gsd lunging at other dogs

[Chicagocanine]

Originally Posted by ckat916

Yes, its called a "correction." I know some people don't agree with Leerburgs training methods BUT when a dog is aggressive to the pointing of biting I think "physical" corrections is needed. If you aren't willing to do this then you need to walk the other way when another animal is present.

I would definitely not recommend someone to try Leerburg's type methods on their own (with no trainer) when dealing with aggression issues/leash reactivity! Those type of methods can seriously backfire and result in a dog who is MORE aggressive rather than less.
These type of methods suppressed the behavior at the time but ultimately caused my GSD to escalate her leash reactivity. She learned to associate seeing other dogs on leash with the prong corrections and became much more reactive as well as losing her confidence. When I removed all physical corrections and instead worked on making positive associations with other dogs and reward for calm behavior, I was able to greatly improve her behavior, rather than suppressing it with corrections (which doesn't change the association or solve the core problem.)

[valb]

Jake, what kind of treats are you using? I find "high value"
ones work best in this sort of situation. Ones that you don't
let her have any other time. I used little bits of chicken breast,
but whatever your girl goes for would work. Even try bouncing
a tennis ball in front of her, or handing her her favorite squeaky
toy, rope tug, whatever. Make her think you are more interesting
to be concentrating on than the other dog. (That video seems
pretty good ideas, to me!)

[Lauri & The Gang]

Years and years ago I tried using physical corrections on a dog that was on-leash reactive to other dogs. I put on a prong collar and started walking him around other dogs. Every time he went off I gave him a correction. I was NOT being touchy-feelly with him - I was giving him increasingly stronger corrections until he became so frustrated he turned and nailed me on the leg.

I learned several things that day. More force is NOT always the best answer and if a dog gets worked up enough they are going to let it out - SOMEHOW.

The key is to NOT let them get worked up.

So, you need to learn your dogs current threshold. How close can other dogs get before she reacts.

Take her out for a walk and when you see another person with their dog approaching you stop and watch YOUR girl.

You are looking for the SUBTLE signs of her getting herself worked up. Tensing the body. Ears going up and forward. Mouth closing.

These things will all happen long before she starts lunging or her hackles go up.

When the SUBTLE signs occur - THAT is her threshold. That is how close she can be to another dog before YOU have to start getting her attention back on you.

Once she is in full red zone - lunging, barking, etc. - the best you can do is get her away from the situation as quickly as possible.

Ok, now you know her threshold - let's say it's about 100 feet. Take her out for a walk and as soon as another dogs get to about 100 feet from her you start working on getting her attention on you.

I'm not talking offering her pieces of her kibble or dry dog bones and telling her to Watch You or any other basic commands.

I am talking high-pitched voice calling her name (Girly! Girly! Girly! Girly!) and laughing. I'm talking stuffing pieces of cooked chicken in her mouth and UBER praising her as she looks away from the dog to you.

I'm talking 'over the top, yes - you'll look like a crazy person, she won't be able to take her eyes off you' attention getting!!

After a few sessions you should be able to tone down your actions and still be able to get her attention on you.

You will be teaching her that when other dogs approach her YOU are going to turn into a treat-dispensing crazy person that is a TON OF FUN!

After more and more sessions you will get to the point where she will pass another dog and look at you and all you need to do is say "Gooood girl!" and keep going.

[Dawn]

I am having the exact same problem latley with Raven. She knows all her commands..on recall training she is doing fantastic but if a dog goes by when we are walking her watch out all **** breaks loose. I am working with her and using a choke collar now instead of her regular collar. She is great walking otherwise, no pulling etc...just when a dog goes by.
Now what makes it worse is I have a neighbor at the end of my block with 2 large hound mixes, saturday I had just started my walk with Raven and the woman who owns these two hounds comes down around the corner. Her house is on the corner so part of her yard was on the road I was on with Raven and the other part of her yard is on the other street she was originally on. Her one hound starts jumping and barking at Raven and of course Raven goes right back at him. I am doing every command ...leave it..etc.. at this point forget it..because she looks right at me and says I am going this way to get to my driveway and walks within 5 feet of Raven. I could barely hold her back. My neighbor could have gone through her front yard to her driveway and avoided all this but made a nice day out with Raven horrible.

[kwvining]

Originally Posted by ckat916

Yes, its called a "correction." I know some people don't agree with Leerburgs training methods BUT when a dog is aggressive to the pointing of biting I think "physical" corrections is needed. If you aren't willing to do this then you need to walk the other way when another animal is present.

We took in a 3 year old GSD. We were her 3rd home. She's a great dog, super smart and friendly except with other dogs, especially little ones! When Lucy would see another dog, even from afar, she'd get aggressive and give the evil death stare. When they'd approach closer she would try anything and everything to pull away from me.

There were a few occasions where she was very close to biting them. We're talking an inch or two. Anyways, I was very lucky her collar stayed on. For awhile if we saw other dogs I'd keep my distance or walk the opposite way. I'd even loop the leash around my dog's neck like a choke collar (groomer taught me that) just incase she got any ideas.

Anyways, I tried the "touchy feely" approach but this was way too dangerous. I considered myself to be a capable male adult (former Jarhead and in Law Enforcement), but when this 60 lb dog goes crazy she's like a 180 lb man. So after watching the Leerburg video on Dominant Aggressive Dogs, I gave Lucy a correction just like he did (use the leash and pull her back) I started low, which she totally ignored. I then gave her a 2nd correction at level 7/8 pulling her back a few feet into a down position. She yelped but at that moment I had her instant attention.

