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My dog bit someone

25K views 192 replies 70 participants last post by  GSDTrain 
#1 ·
This is a post I never thought I would have to write. My beautiful boy bit a jogger 3 days ago. I held off posting until I spoke with my lawyer, seems it's safe to talk about it here.

Details:
1.5 year old intact male GSD. Did puppy and obedience classes with great effect and socialized well until the beginning of last winter at which point he was about a year old. Since then he has had limited contact with strangers as we live way out in the country and have few visitors during the winter months. About a month ago I had friends over and he showed a great deal of aggression towards them, which was something I had never seen in him. He lives in a loving home with 3 kids, one of which is 2.5. He is wonderful with all of us. My toddler can do anything with him and he is so gentle. We also have 2 cats. He harasses them but does not try to hurt them. Just wants to sniff their bums, which irritates the heck out of them.

The bite occurred Sunday morning. He was outside on his lead for a morning pee while I made coffee. Next thing I know I hear ferocious barking coming from the front of the house. I ran out and witnessed him barking like crazy at a woman that was jogging by on the street. She started screaming and running around trying to get away from him. She fell down. As soon as I got down the driveway and yelled for him to come he did, and ran up and into the house. My wife walked her home while I stayed and gave a statement to the police along with providing vet papers and other details. His lead (250lb beast cable) failed due to fatigue at the clip.

The woman went to the hospital. Her injuries are a bite to the buttocks and a broken wrist. When she was running backwards from him she fell and landed hard on her wrist. We have reached out to them and offered to pay bills and help in any way we can. For now they are not ready to talk to us. My dog is quarantined in home for 10 days and right now the animal control officer is on vacation so I have no details as to what the next steps are. I know he will go for a vicious dog hearing as the town requires it. I also know at this point he will be terrible if brought into a room full of strangers.

Here’s some things I noticed about the attack. He had about 20 seconds with the woman before I was able to make it out the door and down the driveway. During that time he barked like crazy and got very close to her and bit once. With the way she was jumping around, I’m not even sure if the bite was intentional on his part. (Please realize, I’m not trying to dismiss the incident in any way, just trying to give you guys as much info as possible.) I also have not seen the pictures of the bite yet so I can’t say how bad it was. I do know there were no stitches required. When she fell backwards, he did not advance on her, just kept barking.

Right now, I’m not sure what the outcome will be. I don’t expect the town to force euthanasia but keeping him is not an option. My wife is steadfast and I can’t really blame her. The double jeopardy laws of RI are just too much of a risk. I have tried to contact the German Shepherd Rescue of New England and they can’t help until he is in a shelter and in dire need. I’m not even sure placing him is possible with a bite on his record. I have also reached out to the state police to see if they would be interested in evaluating him but have no info yet. My next call will be to Vom Winhaus Shepherds to see if they could do an eval once the 10 day quarantine is up.

My family is traumatized right now and I’m having trouble dealing with this emotionally. This is my fault and I will always have to live with that. This poor woman was sooo scared and I just can’t get the scene out of my mind. I love my boy and have been spending lots of time with him but none of that really matters now. What’s done is done. I guess I would like to hear anything you guys have that might help me place him or otherwise handle the situation.
 
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#52 ·
I am very sorry to hear about your situation and so very glad to hear how responsible you are being to correct for it. You had asked about fencing in a wooded lot.......there is a site if you google "best friend fence" that offers a "heavy duty" dog fence that is built like a deer fence so it is extremly high and you don't have to dig into the ground to put it up. I am awaiting mine to arrive any day now. i think the site is http://www.bennersgardens.com but I could be wrong so try the google if that doesn't work. Our prayers are with you and your family.
 
#53 ·
Originally Posted By: ThorsAny more recommendations on muzzles? ( I like the ones I saw, but more options and info is always better than less )
I got the Invisible Muzzle from Elite K9 just yesterday and I like it a lot. The dog accepted it readily, he can drink and pant with it on, and you can feed tiny treats through the holes. It's easy to put on, the plastic is thick and very flexible, and I think it looks less intimidating to the general public (also it doesn't hurt if he bumps into you with it). I would stay away from the plastic basket muzzles, they don't look very safe to me.

I also can't say enough about the great service and speed of processing from Elite K9.
 
