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Our GSD bit my DH in the face, lacerations, please help us find answers

22K views 135 replies 57 participants last post by  Cassidy's Mom 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hello everyone!

I saw what Mustlovedogs is going through and I joined this forum to post and maybe get answers to what happened to us.
To give you some background, I have had 5 GSDs in my lifetime. My DH has also had GSDs. We are no strangers to the breed and the fact that they need a calm and assertive leader.

We got K as a puppy from a very reputable breeder. At the time I had a senior 14 yo GSD who passed away shortly after we got K. We also have a female GSD who is 5yo. We were very consciencious of having K be raised by us and not by our other GSD as the breeder stated. K was very attached to both my DH and I from the start. The breeder and vet also said not to neuter K until he was over 2 yo if ever.

From 8 weeks old we worked with K on puppy classes and obedience, crating him at night and when we were not home. He is a beautiful, smart and high drive GSD. We took him to a dog park that never had any other dogs and we exercised him almost daily (running after the ball would tire him more than my DH or I could run!). He showed agression to strangers and other dogs from 8weeks old. Never showed agression with us. We would play with him but he was not allowed to "play" bite us. We were on his food, touching it and taking it away and giving it back with praise, we would also have him do commands bfore feeding him. He could get on the bed with us when invited for about 10 min every night then crate.

When he was 6 months old I had a baby boy. While the baby is never alone with the dogs, we were very careful with every interaction. K and our DS became best buds. Our son loves K and K loves him. Our DS dropped food for him. We always ate first, etc... K knew the difference between his toys and baby toys and would let go of baby toys. He never ever growled at us for taking any food or toy or bone from him since we got him so used to it since young. He loved snuggling next to us on the couch and would always turn over on his belly for us and for our son to scratch.

I thought I was living a dream, until last month. I had two wonderful GSDs, a gorgeous 16 month old baby who loved and cared for the dogs, a wonderful DH who was as crazy about dogs as I am.

Then our world fell apart. I was home with DH (our son was at a play date) and I heard this awful scream. My Dh called for help and I found him in the bathroom. His injuries are as follows: imagine you took a pair of scissors and cut your upper lip up to your nose, then get those scissors and jamm them in your nose as to puncture through your nose all the way in your sinus. then get the scissors and make a big hole on the bridge of your nose so the cartilage that separates your two nostrils has a big hole. K latched onto my Husband's face and did not let go, he kept pushing him and finally my husband was abel to use his hand to pry open K's mouth to let go of his face. He also suffered severe lacerations of his thumb trying to open K's mouth. We ran to the ER, where he had to have a plastic surgeon reconstruct his lip and nose. The pastic surgeon said my DH was within a 1/4" of losing his whole upper lip and tip of nose right off his face!

This is how my Dh described this. He gave K food in the usual place, the way he always does. He said K looked at him funny and did not goble the food up like he always does. Then DH put his hand pointing to the bowl and said K your food. Without any warning or any growls, k lunged and held on to his face.

This has been devastating to us. For about 2 weeks I kept my husband separated from K who wanted to lick him (couldn't risk any infection or damage to the stitches), separated from our son. I played with him and fed him and loved him but in the back of my mind I always had what happened to my DH, not that I feared him, I just felt I could not trust him.

After a lot of heartbreak, my DH and I decided to call the breeder and see if they would take him back (he is shy of 2 years old). The breeder did take him back and will try and train him for Schutzhund. I have cried every day since this incident. I never thought I would be "one of those people" that decide not to keep a dog. I love him like family but the truth is that with my 16 month old boy, I could not in good conscience keep K after what happened to my husband. If that had happened to our son, he would not have a face right now. I also could not keep K and give him a substandard life always separated from us and always in a crate.

At home we were always bale to intorduce him to strangers and he was fine with guests, even bringing them toys and wanting affection. He never showed agression towards anyone in our family or friends over toys or food or anything. No growls nothing. He never had possession issues even with our other dog over food or toys. I know this has to be about food in some way but I just don't understand how it went from zero agression over food to a full attack on my Dh's face when he was doing what he did for the past 18 months with K. Oh, our other dog was nowhere near the food when this happened.

I know that it is not just his fault and that I am sure that in some way, without knowing it, we probably made some mistakes with him. We were very harshly judged by people over "ever having a german shepherd around your baby." And "putting your son in such danger." I still believe that German Shepherds are a wonderful breed and my DH and I still really love K and I call the kennel every week to hear of news. I miss him dearly every day and our home and hearts are empty without him.