Now where I differ from Leerburg is that I gave her a Reward marker the instant she looked at me and not the other dog. I praised her and showed her I was more interesting than the other dog. I learned this from my obedience trainer "let the leash be the bad guy not you." Leerburg says most dog owners won't give a hard correction, but instead just give little annoying ones. He tells you to correct the dogs behavior not to nag the dog. I know people here think his methods are "mean" or "cruel" but he clearly states that giving a correction higher than necessary is abuse.

With that said Lucy now listens to me. I haven't given her a hard corrections since that one time. I may have to give her a low or medium correction once in awhile (near small dogs) but she quickly remembers to behave. She now enjoys the dog park and plays with my friends dog. She can still get aggressive but now listens to voice commands and will recall.

Lastly, I never used a choke or prong collar, but not I use a prong collar per the trainer. Tonight at obedience class Lucy decided to go after a little dog, but after she pronged herself (lunging after the other dog) she changed her mind. So really, I didn't have to do anything.

**Leerburg does warn that some Dominant Agressive Male Dogs can turn on there handler if given a hard corrections and recommends a choke collar or a professional trainer.

Here's a link Leerburg put in the video

http://leerburg.com/pdf/theoryofcorrections.pdf

My GSD began showing aggression towards other dogs when on our walks. He never shows it when off-leash, but when he is on leash and sees another dog on leash, especially if they are coming up from behind, he simply wants to kick the other dog's butt. He weighs 110 lbs and was becoming almost uncontrollable even with a prong collar. Our vet said to smack the dog under the chin, pull him up close on the leash, and scold him severely as soon as the early signs of coming aggression were seen. It has worked beautifully. I hate the idea of hitting the dog, but when even leash corrections don't work, there isn't much left in the arsenal. But it worked surprisingly good. We had one "session" using this technique, and now, he goes on alert when other dogs approach, but now he doesn't go into aggressive mode.

[Lauri & The Gang]

Originally Posted by kwvining

Our vet said to smack the dog under the chin, pull him up close on the leash, and scold him severely as soon as the early signs of coming aggression were seen.

I'm sorry but your vet is an idiot.

That is a good way to risk having your dog redirect to YOU.

There is NO good reason to use physical force when redirection works just as well and runs NO risk of the dog biting you.

[kwvining]

Your method of second guessing the dog's behavior seems to me like it leaves open the possibility that the dog will attack someone if they come up on you at a moment that you are unaware of their approach. Since this worked, and the dog has stopped acting this way entirely after only one severe scolding, I would say my idiotic vet gave me a method that worked. I'll take good results any day. BTW, our "vet" is a zoologist who is a professor at Texas A&M, and a very accomplished individual who just finished a long career at NASA before going into academia, hardly an idiot. Aggressive behavior is an utterly unacceptable situation, and that it is unacceptable, has to be communicated to the dog in a clear manner.

[gsdraven]

Nothing about the credentials you listed for your "vet" make him/her a credible dog behaviorist. So while this person may be an intelligent individual, they still are still an idiot for telling you to use agression to correct aggression. It's just not going to work long term and is a good way to have the dog redirect its aggression at you.

[trish07]

Originally Posted by kwvining

My GSD began showing aggression towards other dogs when on our walks. He never shows it when off-leash, but when he is on leash and sees another dog on leash, especially if they are coming up from behind, he simply wants to kick the other dog's butt. He weighs 110 lbs and was becoming almost uncontrollable even with a prong collar. Our vet said to smack the dog under the chin, pull him up close on the leash, and scold him severely as soon as the early signs of coming aggression were seen. It has worked beautifully. I hate the idea of hitting the dog, but when even leash corrections don't work, there isn't much left in the arsenal. But it worked surprisingly good. We had one "session" using this technique, and now, he goes on alert when other dogs approach, but now he doesn't go into aggressive mode.

Sorry to tell you this, but I think your vet is stupid and should continu to be a vet instead of trying to be a behaviorist.

How do you think your dog interprete your act? To him, each time he sees another dog = getting punch. Does it help him to feel comfortable around other dogs on leash? Not sure....there is nothing fun to him.

You are lucky he didn't redirect his agression on you....

I don't blame you though...you asked for help, but unfortunatly you didn't get the proper one.

Phenix was doing exactly the same. At first, we used the Cesar Millan's method, which was to touch the dog when you notice the first signs of agression (ex. hackles up). The only thing it did was to accentuate the fear and anxianty, it was worst than ever.

Than, we met our behaviorist who show us how to manage Phenix without physical corrections.

She used threats and play. You need to be patient with this. Your dog aint gonna change the next day.

Each time Phenix was barking at an other dog, we were changing direction and tried to pass near the dog again, and again, and again. As soon as he was showing relaxation or good behave, we were rewarding him with threats or by play. For some dogs, threats aren't important enough to use in those situations, but each dog loves to play You need to distract him as soon as he shows signs, it shows him that other dogs arent dangerous, that it is fun to meet new dogs. New dog = threats or = play.

If you made a situation like this uncomfortable to your dog, he will probably never change his mind toward other dogs.

[JudynRich]

Mia was having the same problem and we nearly resolved it with "look at me" and treats...now Bella has started this and pack mentality set it. Last week the two of them lunged at a little dog (also on leash). They were horrible and it must of looked awful this 5 foot lady holding back these two GSDs...luckily it was a neighbor who knows we are working on this with both dogs...Bella will be a tough case since she is not treat driven.