#54 ·
Originally Posted By: ThorsThe fence in the backyard is gonna be tough. On a slightly off topic tangent, has anyone done a fence through thickly wooded terain and any idea how much it will cost per foot? I know I can't dig 2 inches without hitting a bolder, so I'm sure it's gonna cost me a fortune. I just finished clear cutting about a half acre so we could have more of a yard so I'm thinking of fencing at least that for now. It will wait until I get full details from animal control but thinking about it keeps my mind off other things for now.
Thors you are very welcome. It's easy to sink time into answering someone that obviously cares about their family and dog, reacted properly when an incident happens and then reaches out for help. I live in fear of these types of situations - I have a dog that has protection training and is reactive/territorial along with having some barrier aggression. We are working on it, he's come a long way but I need to keep him under my thumb at all times.

I don't know about your financial situation, but putting up a 6' fence around a half acre will cost serious dough. Close to 20K I would bet at least. I would entertain the idea of only fencing part of the yard for either a run, or a small "upper back yard". Don't forget to padlock the gate or gates that are not in immediate sight (or all of them if kids are involved who often leave things open).

Good luck.
 
#56 ·
Originally Posted By: Liesje Like Sue said, it's telling that your dog bit once (doesn't sound like the bite was that severe?) knocked the woman over, but did not continue to bite. That's a good sign, if any good can come of this.

To me this sounds like a dog that needs more leadership and socialization and this was really a prey bite. I think that a dog that is truly aggressive will do some real damage when given the chance. I'm not saying this to make light of the situation or remove the responsibility, but it helps to understand what motivates the dog when they bite.
Like Chris mentioned, it's impossible to be certain but I'd guess it was an initial fear/territorial response from the dog. Once he got there, all of the erratic movement away from him put him into prey drive instinctually which is why he bit her behind. True aggression/fight would mean that he'd be almost impossible to call off of her (especially since he's had no formal training in that area) and he would continue to attack her even when she was on the ground. These actions combined with how well he does with the family kids leads me to the conclusion that he just needs some work. Obviously, don't believe me 100% until someone that knows what they are doing sees this dog interact with all situations in person.
 
#57 ·
i am sorry for what happened to you. i agree to get with a trainer/behaviorist for guidence on this. a human bite is something that none of us ever want to see with our dogs, its a very disappointing situation to say the least. i think most owners reaction to this would be rehoming the dog etc. but, i do believe in this case the dog should be given the chance with the proper training. its a huge commitment on your part to follow through with the advice given by a professional. but you can work with this. i am speaking from experience i have had similar situations.

i can see a dog breaking chain and maybe going after animal prey, but a human prey thing tells me he has not the ability to determine whats a threat and what is not. maybe the frustration of being tied out watching things go by has definitely made things worse.
we all as dog owners have made mistakes the important thing is that you pick up from here learn from them, and move on in a positive way.

good luck to you,
debbie
 
#58 ·
This is meant to offer some comfort, not to diminish how upsetting this is for you and all involved.

Tie-out chains can cause tension. Tension can ramp up aggression, excitement, drive to chase when visually stimulated. So many do put dogs on tie-outs. But, when a dog can visually be stimulated seeing someone jog by, this can, combined with the restriction of being on a chain, send drive, frustration, aggression, overexcitement through the roof. Then when a chain breaks suddenly, the dog is shocked, startled, already overstimulated and tense from being held back.. and now a length of chain is chasing him after the fleeing woman. I am suggesting, a different way to contain the dog may help. A behaviorist, too. I am again not saying that this is not upsetting, that there may or may not be temperament issues involved.. but a dog on a chain has all his switched flipped to "ON" when anything runs by.

Good luck with the behaviorist. I am wishing the very best for your dog-- and you and your family, too!
 
#59 ·
Originally Posted By: RavenSophiJust to get it right, I'm not completely blaming her. There can be blamed placed on the owner of the dog too...I'm just saying, if she did the basics...there might not have been a bite.
If I didn't know better, I'd say you had a dog that attacked someone...it's the only reason I can think of where anyone can blame a person for being attacked by a dog.
 
#60 ·
Jeff, for some of us here part of it is knowing dog behavior and how they react. I don't really see the search for "why" or the explanations as to "why" as necessarily blaming the person who was bitten. (Some people did seem to do that.) However, screaming people DO inspire dogs to chase and bite. If people realized that, there would be even fewer incidents.

