Taking Ruby (child aggressive) to behaviorist

[goatdude]

Finally got in touch with a behaviorist and set up a time for her to see Ruby, my child aggressive 9mo female GSD. Hopefully we can determine what the root causes are for her behavior problems and develop some treatment program that will work. I have tried things on my own such as what was suggested by the breeder, using a prong collar, taking the pup out to parks etc where small children play and through verbal no and collar corrections try to teach her that aggressiveness towards children is not acceptable. This has not worked and from some research, may have only further reinforced her bad behavior if the dog now associates pain=children. OK, then on to counterconditioning which may be the right approach but since this seems like I am now just guessing I feel it's best to consult a professional, since the type of aggression could result in some pretty serious consequences.

My observations of her behavior as it relates to who she seems to be most submissive to and then working to who she demonstrates the most aggression to is, in order of most submissive to to least, adult males, adult females, teenage males, teenage females then lowest on the list are prepubescent children.

Around our house within a city block each way is what it seems like the dog perceives it's own territory and the aggression displays are most pronounced in this area. If I take her anywhere from home she will still act aggressive in the order listed previously but not as pronounced. A few weeks ago we took Ruby to Starved Rock SP and went on the hiking trails. The park was very crowded that weekend. Well, we got a few hundred yards down the trail when we came to a narrow set of steps. Coming down the steps at us and directly towards Ruby was a middle-age woman. Ruby got into what looked like a defensive posture lunged, bared teeth, raised her hackles and basically looked like she was in attack mode. Got the dog quickly off the trail and sat her down in a quiet area of the park in order to settle her, which took quite a while.

Now, starved Rock SP is not her home turf and this aggressive display was as strong as any I had seen her do anytime. What triggered that? Territorial, fear, prey?

As for her kid-aggressivness, next door to us adjacent to our back yard the neighbors have a trampoline set up. A lot of the neighborhood kids come over to play and when Ruby was much younger, 3-4 months old, she took a lot of interest in their activities and looked like she was getting along with them well. As time went on though it seemed that the tramp play just started to irritate the heck out of her and then started aggressiveness. Now the parents don't allow their kids to play on the tramp anymore.

There's a few small dogs in the neighborhood she does not like either and she's not too fond on the timid female Black Lab across the street (but she's fine with the Lab owner's kids).

When this dog is around adults you would never suspect that she would be aggressive and same goes for when she's around most larger more dominant dogs. She seems to prey on what she perceives as unfamiliar, small and weak, in my opinion and is fairly territorial.

[Zisso]

I feel for you! Far from an expert here but my guess is that she is showing fear aggression. Glad to hear you are getting help from a behavoirist! Let us know how it goes, please?

[BowWowMeow]

In a dog that young I am guessing you are almost certainly dealing with fear.

I agree that a behaviorist who uses positive reinforcement and counter conditioning is absolutely the way to go. If she was my dog (and I've had two like that) I would start teaching a really good focus command at home, work on studying her behavior so that I can identify her triggers (what sets her off and how do you know she's about to go off--these can be very subtle but if you learn to look you will see them) and work on establishing yourself as a fair, calm and confident leader. She should know to look to you to make all decisions and allow you to decide what/who is a threat and what/who isn't.

Because Rafi had some issues with other dogs when I adopted him I taught him to go behind me when he felt threatened or unsure of a situation. That worked like a charm. He is now rock solid with other dogs, even if they charge or try to intimidate him. And if he feels threatened or unsure he will still use my body to protect himself.

Clicker training will probably be very useful for you and your dog to learn. There is a great book called, "Click to Calm." It was a huge help to me with my dog Kai.

Have you found a behaviorist yet?

[goatdude]

Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowHave you found a behaviorist yet?

Yes I did and we're going to see her this Thursday. It is very possible as you posted that I am dealing with a fear response but once she's evaluated we'll see for sure what's behind all this.

[BlackPuppy]

I finished reading the book "scaredy dog" by Ali Brown. There's a lot of good information on causes of fear aggression and how to start counter conditioning.

I didn't know about the hormones that cause the dog to have a heightened sensitivity for the next several days.

She talks about how she was able to make progress with her own dog.

[Riley's Mom]

Before you spend all that money on a behaviorist, have you had Ruby's thyroid checked? Aggression towards small children is a classic symtom.

[goatdude]

Update. Ruby had her trip to the behaviorist. They spent over two hours interviewing me and obeserving Ruby even taking Ruby on a walk in the neighborhood next to their office.

What was recommended was a program of DCC using low level stimilus and treats/toys and getting her used to wearing a head halter. I am also to get a complete write up by email with the entire program outlined including times to get back to them with progress reports. Thyroid was never mentioned but may be in their written review so I'll hold off on that for now.

During the neighborhood walk we could not get Ruby to "go off" on any kids but she did lock them on with her radar though. Once back at the office they brought out a two foot tall doll to test Ruby's kid response. She did get agitated and tried nipping it taking lunges at it, backing off, barking, lunging at it again with snapping jaws.

They felt that with DCC Ruby could act a lot better around kids but will never be 100% safe with them and to never leave her alone with small children ever. She is not a lost cause, they've seen much worse come through, and is worth working with and saving. It will be work though and will take time, maybe up to two years to have a dog that will, with supervision, be safe.

[debbiebrown]

Congrats! i commend you for going to get professional help for your dog, and your willing to put the time and effort into it. there will be some frustrating times as i am sure they touched base on, but with the trainers support your time and commitment you should have a dog that is 10 times better than where you started. i don't think any big dogs should be left alone with children, mainly herding dogs and more aggressive working breeds. there are exceptions to every rule but kids are at face level and a strong nip could cause some major damage, even if it wasn't an aggressive bite.

Best of luck in your training, i think you will be very successful!

debbie

[zyppi]

Wondering...

Children being children - do you think they ever teased her?

I agree with you that using the prong and corrections near children probably didn't help.

I think I'd try finding her comfort distance... treat, then gradually move her - different occasions - a bit closer with treats until she understands that it is not the children that cause her anxiety.

Wouldn't push it though.

[goatdude]

Never seen any of the kids tease her and she was never left alone with kids, even as a young pup.