This was not a decision we took lightly, but with my toddler, I just could not keep K in our house after what happened. Again, there was no nip, or warning. No growl, nothing, he just went for my Dh's face and pushed him and held on to it where my DH had to pry his mouth open to let go of his face, cutting his fingers in his mouth. He almost lost part of his face.

We are looking for any advice or insight. I figure as dog lovers you would understand our pain and situation. We would love to have another GSD in addition to our female (not any time soon) and would love to hear of ways to avoid something like this from happening. I saw all the support and encouragement you gave must love dogs and also advice and I was hoping you could help us too. :help: Did we make a mistake by getting a puppy from a kennel with high drive dogs? Did we make a mistake by not neutering him? The breeder told my husband that we should have never had the two dogs together. That a family should have only one shepherd and never two unless they are to be created all the time and only let out one at a time.

to must love dogs - I hope Todd is healing well and my heart goes out to you.

Thank you again to everyone!
 
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#90 ·
That is true that if you 'correct' for growling that it can ramp up to the next step. For example, Jax does resource guarding.

1) She jumped off the ottoman to grab the bone before Sierra could get it. Even though she had one. I said "No" and took the bone.
2) Next time she jumped off theh ottoman, growled and grabbed the bone. Once again, I said "No" and took the bone.
3) The last time she jumped off the ottoman and attacked.

At each step she did not get what she wanted - the bone - so she ramped up the aggressiveness to get what she wanted. I actually taught her to do that by my actions.


However, I do not think your situation was the same. And I also think that you will never find out what actually happened becuase the breeder seems to be blaming you. It's time to walk away, knowing you did nothing wrong, and move on to a breeder who will find you an appropriate puppy, work with you on all levels even after you have your puppy and guarantee the health of that puppy. Do alot of research and ask for opinions on here from people that have experience (which you are).

I"m truly sorry this has happened to you and your family. :hugs:
 
#91 ·
First off let me tell you how sorry I am that you are going through this. I have followed this thread though I haven't poste3d before but with your last comments from your breeder ....

With that last post from Michelle

......

However, I do not think your situation was the same. And I also think that you will never find out what actually happened becuase the breeder seems to be blaming you. It's time to walk away, knowing you did nothing wrong, and move on to a breeder who will find you an appropriate puppy, work with you on all levels even after you have your puppy and guarantee the health of that puppy. Do alot of research and ask for opinions on here from people that have experience (which you are).

I"m truly sorry this has happened to you and your family. :hugs:
I echo what Michelly said above. I don't know if it's denial or what but I think this dog's breeder is trying to find an answer that doesn't put cause and effect upon the dog/her lines. She needs to accept what happened and look into possible medical reasons behind this sudden change and attack. Hopefully in doing so, you all kind find some answers that will ease the pain a bit.

No matter the relationships with the breeder, you need to move away from them and continue to do what you are doing-continue to research, looking at other breeders, asking questions here, etc. Keep it cordial and continue to maintain the relationship, but if the breeder is not looking popssible medical causes at this point, then their opinion/suggestions need to be taken with a small grain of salt (Trying to keep it polite here)

Hoping for the best from this...
 
#101 ·
" I never thought I would be "one of those people" that decide not to keep a dog. "

I didn't read your entire post, but I think you gave the dog back to the breeder? I personally think you did the right thing, rather than putting the dog down or possibly having it attack again. You kind of gave the dog a 2nd chance, lets hope he/she runs with it!
 
#108 ·
Yes we gave him back to the breeder. My quote was meant more that I really feel bad for all the GSDs that end up in shelters because they were more dog than the owner wanted or because they never researched the breed. I know no one would blame us for giving him up after what happened. I just take getting a puppy very seriously and to me it was a life commitment to train him and keep him. But of course I never expected this to happen! I really hope the breeder works with him but also gets him checked out by a vet.
 
#104 ·
Thordog,

Most of our past GSD's have been gotten as puppies and from their very first day, we have always worked with them to not be possevive or defensive of their food or toys or bones. we have usually had a small child with dogs and could not afford to have a dog snapping at our kids or their friends. we have some pictures of our 3 yo son straddling her food dish and feeding our big tough dog one kibble at a time!

We would practice taking the food or toy etc. away and then either giving them another one or simply retuning it to them so they got very used to a person taking something and them getting something either equal or better. Any disagreeable behavior, ie. snapping, growling or pouncing on the item was met with a firm (appropriate to their age) correction and Then giving it back to them after a short interval. We have never had a problem with this approach.

If I acquired an older dog or puppy I would try the same approach as i think it would work just as well, esp. after a little trust is built up - the trade appoach seems to work with most older dogs.
 
