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My dog bit someone

25K views 192 replies 70 participants last post by  GSDTrain 
#1 ·
This is a post I never thought I would have to write. My beautiful boy bit a jogger 3 days ago. I held off posting until I spoke with my lawyer, seems it's safe to talk about it here.

Details:
1.5 year old intact male GSD. Did puppy and obedience classes with great effect and socialized well until the beginning of last winter at which point he was about a year old. Since then he has had limited contact with strangers as we live way out in the country and have few visitors during the winter months. About a month ago I had friends over and he showed a great deal of aggression towards them, which was something I had never seen in him. He lives in a loving home with 3 kids, one of which is 2.5. He is wonderful with all of us. My toddler can do anything with him and he is so gentle. We also have 2 cats. He harasses them but does not try to hurt them. Just wants to sniff their bums, which irritates the heck out of them.

The bite occurred Sunday morning. He was outside on his lead for a morning pee while I made coffee. Next thing I know I hear ferocious barking coming from the front of the house. I ran out and witnessed him barking like crazy at a woman that was jogging by on the street. She started screaming and running around trying to get away from him. She fell down. As soon as I got down the driveway and yelled for him to come he did, and ran up and into the house. My wife walked her home while I stayed and gave a statement to the police along with providing vet papers and other details. His lead (250lb beast cable) failed due to fatigue at the clip.

The woman went to the hospital. Her injuries are a bite to the buttocks and a broken wrist. When she was running backwards from him she fell and landed hard on her wrist. We have reached out to them and offered to pay bills and help in any way we can. For now they are not ready to talk to us. My dog is quarantined in home for 10 days and right now the animal control officer is on vacation so I have no details as to what the next steps are. I know he will go for a vicious dog hearing as the town requires it. I also know at this point he will be terrible if brought into a room full of strangers.

Here’s some things I noticed about the attack. He had about 20 seconds with the woman before I was able to make it out the door and down the driveway. During that time he barked like crazy and got very close to her and bit once. With the way she was jumping around, I’m not even sure if the bite was intentional on his part. (Please realize, I’m not trying to dismiss the incident in any way, just trying to give you guys as much info as possible.) I also have not seen the pictures of the bite yet so I can’t say how bad it was. I do know there were no stitches required. When she fell backwards, he did not advance on her, just kept barking.

Right now, I’m not sure what the outcome will be. I don’t expect the town to force euthanasia but keeping him is not an option. My wife is steadfast and I can’t really blame her. The double jeopardy laws of RI are just too much of a risk. I have tried to contact the German Shepherd Rescue of New England and they can’t help until he is in a shelter and in dire need. I’m not even sure placing him is possible with a bite on his record. I have also reached out to the state police to see if they would be interested in evaluating him but have no info yet. My next call will be to Vom Winhaus Shepherds to see if they could do an eval once the 10 day quarantine is up.

My family is traumatized right now and I’m having trouble dealing with this emotionally. This is my fault and I will always have to live with that. This poor woman was sooo scared and I just can’t get the scene out of my mind. I love my boy and have been spending lots of time with him but none of that really matters now. What’s done is done. I guess I would like to hear anything you guys have that might help me place him or otherwise handle the situation.
 
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#27 ·
I do agree that the police muzzle is....more extreme? And yes, it's designed for muzzle fighting (proofing the dog off of suits/hidden sleeves etc) and is heavy (Teagan's clunked me with it in the eye while I was lying down).

I like it b/c it's so solid, but the OP may find it too much. If you live in a hot climate too you might want to think about that. I wanted to get Teagan a fighting muzzle b/c they are such solid, solid muzzles, and this is the most affordable one I could find.

Certainly, it is not the muzzle we use on runs/longer walks.

Edit to add I also think Chris' point that without seeing the dog, it's difficult to tell what's going on (especially given some posts doing just that). While I love forums, the internet really isn't the place to diagnose a dog. Experienced behaviouralists/trainers are the best route for that.
 
