This dog is my mother in law's dog that is 14 yrs old. We are currently living with her until we find our house to buy. We had literally only been home for maybe 10 minutes. My wife let the 3 dogs inside the house and was making Amaylie dinner. I usually keep the Malamute outside because I never do trust him at all. As soon as I said , "I think we need to put him outside especially with food around", he bit her. I jumped up and got him away from Amaylie.. Then my wife picked Amaylie up and said, "we need to go". So after I saw her face I kicked the dog so hard in the ribs he tried biting me too.. He better be getting put down monday, but my mother in law is hiking and won't be home until later today. She doesn't even know it has happend yet.
We are all to blame for this. That was the worst part of watching Amaylie in pain and going through it all. The Malamute has bit my mother in law before we ever lived here...twice.. So she should have had him put down a long time ago.. And then we should have never moved in here.. And then we should have never allowed him inside the house. I feel so bad because I knew better and was just getting ready to get him outside before it happend. Sucks. Well, Amaylie got 4 stitches in her face (two per deep wounds)..
This also sucks to say, but this really makes me feel like having ANY dogs around might not be worth it. I feel like getting rid of all of them right now and that is hard to say. I mean, he almost got her eye. Scares me. Sorry the picture was with my phone. I will post an after pic later today.
We don't really know what precipitated the bite. Nor do we have any history on the previous bites. Frankly, from the info guiven here, the 'loaded gun' might be no more than a low power bb gun. I haven't read anything here that screams 'executrion/death penalty', particularly without so much as a vet consult or the owner's thoughts.
It's no more fair to say this dog isn't to be trusted than to say the parents are negligent & irresponsible. Things do happen with even the best people & dogs. I certainly wouldn't rush to jail the parents. Nor would I jump to kill the dog.
Note, this is not the OP's dog. What happens with it is not, nor should it be, his decision. IF the situation is too risky (& perhaps it is) living elsewhere is a choice he & his wife can make.
Sounds like the old fella is lashing out because of what you just said.
1. he's in pain
2. he can't see
3. he can't hear
Anything startling like a unexpected touch or an active child could set him off. It probablly is time for him to go over the bridge...just because it sounds like he's been a good dog for 14 years but now, is so uncomfortable he is lashing out. Not fair to him or people.
I hope you understand this is probably what led to the bite...not really anyone's fault, just an animal in pain without the ability of his senses--traditionally a recipe for disaster. Do not let this one incident affect how you see other dogs including your own--they don't deserve to suffer for the actions of another animal.
I hope your daughter the best in a speedy recovery!
I think the dog should have a behavior eval, and then have judgement passed... He is an old guy and you were in his home... You said you were both looking other ways, how do you know what caused the bite? An why on earth did you kick a senior dog hard enough to make him go for you too? He didn't do this out of malice nor had he premeditated the bite, he's an animal who acts on instinct and in the moment. A small, new creature coming to him in his home could have easily startled the old boy, my 16 year old bit me hard one day when I came home, he couldn't see or hear well, but realized who I was too late. I am not saying her injuries aren't serious, but by the looks of it he gave a "back off!" bite, a bite that would have left some cuts on the bony face of a puppy, but could tear off a human baby face, if he went into an attack your baby girl would be a lot worse off.
Now that I have said that, -I know flaming is on the way- I am DEEPLY sorry for what happened, neither you or your little girl should have had to go through that. She is bless that he didn't get a tooth into her ear or eye, and lucky he didn't bite too hard, goodness knows as strong as those dogs are bones could have been broken. I hope she recovers quickly... I hate seeing a babies hurt, having to go through my niece having surgery to remove a DEEP, big splinter was hard, I can't imagine how you feel. I'll send prayers your way
Sorry, but I have to agree that this dog would have been gone a long time ago in the wild and we humans have dragged his life on while he is in pain and confused.
I think this 14 year old dog with so many health issues is past the point of behavior evaluation.
Yes, he should have never allowed for them to be together but accidents happen. As OP stated he knows it should not have been allowed.
You have to live with a dog you are able to trust so that when they do come across each other there are no bites.
There is no way I would keep a dog that bit anyone in my family.
Even a person like me, who will never have kids in favor of having dogs, understands the bond between parent and child. I don't think it's fair to attack OP because he acted out in defense of his daughter.