#105 ·
Don't feel guilty about not keeping K. You did the right thing for the safety of your family. Wow. K's behavior does not sound normal. I adopted a 3 year old female GSD and I experienced a similar episode. After she settled into our home her true colors came out. She bit my DH, although not as bad as K bit your DH. So sorry to hear about his face.

She was a VERY unpredictable dog. One minute she was fine, the next minute she would lunge at someone's back. It stressed me out to the max. So I returned her to the Rescue Group that I adopted her from. They did an evaluation and put her down. I cried for weeks. I felt like I let her down. But I know if she would've bit one of my neighbor's kids, I would never forgiven myself.

GSD are such fine-tuned animals. So smart, loyal and lovable but sometimes you wonder what they are really thinking/feeling.

Again, don't be too hard on yourself for returning K.
 
#107 ·
WOW! What a HORRIBLE and shocking experience! Please don't feel bad about returning the dog. If it were me with a baby in the house I would probably do the same thing. Much as I'm "pro-keeping" a dog, under these circumstances I think I only could have kept him if there were only adults living in the house. You didn't just dump him somewhere or take him to the shelter, you took him back to where he came from where he will be cared for.

I would *definitely* be looking for something medical or "wrong in the head" kind of problem. Whoever mentioned that young pups should not be displaying aggressiveness is right on ... there was something going on way back then is my thought. I think the holding on thing is what shocks me most. That's a lot different from a dog that "hits" and backs off immediately. I think a dog that bites and holds is more dangerous but I could be very wrong as I don't have experience enough to know for sure.

I hope your hubby heals up quickly and with no bad scarring.
 
#109 ·
Jax08 and codmaster - thanks for the tips!
kutzro357 and Riley's Mom and London's Mom - thank you for understanding my frame of mind, I do feel very guilty even when my head said it was the right thing to do. The attack was very vicious and unwarranted, too much so to not believe it was a seizure or something to that effect. We wrote the breeder again but have not gotten a response, I am afraid we are not the ones making a decision on getting him checked out by a vet, it is not up to us anymore :( I will always miss him for the 99.999% of the time he was a snuggle bug with us and best friend to our son.
We practiced some NILIF. He was allowed on bed and furniture when invited to do so. My husband and I shared training him and he showed no preference between us. He was not a working dog, he had obedience classes and we worked with him at home. He even would do commands by our son who could barely say, sit, down and stay (with hand signals!).

Again, I would be lost without all of your support, thank you!
 
#110 ·
You KNOW you made the right decision regardless of what the breeder does now. I hope the breeder does right by him but you must put that out of your mind now as it is out of your control.

Whenever you question yourself ask yourself what if it had been the baby? The outcome for the child would have been unthinkable. :))
 
#111 · (Edited)
Tufts(Cummings School)Journal has an article on "dogs gone wild" by Dr. Nicholas Dodman
it talks about electrical storms in the brain, very interesting...
Dogs Gone Wild
I truely believe K experienced a seizure.
 
#114 ·
Wow Jane - that was a great article! It sure would explain the sudden outburst of such violence and then back to our normal cuddle bug! I really hope they test him, I don't want this to happen to someone else or that he ends up PTS :(
 
#115 · (Edited)
It could easily happen again if nobody looks further into this. If this is a seizure-like condition and phenobarbitol controls it, it should definitely be looked into before it's too late. Our dog was on phenobarbitol for grand mal seizures at age 9 for the rest of her life. The seizures were not aggression-related, but due to a brain tumor (which was removed, but she still had small tremors that were controlled by the pheno). Other than making her gain weight and slowing her down a bit, it didn't seem to cause any problems for her. I sure hope that they don't just let this go because if it happens again, K will surely be put down.

I'm so sorry this happened to you. I would be heartbroken too. And I hope your husband will make a full recovery from this.
 
#116 ·
I know I am really late on this, but wanted to let you know how sorry I am that your husband and your family are having to go through this. I hope he is feeling better and healing well. I am the other person, mentioned earlier, who was bitten by my own dog, so I am very interested in your situation. Compared to your husband's injuries, mine were hardly even worth talking about, though.

I have a question and you may have answered it earlier and I missed it. What was your other dog doing while your husband was being attacked? Being a GSD, I am surprised he wasn't into it in one way or another.

K is really pretty lucky, as I am also surprised he wasn't seized by animal control and then his welfare would have been out of your hands. I think that is what would have happened here, but perhaps it is a state law that varies. Good luck.
 
