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My dog bit me, need opinions.

24K views 130 replies 52 participants last post by  valreegrl 
#1 ·
For the past year or so, Heidi has showed that she does not like for us to put our faces close to her, such as hugging her. Unfortunately my daughter and I have a tendency to be hands on with the dogs, burying our faces in their fur, that sort of thing. The following is what occurred last night:

Heidi was laying on the couch. I was sitting on the floor below her. I was stroking her shoulder and head, just generally giving her affection. She suddenly lunged and bit my face in several places. It did draw blood and looks ugly, although it isn't serious. I ran to the bathroom to see how bad it was and my husband yelled at Heidi. Afterward Heidi did not seem particularly repentant, although she was back to her gentle self.

Here is my take on this: I was doing something that I know from previous experience makes Heidi uncomfortable, which isn't a good reason for her to bite, but was still foolish and dangerous on my part. I was sitting below her in a position that can hardly be called an "alpha position." I think this was an expression of dominance from Heidi and a reminder that I need to, once again, practice leadership skills with her.

I would like your more experienced views on this. What is your take on what was going through Heidi's mind? Am I taking this too lightly? What should have been my reaction at the time this occurred?
 
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#27 ·
Originally Posted By: 3K9Mom
Originally Posted By: gsdsr#1I am always amazed at the number of people that put up with biting dogs. 101 excuses.
I don't see anyone making excuses.

I see a bunch of experienced dog owners (experienced GSD owners in fact) suggesting that we rule out veterinary causes before we assume there is a behavioral cause.

Often, inexperienced or ignorant owners overreact to behaviors that have relatively simple (and manageable) organic explanations. They become angry (anger only confuses dogs); they call in trainers (a good trainer will tell you to take the dog to a vet first anyhow); they take more drastic steps.... but the answer was right there under their noses the whole time.

In fact, often, the dog did give warning, but the owner didn't see or understand the stress signals the dog gave (dilated pupils, lip-licking, yawning, etc). So they think it's an attack "out of the blue," but it wasn't. I don't know if that's the case here, because the OP was sitting under her dog and wouldn't have seen them. But it's hard to know whether Heidi gave warning signs that were ignored.

I too have never had a sick or injured dog bite me (but the OP admits that she has continued to bother the dog despite the fact that she knew it bothered her girl, whereas I left my injured/sick dog in peace until I got the problem resolved).

I HAVE seen my sweet completely placid dog's personality change as her thyroid levels dropped, and she grew cranky with her packmates. Once we put her on thyroid meds, she was back to being her happy bouncing self. I have seen the personalities of dogs who are very ill change right before my eyes.

As I said to the OP, we *start* with a thorough vet exam and a Complete Blood Count. If this dog is sick, injured or both, forcing her into a training regime will do nothing but make her feel worse.

Is that what you would intend us to do?

If we rule out organic causes for this behavior, then we know that we need to address this behaviorally. Even if there are certain organic causes, we may be able to address them via training, management, or both. But imo, the humane thing to do is start with a vet exam. No excuses, no rationalizations. Just starting at the most logical place.
Well put
 
#28 ·
I'd say that the tone of the post in question is definitely NOT just using dog vernacular. at least, I would have taken it the same way that she did.

the wording "why don't you muzzle her.." would have worked just as well. but chosing to say "muzzle that bitch" is a much more confrontational tone
 
#29 ·
Originally Posted By: DainerraI'd say that the tone of the post in question is definitely NOT just using dog vernacular. at least, I would have taken it the same way that she did.

the wording "why don't you muzzle her.." would have worked just as well. but chosing to say "muzzle that bitch" is a much more confrontational tone
And that it was said on the heels of the prior post by the same person that was pretty confrontational as well.

But anyways...To the OP...please let us know how you make out!!!
 
#30 ·
How does Heidi comminicate with other dogs?
If they are doing something she doesn't like, does she snap, growl etc or do they all just 'respect her space'?

