. I would suggest reading a few books while in the process of training with him, gives you a bigger knowledge base to go with when deciding to take or reject advice. The Dog Listener by Jan Fennel is good. I guess the more information you have the better you will be at determining whether what is going on is what is needed for your dog. I understand you are between a rock and a hard place. Without serious training, another incident might be devastating to you and your dog. Good luck. __________________ RIP Arwen, CD RN CGC RIP Whitney, RN CGC Jenna, RN CGC Babs, CD RA CGC Herding Instinct Certificate Heidi, RA CGC Tori, RN CGC SG3 Odessa, SchH1, Kkl1, AD Ninja, RN CGC Milla, RN CGC Joy, Star Puppy, RN CGC Dolly & Bear

02-14-2011, 10:49 PM	#39 (permalink)
selzer Crowned Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Denmark, Ohio Posts: 17,498	Yes, I have heard it. It is a myth like any other myth, like, "it will turn on you" etc. Once the dog has bitten someone, you do KNOW something about your dog. You KNOW that his bite threshold is not that high. Most dogs will do many things prior to biting and biting is a last resort. They will run away, they will bark, they will growl, they will snap, they will yawn, they will get behind you, they will totally shut down and submit rather than bite. But you cannot count on any of this. Never again can you say that you did not realize your dog would ever... Because you KNOW that your dog, if provoked and given the opportunity, will bite. It has nothing to do with "once they have tasted blood." Can you get better control of your dog, and learn to read his body language better, and get a good understanding what type of aggression you are dealing with? Certainly, all done with training and leadership and management. I think you are better off without the lab trainer. He does not feel competent to deal with your dog. Good, move on. There is NO point in getting worked up about some stranger's ideas about dogs. __________________ RIP Arwen, CD RN CGC RIP Whitney, RN CGC Jenna, RN CGC Babs, CD RA CGC Herding Instinct Certificate Heidi, RA CGC Tori, RN CGC SG3 Odessa, SchH1, Kkl1, AD Ninja, RN CGC Milla, RN CGC Joy, Star Puppy, RN CGC Dolly & Bear

02-10-2011, 10:40 AM	#31 (permalink)
PaddyD Banned Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: MassaCHEWsetts Posts: 5,222	Sorry for your incident. Maybe the young man realizes he made a stupid mistake and is taking the blame on himself ..... he learned a lesson. As for the dog pulling you over ... my dog weighs 70 pounds and I weigh 190 and am in fairly good shape and she can pull me over any time she wants. Prong collar seems like a good suggestion but especially TRAINING and more socialization.

02-14-2011, 10:41 PM	#38 (permalink)
Deuce'sMom Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 157	I mentioned in it my post, but my post was long .... Deuce has never slept on a bed nor is he allowed on any furniture. As I said, this requirement of the trainer's that he sleep in his kennel will not exhibit any greater control over him because he already slept there at least 1/2 the night and likes it in there. I would appreciate people's comments on the following which was also in my previous post: I spoke with one trainer who is used to training labs but has had great success with e collars. He made a comment that just infuriated me. He said he would not take my dog on as "once they have tasted blood......that is a big problem...." GIVE ME A BREAK. He is a dog, not a shark. Has anyone ever heard someone say that about a dog?????? ............... as well as anyone's comments about experiences with a "John Wayne Type" trainer..... Thanks all

02-14-2011, 11:21 PM	#40 (permalink)
krystyne73 Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Edmond/Guthrie, Oklahoma Posts: 1,339	I am sorry for the stress you are going through. I have a Great Dane with the same issues. He came to us having already bit several people but we thought the family had caused the issue. Nine long years and trainers, medication never really helped. He is just older now and slower to react to anything. (Long story) Max bit my son the first day we got him, while he was petting him. Then a few months later my friend was petty him and he turned around, with no warning or growl, and latched on to her arm. She had mild puncture wounds and luckily it all worked out. After that, it was just damage control. We learned his pattern of attack and haven't had an incident since his first year outside of the home. Max, back in his younger years, has dragged me across the street almost dragging me in front of a moving car barking at people! It was those stupid shoes walking in water that did me in. Now if I step in a puddle I dry them in the grass quickly. My advice: Don't give up, just keep trying to find a behaviorist/trainer to help your dog. Be aware of your surroundings. I found with Max, if there was someone walking by that I would turn and walk us the other way. Still it is hard to prepare for people approaching. Get a better lead and some good traction shoes while training. Good luck!

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