Regarding the fence - If the OP does 1/2 privacy & 1/2 woven wire he can probably get it done for around 5k. I live on a very rocky hillside & my fence was less than that - only a very small part of it was already there.
 
#61 ·
Originally Posted By: middleofnowhereHowever, screaming people DO inspire dogs to chase and bite. If people realized that, there would be even fewer incidents.
If everybody knew everything it would be a perfect world wouldn't it?
 
#62 ·
Jeff, No that would not make a perfect world. To make a perfect world ... well, we'd have to start with people being kind and using their knowledge wisely and kindly with the benefit of all in mind.
It would make a very boring world if everyone knew everything -- it would be a pointless world I think.
 
#64 ·
Originally Posted By: RavenSophiJust to get it right, I'm not completely blaming her. There can be blamed placed on the owner of the dog too...I'm just saying, if she did the basics...there might not have been a bite.
i would blame the POS tie out and the lack of socializeation on the onwers part..

yes joggers trigger prey drive and im sure that most of us on this board have had our dogs react to joggers like a bunny rabbit. with proper socializeing you will teach the dog that a jogger is not a bunny rabbit or a threat and that they are to be left alone. period.

i cant say that the OP's dog was triggered by prey, could've been a number of things. BUT your not owning everybody's loveable golden retiever either...your owning one of the worlds most powerfull breeds of dog. learn that, understand that, respect that, and most of all, properly own that..you wouldnt go out and buy a .357 mag without learning how to use one would you??? no..you would learn how it works and how to use one, same goes with a powerfull breed such and the German Shepherd Dog.
 
#65 ·
and for further record..dont buy the cheap tie outs you get at your local pet store.

go to the local hardware store and buy a chain and put heavy duty clips on it..gaurantee to rust apart before breaking. also another thing to think about it useing 2 collars when tieing the dog out...i use a 2 inch flat leather collar and a choker..in case he slips the flat collar the choker will still have him..the choker is just a safety and i would never tie a dog out with ONLY a choker on..
 
#66 ·
You can get cheap 8'long x 6' high wood panels for approximately $27. This is what I did.

Along the sides and front, I put these panels. A 40' long side would cost $135 in panels. Then you need some four by four posts, and concrete to set the posts, and screws. A bucked of paint or stain is an added touch that I could not afford at this time. Remember -- this is for show, not for leaving your dog there all day as a doggy sitter.

It is not the prettyest fencing on the block, but it is sturdy and functional.


The back is simple wire horse fence with T posts, but I overlook a ravine in that direction with no chance of people back there:


close up:


If you use the house for one side you can make a pretty safe fence and not break the bank. Fencing that side cost me $600 including having my contractor put it up for me.
 
#67 ·
The stair step look is because I am on a hill. But it really doesn't look all that bad. I feel 100% safe letting puppies and dogs run and play in there.

By adding the three panels to the side with the house I increased the yard size by 24' x 40' for about $100. I could have stained it for that I suppose.

Since I have a couple of sheds on the other side, I only needed three panels on that side to cut off the view from my kennels to the neighbors.

The yard does not have to be as large as this, but it would be good to have the ability to add on.
 
#68 ·
Icht2,

I bought cow chain from the local hardware store. I put those heavy duty clips on it. The clips would still fatigue every so many months. That is how Frodo got hit by a car and had his leg shattered.

I would never tie a dog out with a choker chain attached. A choker chain is a training collar and that is all it is. Frodo nearly died lying on the deck with a choke chain on. I will never leave a choker on a dog, maybe a martingale though.

This dog that the OP has been posting about has been showing increasing aggression to his visitors as well. I am all for not allowing your dog to roam and letting him out briefly on a chain to potty. But I am afraid that the chaining isn't helping matters for this dog.
 
#69 ·
A friend of mine has the fence like Selzer posted and she asked if we could help her put the wire fence on the inside of her privacy fence because the dogs keep knocking the boards loose and getting out. I wouldn't tust my dogs with a privacy fence if I had a problem dog.

Val
 
#70 ·
Originally Posted By: Wisc.TigerA friend of mine has the fence like Selzer posted and she asked if we could help her put the wire fence on the inside of her privacy fence because the dogs keep knocking the boards loose and getting out. I wouldn't tust my dogs with a privacy fence if I had a problem dog.