Quote: Heidi always goes to the store with me and she enjoys and expects it.
If you haven't already, I'd treat train her to a basket muzzle & start using that on outings where other people might accidentally touch her & trigger a reaction - if you don't think of this as a punishment, & you train it correctly, she'll think the muzzle is the greatest prize on earth

Similarly, print out these articles & really think about how they (might) apply to what's going on with your dogs; nervous or unconfident dogs usually respond very positively to NILIF.

http://k9deb.com/NILIF.html
http://k9deb.com/social.html

Has Heidi had any pain assesments done?
 
#31 ·
I take in problem dogs. Dogs that nobody wants for all kinds of reasons. Since I have so many, the times I spend with each dog daily, are filled with me loving on them and I kiss every dog on the lips.

I don't care what the reason is. If any of my dogs bit me in the face, when I am loving on them, that would be it. I would take them to the Vet to be PTS.
It doesn't matter what pain or any other excuse one wants to come up with. That behavior cannot be tolerated.

There are so many, many loving dogs out there, who wish they had someone to love and kiss on them, that no excuse will justify your own dog attacking your face.
 
#32 ·
Quote: That behavior cannot be tolerated.
this is how some dogs feel about all the touchy/feely stuff humans do - if your dog gives clear signals that he does not like what you are doing (maybe pain related, may just be his temperament) & you insist on doing it, pushing, pushing at the dog, what is the dog supposed to do, jump the fence & run away from home
 
#33 ·
I don't agree with that at all. My mom and dad's small dog bit my dad on the nose, cause my dad was in the dog's face and doing things he shouldn't. She bit, but other than that was a great dog and never did it again.

Dogs can't communicate the way we do and biting is part of their communication...it's in their play, anger, fear, pain, happiness, etc. It's part of their language. Although there is a difference between an aggressive dog that bites and a dog that is in pain and bites.

Oftentimes humans who are in pain will lash out on people if they are touched...my DH has seen this many times as a medic. If it hurts and someone touches it, people tend to scream or physically lash out. Why do we expect so much different or more from an animal?
 
#34 ·
Any dog owner should know if their dog has a sensitive area on their body due to pain. If one touches their dog and they yelp, whine, etc., of course the source of the pain should be addressed.

Any dog who is so weak, that they attack their owner's face, and draw blood, for giving love, should be given a dirt nap.
I deal with extreme manbiters. There are some of these, that after bonding with the family are the most loving and appreciative dogs there are.

What good is some cur who doesn't want love or to be touched?
There is no way, I would bend to the will of some weak minded cur who communicates by biting the owner in the face.
To each his own.
 
#35 ·
Tuco. If this were bulldog I'd agree, heck, if it were my GSD's I'd agree, but hardly any other breeds are held up the the standard our dogs (bulldogs) are...

The situation with Heidi is strange to say the least... If she's willing to bite her owner/leader in the face for nothing, what happens if you have a kid over, or when you're out a toddler runs up and goes to pet her before you can react? Start practicing some serious NILIF, not letting her on any furniture, making sure she sees you as leader and protector. I highly suggest crating her if you have other people over... If you plan on working with this dog you need to really crack the whip. No more free anything. Make sure she is 100% healthy, maybe with her age something to take the edge off of any pain could help.

Bridget said she was touching her so lightly that it couldn't have hurt.

I suppose I'm used to MY dogs not tearing at my face. MY GSD's may flinch and whip their faces near my hand if I'm cleaning wounds, but never bite. My old bulldog (others in the past as well) might whine a little, but held still and let me do what I have to with fight wounds or even from them stepping on glass, getting caught in thorn bushes, whatever, even when I know what
I'm doing is not comfortable to them, they would never bite me for it. They know where I stand. Even my NERVEY 8 moth old GSD pup knows better than to ever lay a tooth on me, and he's the type who would crap himself if a kid ran at him.