#28 ·
Originally Posted By: Winkin

Also, it doesn't sound like she acted like a "spaz." A big, unfamiliar dog was barking and or moving towards her. You better believe 99/100 people are going to run or try to get away. It's the only logical thing to do. Not everyone has friendly dogs.
Nonsense, she acted like a 'spaz' period. Any sensible dog person would know what NOT to do...she did all of it! Ever hear of stand still? I am sorry she got bitten but if she knew anything the situation would be much 'severe'...! It is not the logical thing to do, the logical thing is to stand still. Any 'logical' person would know that you can't outrun a dog and thus would stand still and cover his/her face. Friendly dogs have nothing to do with it...education however has.

To the poor owner of this dog, please do not act too fast. Think this through. There is no reason why you have to give this dog away. With proper training and socializing he will be more than fine. You can also take extra precautions so that something like this won't happen again. You are going to struggle to re-home him so the best thing for him and YOU to do is keep him and put some extra time into his training, etc. I don't think it is fair to put this dog down and that is what is going to happen if you try to re-home him because not a lot of people will take a dog with a 'bite record'. Again, think this through.
 
#30 ·
Originally Posted By: RavenSophi
Originally Posted By: Winkin

Also, it doesn't sound like she acted like a "spaz." A big, unfamiliar dog was barking and or moving towards her. You better believe 99/100 people are going to run or try to get away. It's the only logical thing to do. Not everyone has friendly dogs.
Nonsense, she acted like a 'spaz' period. Any sensible dog person would know what NOT to do...she did all of it! Ever hear of stand still? I am sorry she got bitten but if she knew anything the situation would be much 'severe'...! It is not the logical thing to do, the logical thing is to stand still. Any 'logical' person would know that you can't outrun a dog and thus would stand still and cover his/her face. Friendly dogs have nothing to do with it...education however has.
although this is getting off topic - i have to ask if you've been charged by an (as most in her situation would regard - aggressive) dog... remained calm... gotten bit... and continued to remain calm?

in this womans defense - i believe its more than fair to throw "logic" out the door. just as people can go thru countless self defense classes and still draw a blank in the moment of an attack. also in her defense - just as no one can accurately judge the dog without being there - i believe it is unfair to judge this woman based on the perception of the OP, who has also admitted to not witnessing the entire incident. "out run a dog" -- we're also assuming that she was trying to - again - without being present, how can anyone (aside of course from the OP) know that there wasnt a fence or truck or something else in the vicinity that she was hoping to making it to? the word "spaz" is subjective and not a part of everyones vocabulary...

lets just leave it be... continue to help and support the OP and wait to see how things pan out.

eta: as a "sensible dog person" there is no way i can speak now for what i'd do in a moment such as the one we're discussing. i know what i SHOULD do... what i'd LIKE to be able to do... and what MIGHT work, but fear can be more powerful than logic.
 
#31 ·
Yes, I've been charged by an 'aggressive' dog, once when i was 14 and another time when I was older. Even when I was 14 I knew I was supposed to stand still. The dog charged...barking, showing teeth...and even at 14 I knew to stand still. Yes, I wanted to run, but I KNEW not to. I don't think dogs can be charged for the stupidity of humans. They always get put down or re-homed because a human did something wrong. That is unfair. I think the woman needs to accept responsibility for the broken wrist at most! I mean why on earth would you run backwards?
 
#33 ·
Originally Posted By: RavenSophiYes, I've been charged by an 'aggressive' dog, once when i was 14 and another time when I was older. Even when I was 14 I knew I was supposed to stand still. The dog charged...barking, showing teeth...and even at 14 I knew to stand still. Yes, I wanted to run, but I KNEW not to. I don't think dogs can be charged for the stupidity of humans. They always get put down or re-homed because a human did something wrong. That is unfair. I think the woman needs to accept responsibility for the broken wrist at most! I mean why on earth would you run backwards?
With the greatest respect, this is ridiculous. The woman did absolutely nothing to bring about the situation, apart from going about her business on a public road!

