gsd lunging at other dogs

[pac liter]

Some people think that the entire world should adopt their solution, just because it worked for their situation. Their solution conforms to their views of the world/mother-nature and makes them feel good about themselves.

They resort to name calling if somebody has different results or disagrees.

They feel so stronly self righteous, they believe they can resolve any dog aggression issues over the internet.

After all they have owned 10 family pet dogs in their life time; they must know everything about dogs.


If you have a red zone aggressive dogo argentino that has tasted blood and prefers it to anything on earth, simply redirect their aggression with praise/play/ and food. It will work 100% and they will eventually be safe around new bornes.

After all man created the problem and only pure positive training can correct it.

Now all joking aside, what if it doesn't work? Pure positive rhetoric will only carry you so far, especially when a dog is headed for an early departure. I think most sensible dog owners would prefer this approach. Problem is that it is not effective for every situation.

Everybody jumped on the guy's vet, for the chin slap technique, when it worked. What he tried pure positive redirection and it didn't work. Should he just have put his dog to sleep?

[Lauri & The Gang]

Originally Posted by pac liter

Some people think that the entire world should adopt their solution, just because it worked for their situation. Their solution conforms to their views of the world/mother-nature and makes them feel good about themselves.

No. I just happen to think that a person should start with the LEAST aversive method of training when working with a dog.

It might not work but it sure won't HURT anything (like the dog).

Originally Posted by pac liter

They resort to name calling if somebody has different results or disagrees.

No. I said their vet was an idiot because they WERE an idiot. I will retract my comment if they tell me that the vet has a degree in animal behavior AND spent at least a couple hours observing their dog IN the environment where the reactions occur.

Originally Posted by pac liter

They feel so stronly self righteous, they believe they can resolve any dog aggression issues over the internet.

No. I gave a method of WORKING with the dog - not curing it. I don't think anyone here ever claimed "THIS will cure your dog of their aggression."

Originally Posted by pac liter

After all they have owned 10 family pet dogs in their life time; they must know everything about dogs.

Actually, many of the people on this board are VERY 'advanced' dog owners. Some that train dogs for LEO, some that breed and train for Schutzund or SAR.

Originally Posted by pac liter

If you have a red zone aggressive dogo argentino that has tasted blood and prefers it to anything on earth, simply redirect their aggression with praise/play/ and food. It will work 100% and they will eventually be safe around new bornes.

So far NONE of the examples posted in this thread were THAT bad.

If anyone had a dog like the one you described and they had been to a qualified behaviorist AND followed their protocol and still had issues - I would either suggest never taking the dog off their own property and never allowing anyone to come onto their property OR I would advise euthanizing the dog.

Originally Posted by pac liter

After all man created the problem and only pure positive training can correct it.

No-one here said that ONLY positive methods would fix the problem.

But why start with a sledgehammer when a regular old hammer might just do the job as well? And it will not cause any more problems if it doesn't and you DO need the sledgehammer. What have you wasted? Just a bit of your time.

Originally Posted by pac liter

Now all joking aside, what if it doesn't work? Pure positive rhetoric will only carry you so far, especially when a dog is headed for an early departure. I think most sensible dog owners would prefer this approach. Problem is that it is not effective for every situation.

No, it's not 100% guaranteed to work for all dogs. But it doesn't hurt to try it first.

If someone tried the method I suggested, TRULY tried it and it failed - I would then suggest they get a qualified behaviorist to observe them and their dog to determine what WOULD work.

Originally Posted by pac liter

Everybody jumped on the guy's vet, for the chin slap technique, when it worked.

I will never EVER advise anyone for ANY reason to use their hands on their dog for anything punitive. Dogs should never have to FEAR the human hand - period.

Originally Posted by pac liter

What he tried pure positive redirection and it didn't work. Should he just have put his dog to sleep?

Actually - he never mentioned WHAT he tried before taking his vets advise (other than collar corrections).

[oldno43]

When I first started working with dogs 30yrs ago in the service we were quite heavy handed with correction. Over the years I have met with other trainers and have seen many methods all much less physical than the way I was taught. That said Take a look at yourself as other animals approach, do you get tense from the anticipation of "What you expect to happen" most handlers once a dog lunges tend to prepare for trouble they shorten up on the leash pulling the dog close to their sides thus putting the dog on alert. Find a trainer who is willing to work with you in controled situations, often people he may have helped in the past I don't think it's ever too late to make these corrections but it will take time and "Consistancy" on your part. Just my opinion.

