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My dog bit someone

25K views 192 replies 70 participants last post by  GSDTrain 
#1 ·
This is a post I never thought I would have to write. My beautiful boy bit a jogger 3 days ago. I held off posting until I spoke with my lawyer, seems it's safe to talk about it here.

Details:
1.5 year old intact male GSD. Did puppy and obedience classes with great effect and socialized well until the beginning of last winter at which point he was about a year old. Since then he has had limited contact with strangers as we live way out in the country and have few visitors during the winter months. About a month ago I had friends over and he showed a great deal of aggression towards them, which was something I had never seen in him. He lives in a loving home with 3 kids, one of which is 2.5. He is wonderful with all of us. My toddler can do anything with him and he is so gentle. We also have 2 cats. He harasses them but does not try to hurt them. Just wants to sniff their bums, which irritates the heck out of them.

The bite occurred Sunday morning. He was outside on his lead for a morning pee while I made coffee. Next thing I know I hear ferocious barking coming from the front of the house. I ran out and witnessed him barking like crazy at a woman that was jogging by on the street. She started screaming and running around trying to get away from him. She fell down. As soon as I got down the driveway and yelled for him to come he did, and ran up and into the house. My wife walked her home while I stayed and gave a statement to the police along with providing vet papers and other details. His lead (250lb beast cable) failed due to fatigue at the clip.

The woman went to the hospital. Her injuries are a bite to the buttocks and a broken wrist. When she was running backwards from him she fell and landed hard on her wrist. We have reached out to them and offered to pay bills and help in any way we can. For now they are not ready to talk to us. My dog is quarantined in home for 10 days and right now the animal control officer is on vacation so I have no details as to what the next steps are. I know he will go for a vicious dog hearing as the town requires it. I also know at this point he will be terrible if brought into a room full of strangers.

Here’s some things I noticed about the attack. He had about 20 seconds with the woman before I was able to make it out the door and down the driveway. During that time he barked like crazy and got very close to her and bit once. With the way she was jumping around, I’m not even sure if the bite was intentional on his part. (Please realize, I’m not trying to dismiss the incident in any way, just trying to give you guys as much info as possible.) I also have not seen the pictures of the bite yet so I can’t say how bad it was. I do know there were no stitches required. When she fell backwards, he did not advance on her, just kept barking.

Right now, I’m not sure what the outcome will be. I don’t expect the town to force euthanasia but keeping him is not an option. My wife is steadfast and I can’t really blame her. The double jeopardy laws of RI are just too much of a risk. I have tried to contact the German Shepherd Rescue of New England and they can’t help until he is in a shelter and in dire need. I’m not even sure placing him is possible with a bite on his record. I have also reached out to the state police to see if they would be interested in evaluating him but have no info yet. My next call will be to Vom Winhaus Shepherds to see if they could do an eval once the 10 day quarantine is up.

My family is traumatized right now and I’m having trouble dealing with this emotionally. This is my fault and I will always have to live with that. This poor woman was sooo scared and I just can’t get the scene out of my mind. I love my boy and have been spending lots of time with him but none of that really matters now. What’s done is done. I guess I would like to hear anything you guys have that might help me place him or otherwise handle the situation.
 
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#2 ·
I am so sorry for what you are going through, but in all honesty placing a dog with a bite record is unlikely to be an option for you. Rescues will not take bite cases - the liability is too high.

If you want your dog to live and your town does not force euthanasia, the only way is for you to keep him and work with a good trainer as well as taking extra measures to ensure he will never be in a situation where he can bite again.
 
#3 ·
My dog Basu did the same thing and it was a fear bite (bites from behind are fear bites). I am guessing (and I stress guessing b/c you need a qualified animal behaviorist to evaluate your dog to get a real idea of what is going on) that your dog has become fear aggressive due to lack of socialization and weak nerves on his part. My Basu was undersocialized before I adopted him. He was exposed to very few people and spent most of his time locked in a cage in the garage. He was gentle, sweet and totally predictable with those that he knew but he turned into Cujo around people who came into his territory that he did not know. He broke out of my yard a few times and went after the mailman and he was never, ever trustworthy off leash in his territory. A tie out would have been a terrible option for him. A wooden fence worked best as he couldn't see out and didn't get as worked up. After he broke out of the fence I always went out with him as he listened very well to me.

The bite also shocked me as I'd never had a dog who bit before. Luckily the person who got bit did not pursue it and the bite itself was very minor. It was a wake up call for me though and continued with OB classes through Advanced OB and his CGC as well as a lot of counter conditioning.

I can write more later but just wanted to say that I understand what you're going through and what a shock it is.
 
#4 ·
I didn't read your whole post. You will not and should not place your dog with someone else unless they have experience rehabbing fear aggressive dogs. If I had tried to do that with Basu he would have been pts for sure.