I grew up, as many know, with GSDs and BYBs, even then the dogs knew who the F was in charge and was not to be harmed. At about 5 or so I remember climbing into the dog house with a dam and her pups. She left the house. At five the dogs knew not to touch me... Granted, my parents were idiots for letting me play with pups nearly alone with the dam around.

The only time one of my dogs has ever bitten me for real (and the only time I would excuse it) was the 15 year old male shepherd biting my arm as I went to unlatch the gate from the outside. I let him go with it and greeted him directly afterward because:
I was wearing a hoodie.
I had just gotten out of a strange car.
I smelled like strangers and other dogs.
I didn't speak and I walked to the gate.

He broke skin and I still have scars from it, but that was different. As soon as he realized what he did he lowered his head and tail and gently wagged it, and slowly came to me with puppy eyes.

I don't know your dog's story... Have you owned her for the majority of her life? Rescue? I don't have time to go look up every one of your posts... How old is your daughter? If she's willing to bite you, what would she do to her?

As I said, I'm a bit wrong-footed feeling here, as even the most nervy dog I've met, mine, wouldn't dare touch me, and if he did he wouldn't do it again.



Hun, I wish you the best of luck, it's going to be tough, but worth it if you work very hard with her!
 
#37 ·
Originally Posted By: APBTLoveTuco. If this were bulldog I'd agree, heck, if it were my GSD's I'd agree, but hardly any other breeds are held up the the standard our dogs (bulldogs) are..
Less than a third of my dogs are bulldogs. I don't ask a lot from any of the dogs I feed. I DO ask them to be decent dogs.
Enjoying attention and love, and returning love are two traits I expect from any dog I feed.

Believe me, there are some very loving, hearty and impressive mixes and breeds out there. Bulldogs and GSD's don't have a lock on being the best all around dog or pet.
 
#38 ·
Originally Posted By: Jax08



Why would you agree if this were a bulldog rather than another breed?
Because with the horrible reputation these dogs have, and how they are bred to not have any HA, it is completely not tolerated in the breed... I won't take this off topic, but if you want to know more don't hesitate to PM me... Tuco may be willing to talk to you as well.
 
#39 ·
Tuco, you take in problem dogs, dogs that have been raised by other people and are getting a second chance, possibly a last chance with you.

If you raised a dog up from a puppy, and now it is ten years old, and suddenly it bit you in the face, you would not look for a medical reason before going for the needle?

I am sorry. I do not believe that a bite equals a death sentence. Everything has to be taken into consideration in my opinion. I do believe that putting a dog down due to aggression is an option, just that it is never to be generalized like that.
 
#41 ·
Originally Posted By: APBTLove
Originally Posted By: Jax08

Why would you agree if this were a bulldog rather than another breed?
Because with the horrible reputation these dogs have, and how they are bred to not have any HA, it is completely not tolerated in the breed... I won't take this off topic, but if you want to know more don't hesitate to PM me... Tuco may be willing to talk to you as well.
I don't need more information. I was asking why you chose "bulldogs" to be PTS if they bite and your response seems to be because of their reputation and what they are bred for. If that were the case then dobie's, rottie's, GSD's would all be at the top of the hit list as well as no breed should be bred to be HA. That would be a zero tolerance policy regardless of breed.

And this thread is already way off topic. The topic was the OP asking for opinions on her dog. The consensus was to take her in for medical testing, which should be the first step regardless of the breed, and make sure there was nothing physical going on with her. I believe this "aggression", as it's been deemed, started recently. This would imply to me that it is not true HA.

That leads to the next question...Shouldn't these steps be taken with all dogs before labeling them as HA and euthanizing them?
 
#42 ·
Originally Posted By: selzerTuco, you take in problem dogs, dogs that have been raised by other people and are getting a second chance, possibly a last chance with you.

If you raised a dog up from a puppy, and now it is ten years old, and suddenly it bit you in the face, you would not look for a medical reason before going for the needle?