[codmaster]

I feel your pain. Baron, our 2 1/2 yo male GSD, also sometimes will act up with other dogs when we are out - sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't hardly notice other dogs. Usually in his case it is big male dogs or dogs who act aggressively (little terriers usually) who will trigger his response. We are working with an animalbehaviorist and i think it is getting better. basically what she recommended was to walk toward the other dog until you can see a reaction (ears go forward, mouth closed and generally he "tightens" up, at that point before he actually reacts with a bark, growl or lunge you turn him and get his attentionand give him a treat or two or three. Then once he is back under control you turn him and start back toward the other dog and repeat it over and over as many times as you can.

Seems to wotk as he is getting better but slowly.

I would reccomend that you see if you can get to see a real dog behaviorist.

[JudynRich]

(!) I watched the little video on page one of this thread and thought it was worth a shot. Success! I used chopped up beef hot dogs and both Mia and Bella did great. We saw a new dog this morning and we left the path and went out about 20 feet on the grass and started the "surprise game"...even little "treat-resistant" Bella went for it. Mia looked up once at the other dog, but went back to looking for the treat when I said "surprise"!

[EchoGSD]

I'm working with a vet behaviorist for Echo on this issue...she said it was important to determine the type of aggression being demonstrated: is it dominance aggression or fear aggression? The handling of the two types of aggression is very different...a fearful dog may become more fearful (and more unpredictable) with corrections, but a dominant aggressive dog may not respond well to anything other than a clear show of leadership. Good Luck; I know I'll need it as I try to get Echo's behavior under control.

[Kriller]

My now 11 month old GSD used to have the same exact problem. Completely harmless but she looked and sounded very scary. Ive come to realize a lot of people are really freaked out my GSDs. Well where I live nearly every dog on the trails are off leash so it got to be very stressful taking her on them. I contacted a trainer near me that uses e-collar training and now she is a happy, mostly off-leash pup! E-collar (when used correctly!!!!) is very effective and POSITIVE training tool that I have had a lot of success with. Unfortunately a lot of the dogs where I live have absolutely no manners (no thanks to the freakin owners) and will rush her and get in her face. When I see a dog approaching I instantly have her heel but these dogs will rush her which she doesn't like, understandingly. Sometimes she'll still bark but I tell her off and she will hush up pretty quick. Nothing like when I had her on a prong collar and she would lunge and bark uncontrollably. I really don't understand why people let their dogs rush up to strange dogs like that. You don't know how they are going to react.

[Ucdcrush]

Originally Posted by EchoGSD

I'm working with a vet behaviorist for Echo on this issue...she said it was important to determine the type of aggression being demonstrated: is it dominance aggression or fear aggression? The handling of the two types of aggression is very different...a fearful dog may become more fearful (and more unpredictable) with corrections, but a dominant aggressive dog may not respond well to anything other than a clear show of leadership. Good Luck; I know I'll need it as I try to get Echo's behavior under control.

So, which does Echo have? If it's dominance aggression, how will it be treated?

I have read on another forum that a guy let the dog lunge, whilst wearing a prong collar, and when he lunged, the owner grabbed the leash firmly and gave a crank and a "leave it" command. Apparently that strong correction worked for him, and his dog no longer thinks of lunging as a pleasant option.

And anyone who has read Koehler has read about a dog who lunged at other dogs, he was allowed to lunge, but the handler would go the other way swiftly, which corrected the dog for lunging and taught it to keep an eye on the owner.

I'm curious about leash frustration, which it seems can be separate from aggression (dominance or fear or whatever). The dog wants to approach the other dog, and whines/lunges towards it. It seems that if the lunging or other wild display of the dog is NOT due to fear, a correction may be OK.

Even fearful dogs can make the association between a behavior like lunging and an unpleasant result, which should decrease lunging.

[EchoGSD]

With Echo it's definitely fear aggression. She's always been a submissive dog, but always calm and collected. I could (and did) take her everywhere. Recently in her training class there have been a few really aggressive dogs; I first noticed her anxiety building in the training gym. From there it has escalated (thanks to my inaction) into her growling and going on the offensive whenever she's in a situation where she can't leave (like on leash, or in a class, or at a social gathering with other dogs, etc.). We're working on counter-conditioning to build her confidence, lots of Jolly Routine to distract before anxiety heightens, and then eventually some desensitization if all goes well. She's still really sweet and mostly trustworthy, so we're tying to get this under control before the negative responses become ingrained behavior.

[SusiQ]

My Raven also behaves like this on lead. If I see that she notices another dog approaching and her body language begins to change, I immediately shorten the lead and give her a command to "leave it!" I will repeat this once or twice, and she usually responds positively; however, if she does not, I do give her a leash correction (I use a prong collar on walks) - VERY rarely have I had to give her more than a mild correction. It does seem to work for her.