Hire a qualified animal behaviorist and trainer and start working on counter-conditioning him and properly socializing him. It can be done! Basu traveled to other people's houses, went on vacation with me, lived a normal dog life in my household, etc. I just understood his limits and never pushed him over them!

He is in all likeliness a very poor working candidate as your description of the attack sounds like he is fearful and does not have a clear head for situations that pose a real threat. Again, that does not mean that he is a lost cause!

He is a dog and just like people get in physical fights, dogs sometimes bite.
 
#5 ·
I am thinking it COULD be prey motivated. Rayne and KC can sound VERY serious and VERY mean, intimidating etc when they are simply playing with each other. I would DEFINITELY have him evaluated by someone who knows and understands GSD behavior.

As Ruth said it COULD be fear aggression but I am thinking a jogger running by the property and then acting spastic it COULD also be prey. It is really tough to call in a situation like this without actually witnessing the dog and human.
 
#7 ·
Thanks for the info. I will have to see what my options are once the animal control officer gets back, and I get to speak with the victim. I was inclined to think fear aggression as well but I feel so unqualified at this point I'm second guessing myself on every thought I have.

One thing I did want to mention and forgot. He was recently vaccinated for rabies (second time), about 2 months ago and I found quite a bit of literature about potential issues with that. Since he was so good before his social hiatus, I have to wonder if that has anything to do with it. He was also diagnosed with lyme disease about 6 months ago and treated successfully. He has always had advantix monthly which I thought would protect him but my vet said she has seen this happen a few times. Could Lyme have anything to do with the behavior?
 
#8 ·
Sorry to hear about your situation. I can't imagine the feeling. I would find a professional to help train him and you to deal with this aggression.

I commend you on owning up to the fact your puppy has an issue instead of denying it. Clearly shows you are a responsible owner.
 
#9 ·
http://www.tufts.edu/vet/behavior/ would be where I was heading ASAP after quarantine. It will demonstrate the seriousness of your response to the incident, and may give you enough information to feel comfortable with keeping him.

I am very sorry about the dog-I would also neuter him since management is getting difficult. Not that it would cure anything, but might help. I would also not leave him out unsupervised and would comply with any muzzling that they might want.

It really is too much for us to be able to tell over the internet-his behavior, temperament, etc. He could be just a typical overly excited, under NILIF'd dog. Or he could be off. Just can't tell!

That Tuft's clinic is well known and respected.
 
#10 ·
Thyroid issues can trigger aggression, so you might want to get a thyroid check done to rule that out if you plan to go the behaviourist route.

Have you worked with a trainer before?

If I were you, I would wait until things calm down before you make any real decisions. This is a shock and you need time to absorb that.
 
#11 ·
I'm not sure about treated lyme disease, but there is a link between lyme and aggressive behaviour.

If you google that you'll find lots of information on lyme and aggression in dogs (I believe it can also cause it in people).
 
#12 ·
Thors,

I also know what you are going through. We had a similar problem with Wolf, except he bit our friendly neighbor as we were all standing there, with Wolf on leash. Fortunately, our neighbor was very understanding. What we thought was odd at the time is that he had just completed another obedience course. Later we learned that with greater confidence, came some "courage" to bite.

We saw a veterinary behaviorist and got advice we could actually apply. I am not knowledgeable about dog training, but I found desensitization something that can work. I think you could also work with your boy if there is any room for reconsideration. Could you explain more about double jeopardy laws of RI and what they would mean if your boy bit again?

I'm terribly sorry that you are going through this.

Mary Jane
 
#13 ·
My dog did the same thing, more then once, which is the subject of a different post.

Fortunately, knocking down a jogger in a sno-mobile suit did not cause any serious harm; however, there was one incident in which the dog was reported to animal control in Minnesota. I had to keep the dog inside for ten days, and then have a vet examine him.

Of course we are working with him, my trainer and I, to try and prevent this from ever happening again.

Based on what you said, my first thought is keep and work with the dog. Beyond that, there are some rescue groups that might take the dog. However, if the dog is overly aggressive, rather then being killed a few rescues will turn the dog over to a professional trainer.

There are ways to train the dog, and based on your initial comments this dog is not vicious. A vicious dog would have attacked and not stopped.
 
#14 ·
I'm sorry, this sucks. It could have been a prey bite which followed the initial territorial fear response, who knows. You will not be able to place him anywhere with the bite incident, so your options are to either put him down or get control of him. Personally I would do everything in my power to avoid option #1, so lets focus on what can be done and how that applies to your liability right now...

1. Neuter him ASAP. It can bring down aggression in general. Not guaranteed to, but it's easy and shows you are very serious about this problem.