If people on the forum are willing to kick other unleashed dogs that run up to you on walks in order to protect your own dog, how are you different than this parent??
You have no right to judge.
Just my .02.
I'm very sorry this happened to the OP, thankfully (even though it required stitches) this wasn't so bad. She'll end up with a scar and no permanent damage.
I agree, given what we now know about the dog's age, health, and bite history, I would think PTS is the most humane thing to do. Obviously the child is a higher priority, and a dog at this age and with these health problems cannot be expected to tolerate a child this age, nor would it be fair to him. It sounds like even before the child came into the picture, his quality of life was lower than what I would subject my dogs to.
I think we need to be very very very careful recommending or condoning euthanasia on a public Internet forum. We weren't there, we haven't assessed the dog, and don't really know what went on. We can offer possibilities but we need to be careful that the person who posts isn't going to take that info and run with it and end up being dead
wrong.
I am a mom and I get it - I would be horrified to see such an injury to my child. I'm also a dog trainer and I can think of 100 reasons for a dog to bite someone that are circumstantial, preventable, and shouldn't (IMO) result in the death of the dog.
Dogs have teeth, dogs can bite. We have to do all that we can to prevent these situations. Sometimes that means lethally removing the problem dog. However, given that his dog is elderly and does not belong to the OP, there are other things to consider. And even aside from all of that, right after a frightening incident like this is not the best time to make life and death decisions. Since the dog can be outside, it seems like keeping child and dog completely separate is the way to go here, at least until everyone directly involved can sit down and decide rationally what to do next.
I agree with both sides. but, sadly, the dog is the one who is suffering all around. He is old, blind and sore. suddenly there is a small child toddling around. and, lets face it, kids and their weird sounds and moves can freak out even a steady dog who isn't used to it.
if he can't see or hear well, it's most likely that she scared him and he reacted out of instinct (esp if he's in pain). and then you have an even bigger person attacking him in anger. OF COURSE he will try to defend himself.
add in that there is a history of bites, again that we don't know when or in what circumstances. Perhaps it would be best that he be put to sleep. Not necessarily because of the bites, but his health conditions that no doubt played a HUGE factor
I have to agree kicking the dog in the ribs was pure and simple anger and probably not needed, the dog is old with a myriad if health issues and should never have been around the child.
That said..... the child's welfare does come first and if the OP cannot insure the 2 are never together the old dog will pay the price.
I have compassion for this old dog. Old dogs get crabby and develop behavioral issues due to pain and have earned their right to be left alone. However it sounds like this may have been more a resource issue.
I hope your little girl heals quickly and without physical or emotional scars.
If you all agree it is the dog's time, please be compassionate with him as he goes.
Originally Posted By: DenaliFofali
If people on the forum are willing to kick other unleashed dogs that run up to you on walks in order to protect your own dog, how are you different than this parent??
You have no right to judge.
Just my .02.
The way I interpreted it was AFTER they got the dog away and inspected his child's face, he attacked the dog. I wouldn't hesitate to beat the crap out of a dog who was attacking my child, but if it had backed off I wouldn't continue my attack.
Having never personally met this dog, I can't give any real judgement on his health or stability. I just went through a very heated debate over a boxer biting his owner's brother, it got ridiculous, and I'm still incensed over it, so perhaps my bad mood leaked over here.
I just believe in looking at everything from all angles, and giving chances. I think if his owner agrees, having him humanely put down would be kind, he's lived a long life, and might even be in pain.
ttall, I'm pretty sure Denali was speaking to me.
EDIT*
I am also on the side of trying to find out what could be wrong with the dog because I have a 15 year old who is doing pretty well, and I would do my best to make sure she is out of her mind before I killed her. I do sometimes forget that not all dogs are so healthy in mind or body at her age.
Okay but think of it from the MIL position......just for a second imagine if someone came to live in your home for a bit, an unfortunate incident happen and they kicked the crap out of your senior dog.....then demanded you PTS said dog. What would you do if it was your dog? Would you put your dog to sleep or get it a medical eval to see what health problem is causing the nipping and biting? Is the dog on pain medicine or joint supplements? Suggesting just because one person doesn't think the quality of life is good to put the dog down is not right especially from a biased person. It was a horrible incident and I know how the OP feels because my son was bite in the stomach by the neighbors GSD when he was 4. But all of us should know better than to pass judgment so quickly on a senior dog. Especially one that we know has health problems and we do not know if he has been given any treatment for.