#118 ·
Thank you again for your support. My husband is healing well, he is still in a lot of pian from the hole in his sinus and it burns. his lips are healing well and the new mustache covers it (he hates it!). He still can't eat solids but we are on the mend. Emotionally is has been tough. We can't get our minds off of K and how he is doing and that we miss him. We have tried contacting the breeder again but he hasn't responded, I know someday we have to let go... :(

Our other dog, a female, was in another room in the house. The attack was actually quite quiet because he never growled or barked (like all the noise in a dog browl) I nvever even heard a thing until my hub got his face out of his mouth and yelled to me to help. No warning just a full on attack with no letting go of his face as he pushed hub into the side of the oven. So I think our other female, like me, had no idea of what happened until my hub yelled. To be honest with you, we lied in the hospital and siad he got in the middle of a dog fight between our dogs. We were emotionally shattered and did not want someone making a decision for us to PTS. Not the right thing to do, I admit.

I posted on your thread, that my friend had a Chow that started having seizures and not recognizing them and snapping at them, it was a while before they figured out what happened and had to unfortunately PTS since he would try to attack them because he did not know who they were.

I can only assume why K did it. I will never really know since the vet checkup is out of my hands now. He was always so tolerant of everything, clipping nails, checking teeth, even with our toddler he was nothing but sweet. Never ANY agression toward any of us. Again, just heartbreaking but trying to find answers can be madening also.

Thank you again to everyone who sent their good thougths our way and gave us your best guess.
 
#121 ·
I just wanted to give an update. My husband has healed from his injuries and has a noticeable scar on his upper lip but everything healed great with no infections. Of course the emotional scars are a different story.

We have tried contacting the breeder for news of "our" dog but he won't respond. But the shocking development is that we contacted someone who works at the breeder and he said that 4 other dogs were returned to them for what he called a mental condition. And he said that there was nothing we could have done differently that we had no control over what happened. Well while that makes me feel better and less guilty, it also makes me mad that the breeder sold us a dog when he knew there was an issue with this mental condition (he knew very well we had a small child and we asked for a family companion/obedience dog that would live at home with us). Now I know that the breeder can't be responsible for the temperament of each puppy and bad things happen, but it seems like it was an ongoing problem and one poor dog had been there for a while.

Anyway, lesson learned and we would love to get another puppy and we are doing research on kennels that attempt to match the pups as best they can.

Thanks again for all your support!
 
#122 ·
I'm so glad that your husband is doing better, thanks for the update. What a sad situation for everyone - you and your family, and the dogs too.
 
#123 ·
I've been hoping for an update as well. Thank you!
Good to hear your husband is healing and you are looking forward to adding another GSD to your family...too bad about the breeder, I wouldn't let that go quietly if I were in your spot. Though I'm not sure how I would proceed to get word out that the temperament from his stock is not sound, and his breeding practices are lacking as far as responsibility to what he has produced.
I hope your hubby continues to heal and all of your scars from this fade...
 
#124 ·
onyx girl - I don't really know how to react sometimes I think I have a moral obligation to the families that will purchase a dog from this breeder, sometimes I think it is not my place since they have produced good dogs. I also feel like I wouldn't want our dog to be punished for our actions since he is now with the breeder. I go back and forth. I am no doubt angry about this whole thing. Especially since I have found out that the dam did not have any other litters except this one and she was older which makes it weird. Plus the breeder always blamed us on our dog's behavior and not the breeding so I really don't think he cares. He offered us another puppty when our female passes but there is no way I would have another dog from this breeder. This could have happened to anyone, but the support we got from him was terrible and obviously he made a financial decision when selling dogs that had a potential to snap and he knew it.

cassidy - thank you!
 
#127 ·
We had a very similar thing happen to my girlfriend with a rescue dog. Very traumatic!! Unfortunately, that dog had to be put down. The rescue organization agreed as did our vet. All in all a very sad situation. My GF had over 30 stitches in her face and still has terrifying nightmares of the the scene being repeated. I hope your whole family recovers well. So sorry... those things are really hard to deal with.
 
#128 ·
Relayer - was it a GSD? I am so sorry and hope she is doing well.

Rusty - this breeder is highly regarded in the working dog/show dog circles I don't want to say much else since I would be making it too easy to guess and that is not the purpose of this post nor is it allowed on the board. This was not a backyard breeder or a small breeder. We thought we were being responsible because we did not want to adopt a GSD (I know there are wonderful GSDs waiting to be adopted, no doubt, but we would not know of its history or triggers and with a baby we didn't think it was responsible) so we bought a GSD puppy from a highly regarded kennel thinking we were doing everything right. We even asked for a lower drive dog and that we could wait for a match.

Josie - the kennel worker said they do not get put down. We have been trying to find out the status of our dog but we don't get a call or email back :(
 
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