2. No more tie outs EVER, especially in the front of the house. It's an invitation to disaster leaving a dog that is territorial at all tied up in plain sight of pedestrians. Best option would be to fence your back yard or part of your yard to make a run if the back yard is too big to fence (you said you're in the country). 6' privacy is the best option if possible. Again, this shows you are serious about the situation.

3. Condition him to a muzzle. It sounds like you don't need it in the house or anything, but you will need to get him out for heavy socialization and you will need to be calm and in charge when you do. The muzzle will help you and your wife be calm and confident knowing that nobody can get bit.

4. Enlist the help of a trainer/behavioralist ASAP. Get him evaluated and into classes. Bounce trainers off of everyone here on the board, we can help you find someone that can help.

5. Your dog has lost all decision making authority. His only decision should be to look to you, or your family for guidance when assessing any new situation. It takes some conditioning and training to achieve, but it can be done and this should be the focus of any trainer along with socialization and teaching you to recognize his body language so you know when something will happen before it actually does. This means you control all interaction with visitors around the house - on leash.

You reacted properly when the incident happened, and if you follow through on the above nobody can say you did not react and take things seriously. Good luck.
 
#15 ·
Im sorry you and he are in this fix, he is not 2 yet so he is not mature yet, he did what is natural for GSD to protect his home, which is why you cant trust them free, to make their own judgements as at that age their like a teenage boy showing their but-. You dont say if he is show or working line, and the training is different for them. So with out alot of info on him I would say supervision or confinement.I will say if he intended to hurt her she would have been done by the time you got there, and he would not have come when you called him,so it sounds like youth and training,both that can be corrected if they let you have him back. They wont just let you rehome so I would go on a search for a trainer and sign him up to prove he will be handled to the city,or set up fencing so you can prove he is confined when not supervised,it might work. I hope so best
 
#16 ·
Sorry to hear about what happened.

So many people have offered their advice already that I don't have anything great to add. Just don't give up on him!

I'm sure the woman acting like a spaz didn't help the situation any. I hate when people get so darn excited around my dogs...some people just don't know any better.

We had about 10 people over the house last weekend in the yard for a bonfire, and one of my fiancee's friends decided to tap Marshall on the head (which he doesn't normally like unless it's me or Sarah) and then proceed to run around in circles crazily and yell (purposefully getting him riled up). When Marshall reacted and barked at him, he got scared and looked at me like..."what's wrong with your dog?" with this blank stare. I was angry. What do you expect you moron? It's enough that my dogs are calmly dealing with a bunch of strangers at the house...and you're going to go ahead and act like an idiot on top of that?? Pissed me right off.

Anyways...sorry to blab on. Best of luck with your situation.
 
#17 ·
I'm sure that the woman was terrified when the dog broke his chain and came charging at her. I certainly would have been. Of course she was trying to get away--she didn't want to get bit the first time and then didn't want to get bit again.

It is obvious that you love him and truly want to do well by him. I think neutering and muzzling is an excellent idea as is building a 6 foot privacy fence and returning to square one with training and especially NILIF. And please don't be upset with him for doing this. If one of your kids hurt another child in a fight you would work hard to figure out why your child did it. I hope your family will do the same with your dog.

The vaccination and lymes disease could have something to do with it but your dog is also reaching an age where these types of behaviors come up, especially with unneutered males. The chain scenario is also a set up for problems and all kinds of aggression (territorial and fear come to mind).

Please keep us updated.
 
#18 ·
Thanks for all of the advice everyone. Let me add some more detail.

The double-jeopardy law states that if a dog bites a second time the owner if liable for double damages, the dog will be euthanized, and criminal prosecution can be ordered. It makes keeping him a VERY big decision for us. I love him like one of my own children, but I can not risk losing my house. If I lived alone I wouldn't think twice, but I have a family that I am responsible to. It's not a deal breaker, but like I said, it's a huge decision and my wife has to feel comfortable with it for it to work.

The lead that broke is in the back of the house. My guess would be the lead snapped and he was tootling around enjoying a little free alone time when he heard or saw the jogger. My driveway is about 150 feet. I didn't see this part, but he likely came tearing down the driveway like a mad dog. As BowWow said, she must have been scared to death. Her screams will be with me forever, they were those of someone afraid for her life. I know the protocol when a dog charges, and even then I think I would have reacted the same. He's a big boy and can be extremely intimidating. All this happened in less than a two minute time frame from when I went in the back door to running out the front door. I play it over and over in my head.

He's been NILIF'd from day one but needs much more. I did not work with a true behaviorist, so again I take the blame. In hindsight I should have seen this as a possible outcome. I hate hindsight...

