i think i may have to get rid of our GSH

[Riley's Mom]

Originally Posted By: cleodosiawe bought our GSD in november when she was 5wks old, and we got our Lab the following April when she was only 7 weeks old.

Part of the problem is that you're getting dogs that are to young to be away from Mom and siblings. Five weeks is RIDICULOUSLY young and just begging for behavior problems. During the last few weeks pups learn from Mom and from siblings about behavior and both your dogs got shorted in that department.

I must have missed something. You've had the dog for seven years and have small children so the kids are not new on the scene and now after all this time you're looking to get rid of the dog? I'm lost. It sounds like efforts at training were there, but just not enough nor enough consistency. At 7, your dog should be slowing down due to normal aging. What am I missing?

I really think that getting rid of the dog is not fair to the dog. This dog has lived w/you for 7 years and from a way to young age. These issues should have been addressed much earlier in her life and been continuous for the length of her life.

However, if you're not willing and able to provide what the dog needs on a consistent loving basis then I would say to rehome her to someone who really wants her and has the time, energy and desire to give her what she needs. It sounds like you have way to much going on at your house to deal properly with her and a little bit like you'd like to not have to deal with her anymore.

[GSDElsa]

OK. I’m by no means a dog or German Shepherd (this is our first GSD) expert, but I think I might be able to lay some things out for you to help you understand why, from the moment you got her, how the chain of events of her life led to this behavior. If any of the trainers or breeders feel I’m saying something in error, correct me.

I am not (nor is anyone else) trying to say “you’re a bad owner” by brining up these things, but I’m sure a lot of us feel that you need to understand how your situation got to this point to be able to help your dog possibly overcome this aggression issue.

First, obviously rule out any health issues such as thyroid.

Here’s the chain of events, in order as I understand them:
As others have said, your dog was WAY too young when she was brought home. Those extra 3 weeks are crucial for dogs to learn socialization and to be taught correct behavior. As the personality develops, mom and other littermates are there round-the-clock to make sure everyone is behaving in an acceptable manner. Your dog lost over 500 hours of this natural training and development right off the bat. This does not make you a horrible person, but makes you an uneducated dog owner to take her home this early. It DOES, in my opinion, make the breeder out to be a horrible person.

Second mistake was getting a second dog when she was only 6 months old. Again, makes you uneducated, and I feel that a good breeder would never have sent one of their dogs to a home with another female that was only 6 months old. And, I also think your second dog came home a good week too early as well, but it’s better than 5 weeks. So, that breeder has 2 strikes against them. From what I understand, the best time to introduce a second dog in the mix is when the 1st is a good year old, well-trained, and completely reliant on you. When you get more than 1 dog together when they are that young, they begin to rely on one another and focus on one another too much, and you become background noise without ever really being able to establish that PEOPLE are the LEADERS. You might be part of the pack, but they don’t think of you as the top dogs.

Also, the female issue is a problem…dogs (GSD’s a lot!) have problems with same sex living situations. They see the same sex animal as competition in a way, and dominance and aggression can come out. Again, it can work out, but you have to be very proactive about the situation. Our recently-adopted GSD is a VERY VERY dominant female. Unchecked, I could easily see it turning into a battle of the girls. However, she’s been fine with all the girls she’s met-from equally as dominant to super-submissive (funny, everyone we know has female dogs!). Why? Because she KNOWS she cannot get away with anything. From day 1 she was expected to behave a certain way in ALL her activities. She is with us at all times except when we’re at work, so we can constantly make sure she’s acting in an acceptable manner. This discipline at home has paid off tremendously with dog interactions. She’s dominant and under-socialized, but when we “ehhhh” her when she’s with another dog for getting to be “too much”, you better bet that’s all it takes for her to back off. If she gets attitude and doesn’t listen, play time is temporarily over and she has to go into a down stay. BUT…she’s being supervised. She’s not running around in the backyard with these dogs for hours with her dominant behavior unchecked.