Val
I can second this, based on my first hand knowledge. I have a 6' privacy fence and every so often I have a foster that is really into fence fighting. That kind of pressure on the fence (from a dog hitting it in the act of fence fighting) will eventually unseat the board. It only takes one picket to become loose to allow a dog to get out of the fence.
I would highly recommend an interior barrier of some type to keep the dog(s) off the wooden fence.
Sheilah
 
#71 ·
Originally Posted By: selzerIcht2,

I bought cow chain from the local hardware store. I put those heavy duty clips on it. The clips would still fatigue every so many months. That is how Frodo got hit by a car and had his leg shattered.

I would never tie a dog out with a choker chain attached. A choker chain is a training collar and that is all it is. Frodo nearly died lying on the deck with a choke chain on. I will never leave a choker on a dog, maybe a martingale though.

This dog that the OP has been posting about has been showing increasing aggression to his visitors as well. I am all for not allowing your dog to roam and letting him out briefly on a chain to potty. But I am afraid that the chaining isn't helping matters for this dog.
i didnt say keep the dog primarily on a choker..the choker is a "safety net." clip the flat and choker to the tie out. the choker has no effect unless the dog slips the flat collar. if the dog slips the flat collar, the choker will pull tight and not let the dog loose. therefore keeping the dog on the tie-out and not letting the dog loose to bite a jogger in the OP's case. look at the whole scenario..which would you rather deal with..dog on two collars on a tie out or a bite victum??? i choose 2 collars...

no chaining isnt going to help, im just giveing further advice as far as tieing out the dog.
 
#72 ·
look if you tie out/chain a dog most of it's life it's going to be aggressive. either take the dog off the chain and treat it like a member of the family or rehome the dog.

If the dog is too far gone aggression wise, then do him a favor, put him out of his suffering, and to please not get another dog unless you're willing to get rid of the tie-out and do formal training from day 1.
 
#73 ·
Originally Posted By: Wisc.TigerA friend of mine has the fence like Selzer posted and she asked if we could help her put the wire fence on the inside of her privacy fence because the dogs keep knocking the boards loose and getting out. I wouldn't tust my dogs with a privacy fence if I had a problem dog.

Val
But really, why would you have your dog out there unsupervised? I have 5 acres, fenced. But dogs will be dogs, I know they could dig out, etc. Nobody is outside without a person with them around here.
 
#74 ·
This dog in question, I wouldn't. But there are times when my dogs are outside in a fenced in area by themselves. I can keep and eye on them from the house, but I have a business and I can't be outside 8 hours a day. With 4 dogs that is about 2 hours a day when they can be a dog away from me. Plus add in the play time and some training and I run out of hours to be around my dogs when ever they are outside.

Each person has their own comfort level with dogs being outside. It depends on my dogs and what is going on inside and outside.

Val
 
#75 ·
So sorry to hear your story. Being a runner and also a GSD owner I can understand both sides. Advice to any other runners out there, I carry dog bones in one hand and mase in the other. It is the dogs choice. I also live out in the country where no one ties up their dogs. Every spring I go to the neighboring houses and bring dog bones and make friends with the dogs. I have also attended a 3 day dog behavior seminar at Wolf Park so I know what to do when a dog does come out at me. Stand still like a tree with no eye contact and let the dog smell me. --No touch, no talk, no eye contact-- I also know "cut off signals" like turning to the side and move some dirt around with my foot. This shows the dog that I am not a threat and just minding my own business. Never face a dog straight on. There is only one dog "Sasha" about a mile and 1/2 from me that I have tried to meet but he growled at me and would not even let me out of the car. When I told the owner that I have an invisible fence he just said that he moved to the country so he would not have to tie up his dog. I will try to make friends with Sasha again but it is scary for me to run past that house. I am "on guard" and have my mase ready if needed. Once again I understand both sides, a person cant help it if they are scared. Best of luck to you and your GDS.
 
#76 ·
I'm a runner and a GSD owner too.

The bottom line is, the owner is ALWAYS responsible for the behaviour of the dog. It is the OWNER'S responsibility to ensure the dog does not bite and never is placed in a situation where it may do so. And I speak as the owner of a dog that has tried to kill another dog.

I think the OP in this case has stepped up, so kudos to him. But I just wanted to comment on this ridiculous 'who's to blame' comments.
 
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