The reason I say keeping him is not an option at this time is purely in concern for my wife. We've had a series of things in our lives that caused us great stress, won't go into that here. This was the tipping point for her and almost put her in the hospital, and not the injury type of hospital. She's already started some intensive therapy to help get through this. She has softened a bit and we spent time with him out in the kennel (my house was previously owned by a breeder so I have an attached 40ft kennel building). She loves him and does not want to give up on him, but is still adamant that he needs to find a new home. If over the coming days she starts to feel better about keeping him, he stays, but right now I will not even consider it. I support her 100% in this and we will make the final call together.

As far as trainers in the area, the only one I've found so far is Vom Winhaus Shepherds in Exeter RI owned by Bob & Marianne Winski. I have not spoken with them yet and do not know if they can help. Any feed back would be appreciated. I will also call the Tufts Behavioral center and see what they have to say. For now, I continue to play with him in the kennel and give him all the love I can. It gets harder and harder to think about what may come, but I'm trying to live in the now and enjoy his company while I can.

If anyone knows of any trainers in RI that may be able to help, please post them. I can travel within reason so CT and MA are also an option. Can't do anything until the 10 days is up but I'd like to have something setup for that 11th day.

Oh, one last thought. Best place to get a muzzle for him? Best kind of muzzle? I have a cheapo mesh muzzle that is next to useless so I must find a good one ASAP.
 
#19 ·
I use the police muzzle from Elite K9 for Teagan anytime we're outside and for walks. It's extremely solid and a good price as well.

http://www.elitek9.com/Muzzles/index.htm

Here's a pic of her wearing it so you can see what it's like:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2750574&l=b8a92d8701&id=630190844
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2750576&l=60ec1a49b0&id=630190844

For running and longer walks in hot weather we have a wire muzzle for faster air flow, but this is a great all-purpose muzzle and extremely solid. Teagan has no problems wearing it at all (whoever owned her before muzzle trained her).
 
#21 ·
Originally Posted By: Christian2009I'm sure the woman acting like a spaz didn't help the situation any. I hate when people get so darn excited around my dogs...some people just don't know any better.
Umm...no offense, but your example is completely different than this man's situation.

Also, it doesn't sound like she acted like a "spaz." A big, unfamiliar dog was barking and or moving towards her. You better believe 99/100 people are going to run or try to get away. It's the only logical thing to do. Not everyone has friendly dogs.

To the OP: I don't really have much else to add to your situation, but I wish you good luck and hope that you are able to keep your GS and everything turns out okay.
 
#22 ·
Originally Posted By: ThorsThanks Jarn, those look nice. Good padding.

I also found http://www.fordogtrainers.com and they have quite a few. If anyone has experience with them please let me know.

I'm going to wait for a few opinons before I go ahead and order anything.
Never used fordogtrainers.com, so I can't say. Elite K9 has had great customer service, I've bought stuff from them a few times. Very good to work with determining sizing, very contactable, and fast too (esp. to Canada, which always surprises me but is nice).
 
#24 ·
Jarn, thanks for the info. That's +1 for Elite K9.

Michelle, I don't know for sure. I do know that giving him to anyone still leaves a potential liability for me. I would only house him with an accomplised trainer I fully trusted which severely limits my ability to place him. Thanks for the prayers, I need them.
 
#25 ·
I still believe alot of over reaction is going on , this dog isnt agressive, maybe alittle prey drive driven, but the way she reacted was part of how trainers teach bite , Remember they use a dogs natural instints to train to a higher level ,on command, yours did a normal thing for a young untrained dog, just fence and give the dog a job.You already have good natural behavior in prey drive, protection, and control in a hiper situtation. All are normal ,the only thing was it running into a women who was behaving oddly. Not the dogs fault but was the fault of your equipment. Dont give up as there is nothing wrong with the dog, but kenneling might change that,your seperating it from its pack and will stress the dog and after the hold ,it will coming home looking for normal or direction. Im worried abot the title of agressive when he is quite normal for its age and what can happen to him if the title sticks.best
 
#26 ·
A lot of misinformation there about protection training. This behavior is not appropriate for a protection trained dog, or in a dog suitable for protection training.

But I don't think the dog is a hopeless cause either. It could be prey driven, could be fear based, could be territoriality... could be any combination of those things. Without seeing it there is no way to tell.

John (Zeus) gave EXCELLENT advice.

Working with a good behaviorist and trainer is the optimal situation as it will give the dog and owners the skills needed to prevent anything like this from occurring in the future. But considering the home/family situation, it's understandable that may not be an option here.

And on muzzles... the big leather muzzle shown in the thread from Elite K9 is way overkill. That sort of muzzle is designed for muzzle fighting... a protection training technique where the dog uses the muzzle as a battering ram against the "bad guy". Very large, heavy, uncomfortable and expensive for the sort of muzzle use that may be needed here. A wire basket muzzle or plastic muzzle like the Jafco and Ramco styles is perfectly sufficient, cheaper, and will be cooler, lighter weight and thus much more comfortable for the dog.
 
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