In no way am I saying "Put this dog down now!!".
What I am saying is that this dog is simply not trust worthy to have around people in general. He's old and his quality of life sounds terrible, he's grumpy and because of it he's acting out and people are getting hurt. He's just past the point of being evaluated.
Personally, *I* would never keep this dog, but I'm not recommending anything.
Honestly, my post was not directed at anyone specifically. I just read a little bit of hostility for OPs actions in a few threads and didn't think it was fair.
We're all dog people here and we all feel just as bad for the dog as we do the little girl and her parents despite what he did.
But we have to consider that OP had to witness his flesh and blood get attacked.
Since she's just a baby she didn't even stand a chance in defending herself - that's definitely a traumatic experience for any parent and we have no idea how we would react in that situation.
After going back and reading and re reading the OP's original post this does not sound like resource guarding....no growling is mention and with resource guarding 99.9 percent of the time there is growl warnings prior to an attack with resource guarding. From all information given it sounds very much like a fear bite. She made a noise, she was wearing something sparkly, she moved quickly, maybe waved her arms....something that startled the dog and caused fear to him. As unfortunate as it is the dog should not have been kicked after the fact and the two should be kept separate. I in no way feel that this incident constitutes him being PTS.
I realize some posts were not directed to me MODS this might be more appropriate in aggression rather than pictures??? have some other thoughts to post will wait to see where this goes.
Many assumptions are being made concerning this dog’s health, temperament, quality of life & history with nothing more to go on than information provided by a distraught & angry parent who doesn’t even own the dog! Worse, lethal advice is being given based on these assumptions that are based on one biased person’s information.
Why oh why are people so quick to kill the dog? Should this poor dog be pts? I don’t know. NOTHING I’ve read in this thread convinces me that anyone else (including the OP) knows either. This deeply personal, very difficult decision is almost always made by a dog’s owner & vet. Even if the dog is dangerous & beyond help, that determination cannot be made here by people that have never directly observed or interacted with this dog. Nor can it be made by the OP.
As PupRescue stated earlier, "I think we need to be very very very careful recommending or condoning euthanasia on a public Internet forum. We weren't there, we haven't assessed the dog, and don't really know what went on. We can offer possibilities but we need to be careful that the person who posts isn't going to take that info and run with it and end up being dead wrong." Stated a bit further on in the same post, "And even aside from all of that, right after a frightening incident like this is not the best time to make life and death decisions."...Amen & tyvm, PupRescue.
That is where a vet consultation comes in not a biased opinion. We have no clue if this dog has ever been on pain medicine, x-rayed, joint supplements, or any pertinent medical information. Obviously if the dog was running around outside, came into the house by his own strength and power, and bite someone while standing on his own four legs the HD can not be that bad. If you check the senior section of this board there are many members that have dogs with HD and they stay with their owner until the very end when the sparkle is no longer in their eyes. That means that the dog can not stand from a lying position on their own and is no longer happy to be around. HD is not an automatic death sentence nor is blindness or deafness. My old girl is partially blind, deaf, and has spinal fusion but she still walks, runs, plays, and potties on her own while on pain meds and joint supplements. She does growl occasionally when she is startled and she has bitten the leg of my husbands pants when he stepped over her but the owner of senior dogs always knows the chances and can gauge the quality of the dogs life better than someone that does not live with the dog on a regular basis.
Obviously, I don't know what this old guys quality of life is like, but then again neither do the people that want to keep him going. Meanwhile, there are people getting bitten and it's not just children.
hate to be flamed but is it possible the events as stated are not documented?just not comfortable with the pictures as posted -sorry if I am being a jerk but as medical person not sure about pics posted.PLEASE prove me wrong.Just know that I did not attack OP in any post.just wondering what is happening here?still wondering what the actual owner of dog and owner of home thinks?Scary to put myself out there but pics seem PS
ttall -- That's an interesting observation. Is there anything specific or just overall? The bites I've seen didn't look like the picture.
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