Third mistake is making them outdoor dogs and that this constitutes exercise. I will say that there ARE dogs and people that have healthy relationships when they are outdoor dogs…but it’s not easy and takes a lot of work. First problem with this situation is that you are not around to supervise and correct when bad behavior happens. They are in the backyard/kennel together at all times. Your GSD likely began her aggression with her “kennelmate” in the backyard. Since they didn’t see you as the leader because of their ages when you brought them together and the fact they weren’t separated and supervised, the dominance went uncorrected. GSD’s are working dogs bred to be with HUMANS. They crave being part of the family and having a job to do. They want to follow you around the house and yard, watching over their people. This is what is in their genes. Beyond their intelligence, there is a reason why they are used in so many human-related service tasks. They need constant interaction and stimulation. Many a GSD has gone bad because of boredom (ie owners thinking being in the backyard all the time is constant exercise). Stick a pack on her and take her hiking. Give her things to find on the hikes. Do down stays on leash where one person hides and the other has the leash and have her search for you. Pretend she has a very important job to do.

From what you have described, your dog is obviously smart. Probably too smart. Smart, dominant, under-socialized dogs easily can decide that THEY are boss. It sounds like that is exactly what your girl has done.

I think you need to find a very good trainer who specializes in large breed behavioral issues. Just because you have gone to a lot of trainers doesn’t mean they were good, or that you constantly followed through on what you learned.

As far as the specifics beyond that, I’ll leave that up to the people that have had more experience dealing with these kind of behavioral issues. I do hope that you understand that going back and telling you “you shouldn’t have don’t that” is not trying to bash you and trying to accuse you of being a bad owner. It is trying to help you understand how it got to the point that your dog behaves in this manner. Yes, mistakes were made, but no good things will come about unless there are some major changes. In my opinion, this starts with becoming house dogs that are constantly under your watchful eye.

[Riley's Mom]

GSDElsa - right on, Baby! Excellent information and very well put. They are not bad owners, but they are uneducated and there are many things they can do to make their situation better. There have been some really good suggestions. It's to late to change how the dogs came to live there and at what age, but there is plenty can be done even now.

[Mary Jane]

Originally Posted By: cleodosia we have 2 small children and I am a little afraid of what she might do in the future.

One tiny remark: if you have the time and patience to follow the good suggestions provided here (and that's a big IF), then what your dog might do in the future is BECOME THE BEST FRIEND OF YOUR SMALL CHILDREN.

I hope it works out for everybody in your family.

[jfisher]

Glad to see the OP keeping up with the situation and taking into consideration all this helpful info he's been given...

I may be in kind of a "mood" right now, but I think that poor dog's fate was already decided from the first post the OP made...

-Jackie

[katieliz]

don't think it's your "mood" at all, the energy of the op's words is quite clear. no surprise they've not been back.

many blessings sent out to the dog.

[middleofnowhere]

Sounds like someone who wanted a magic bullet or else approval for "getting rid" of the dog. Sounds like a dog that could have a lot of drive and could have been great in the right situation.

[katieliz]

well thank you to everyone who spent so much time writing here to give the op some absolutely great opinions, suggestions, and advice. someone will read it and benefit, i'm sure!

[Mandalay]

Originally Posted By: Riley's Mom However, if you're not willing and able to provide what the dog needs on a consistent loving basis then I would say to rehome her to someone who really wants her and has the time, energy and desire to give her what she needs. It sounds like you have way to much going on at your house to deal properly with her and a little bit like you'd like to not have to deal with her anymore.

I kind of got this feeling, too. I dont think she wanted to work through the issues with this dog. This is going to mean that this dog is either going to live its life away from its family or remain in a stressful situation. I would not normally tell someone to give up a dog after 7 years, but I hope this dog ends up in a situation where people understand, love and are willing to work with it.

[Puddincat]

The training needs to be continued throughout life. I also think the problems start with poor socialization/bad breeders with pups removed from mom so young. I wish you all the best, great advice was given here. I hope you decided to keep your dog and work with her to help her be the best dog she can be.