I am sorry. I do not believe that a bite equals a death sentence. Everything has to be taken into consideration in my opinion. I do believe that putting a dog down due to aggression is an option, just that it is never to be generalized like that.
Of course, the scenario you speak of would be different.
If the 10yr old had always been a good dog, then of course I would feel age had affected his or her mind, and make exceptions.
 
#43 ·
Quote:I don't care what the reason is. If any of my dogs bit me in the face, when I am loving on them, that would be it. I would take them to the Vet to be PTS. It doesn't matter what pain or any other excuse one wants to come up with. That behavior cannot be tolerated.
I would honestly hate to be one of the dogs in your care.

Whenever you have a really odd behavior like sudden aggression, medical is the first thing that should be looked at, not putting the dog to sleep.

Human beings who are in pain can communicate - don't touch me, it hurts, I am in so much pain. But even human beings, when in enough pain, are often unable to communicate that and lash out at those trying to help them, whether physically or verbally.

Dogs don't have the option of telling you, "that hurts" or "I am really uncomfortable with this, please stop", and if you don't read their subtle body language signals, such as the ones described further up in the thread, any dog that is in pain and discomfort can and will bite.

I read on one of the dog boards - I believe it was this one - a story about a Cocker Spaniel who had always been a great family pet, but one day, "out of the blue", bit the child in the family in the face. The parents were horrified. Their dog had never done this before. They took the dog to be put to sleep immediately. When the vet put the dog to sleep, he happened to notice that there was a crayon lodged in the dog's ear - the child, unsupervised with the dog, had done it. And a perfectly good dog, who had reacted out of pain and fear, had been put to sleep for no reason at all.

Quote:Any dog who is so weak, that they attack their owner's face, and draw blood, for giving love, should be given a dirt nap.
I deal with extreme manbiters. There are some of these, that after bonding with the family are the most loving and appreciative dogs there are.
Exactly how do you deal with these dogs if you response to biting or attempted biting is to have the dog put to sleep?
 
#44 ·
Quote:Of course, the scenario you speak of would be different.
If the 10yr old had always been a good dog, then of course I would feel age had affected his or her mind, and make exceptions.
Maybe you should have read the thread before giving the opinion the dog should be PTS for biting her owner. The dog in question is going on nine years old and has shown aggression, along with health issues, for the last year.
 
#45 ·
Originally Posted By: Jax08
Originally Posted By: APBTLove
Originally Posted By: Jax08

Why would you agree if this were a bulldog rather than another breed?
Because with the horrible reputation these dogs have, and how they are bred to not have any HA, it is completely not tolerated in the breed... I won't take this off topic, but if you want to know more don't hesitate to PM me... Tuco may be willing to talk to you as well.

I don't need more information. I was asking why you chose "bulldogs" to be PTS if they bite and your response seems to be because of their reputation and what they are bred for. If that were the case then dobie's, rottie's, GSD's would all be at the top of the hit list as well as no breed should be bred to be HA. That would be a zero tolerance policy regardless of breed.

And this thread is already way off topic. The topic was the OP asking for opinions on her dog. The consensus was to take her in for medical testing, which should be the first step regardless of the breed, and make sure there was nothing physical going on with her. I believe this "aggression", as it's been deemed, started recently. This would imply to me that it is not true HA.

That leads to the next question...Shouldn't these steps be taken with all dogs before labeling them as HA and euthanizing them?
Jax, there is a Huge difference between a dog being HA, and a dog biting it's owner in the face.
I have several very HA dogs. If they see a stranger they go into attack mode immediately. The dogs I speak of, are cuddly, teddy bears with me and my family.

I understand this, and accept the responsibility of owning such animals.
What I will never understand or accept, is a dog biting it's owner.
 
#46 ·
I know there is a huge difference between the HA and a dog biting his owner. That supports my philosophy in that all medical problems should be ruled out be before labeling the dog as aggressive and euthanizing them.

Especially in this situation where the dog has just recently started showing aggressive signs. Thyroid, brain tumor, anything could be causing this.
 
#47 ·
OMG, Chris, that is such a heartbreaking story about the Cocker Spaniel...it brings tears to my eyes. It also speaks volumes about our dogs and our need to understand them.

As humans we have a responsiblity to try to understand our dogs. We need to know and respect their limits. They are not perfect but neither am I. I am, however, responsible for them and that responsibilty doesn't stop the moment they 'misbehave'. I'm not saying its ok for a dog to bite but these are our pets and we owe it to them to respect their boundries and work with them as such.

When I was blessed to have three pups I took on that responsiblity and accepted that responsibilty for the life's of these dogs.

There are a world of options avail to Bridget and Heidi which don't include putting a dog down that she clearly loves. I don't even know why such comments need to be made here or how that can be concieved as 'helpful'. This world would be a much better place if people stepped up to the plate (as she has) and gets help to change this behaviour rather than 1. killing the dog 2. dumping at the shelter.

How many times have we sceen basically this same post but with the OP instead stating they now want to rehome their dog because of it? Many, many times. Then we all go off on how this is your dog and how you should rule out medical, get training, blah, blah, blah....I just think its refreshing to see someone actually stepping up to the plate and willing to work on changing this behavior. For that I think Bridget should be applauded, not told to PTS her cherished pet.
 
#48 ·
Originally Posted By: Historian
Quote:Of course, the scenario you speak of would be different.
If the 10yr old had always been a good dog, then of course I would feel age had affected his or her mind, and make exceptions.
Maybe you should have read the thread before giving the opinion the dog should be PTS for biting her owner. The dog in question is going on nine years old and has shown aggression, along with health issues, for the last year.
Perhaps You should have read this thread closer.
The OP's situation is different than the scenario presented to me.
The OP's dog is going on nine. That's a defending way of stating, the dog is eight.
Me raising a pup for 10yrs, and it always been a good dog, then suddenly one day biting my face, is much different than the OP's.

The OP's dog has been acting flakey for a year. More important than that, the OP states, and I quote,
Heidi does indeed have a nervous temperament, <u>always has</u>. So I have to take it into consideration too, although not using it as an excuse.

Can you not read between the lines?
 
#49 ·
Quote:The OP's dog is going on nine. That's a defending way of stating, the dog is eight.
Actually, the OP's dog is past 8.5 years in age, which is a lot closer to nine than it is to eight. Of course, I don't see a vast difference between the dog being eight and the dog being nine.

Quote:Me raising a pup for 10yrs, and it always been a good dog, then suddenly one day biting my face, is much different than the OP's.
Really? How is it "much different"? The OP has been raising this dog for nearly eight years and she's always been a good dog, except that she has a nervous temperament. Just because a dog has a nervous temperament or a dog is weak nerved doesn't mean that it's not a good dog or that the dog is somehow dangerous.

You will also note that, even thought the dog has "always had a nervous temperament", this has been the first time she has bitten her owner. And yes, the dog has been acting differently for a year - she's been going through various illnesses for a year: ear infections, arthritis, etc. But this is the first time she has bitten the OP.

So, no, it's not "much different". It's quite similar to having had a good dog for 10 years and suddenly getting bitten.
 
#51 ·
OMG tuco!! How could I have missed it!!! You are so right!!!

This dog has a nervous temperament and always has, but the OP isn't using that as an excuse!!! Boy, do I feel stupid!!!

There it was, right in front of me!!!

ummm . . . I had mentioned the nervous temperament to comment that the dog's actions were not very likely to be dominance motivated: shy nervous dogs rarely bite their owners out of a sudden urge to become the alpha in the house hold, but I'm sure with your dog rehabiliation experience, you know that.

And Oh My Gosh!!! THe OP ADMITS to not making excuses for her dog and is willing to take responsibility for her actions!

So what exactly is the problem here??

Though I don't think that we need to get too upset here, I really doubt that the OP will be euthanizing her dog over this incident, but is more likely going to try and help the dog.
 
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