You're obviously blessed with steady nerves; most people are not. Many people are terrified of large dogs and even "dog people" can be frightened by any dog charging them, let alone a GSD.

I don't believe aportioning blame anywhere in this situation does anyone any good, but to blame the jogger is again, ridiculous.
 
#36 ·
Originally Posted By: PeddersWith the greatest respect, this is ridiculous. The woman did absolutely nothing to bring about the situation, apart from going about her business on a public road!

You're obviously blessed with steady nerves; most people are not. Many people are terrified of large dogs and even "dog people" can be frightened by any dog charging them, let alone a GSD.

I don't believe aportioning blame anywhere in this situation does anyone any good, but to blame the jogger is again, ridiculous.
I'm not trying to place blame on a single person, be that the owner or jogger. I just think it is unfair to take away all 'responsibility' from the jogger. I'm just saying that if she/he listened or payed attention to normal behavior of dogs this might have been less severe. I also think the owner should take some responsibility for leaving the dog unsupervised but he already acknowledged so much.
 
#37 ·
Originally Posted By: RavenSophi
Originally Posted By: PeddersWith the greatest respect, this is ridiculous. The woman did absolutely nothing to bring about the situation, apart from going about her business on a public road!

You're obviously blessed with steady nerves; most people are not. Many people are terrified of large dogs and even "dog people" can be frightened by any dog charging them, let alone a GSD.

I don't believe aportioning blame anywhere in this situation does anyone any good, but to blame the jogger is again, ridiculous.
I'm not trying to place blame on a single person, be that the owner or jogger. I just think it is unfair to take away all 'responsibility' from the jogger. I'm just saying that if she/he listened or payed attention to normal behavior of dogs this might have been less severe. I also think the owner should take some responsibility for leaving the dog unsupervised but he already acknowledged so much.
Stop already! The jogger has NO responsibility for a dog charging and then biting her! It is solely our responsibility as the guardians of our dogs to keep them from situations like this. Our dogs lives depend on it.
 
#38 ·
Originally Posted By: RavenSophiI just think it is unfair to take away all 'responsibility' from the jogger. I'm just saying that if she/he listened or payed attention to normal behavior of dogs this might have been less severe.
its no ones responsibility to know how to react in this situation. nor is it required for people to be dog savvy. a barking/charging dog with a broken leash is also not normal.
 
#39 ·
I agree, it is our responsibility to keep our pets from situations like these but it is also a citizens responsibility to be educated. I would by no means take the blame away from Blake if he ever did something like this...I would however acknowledge the acts, wrong or right from the jogger.
 
#40 ·
I don't know, maybe it is different in SA but we're told from a young age how to act around an aggressive dog. We encountered a few on our way to school, so no, i can't understand people who don't follow 'rules' when it comes to that. And I DO expect someone to be 'dog savvy' when going for jogs in a neighborhood.
 
#41 ·
i understand what you're saying raven - i do, but at the same time, in your most recent reply... you say that YOU were told/taught from a young age, YOU can't understand how "rules" aren't followed (also noting that this isnt actually a rule) and YOU expect joggers to be dog savvy.


these are your individual opinions and personal values.

ETA: lets please respect the OP's request below me. my apologies Thors.
 
#42 ·
Please, no more back and forth. It just doesn't matter now. I need help moving forward, so to get this back on track:

Any recommendations for behaviorists near RI that haven't already been listed?

Any more recommendations on muzzles? ( I like the ones I saw, but more options and info is always better than less )
 
#43 ·
Thors, I am really sorry that you are going through this. You absolutely have to do what is best for your human family first. I hope that you can keep and work with this young dog that you obviously like.

Frankly, I dread this scenario worse than bloat or cancer.

There are a lot of people who know an awful lot about aggression in dogs and how to work with dogs that have bitten on this site. It is a great place for information. Stick around, you will find that there is excellent advice and some that is less good.

The jogger went through a terrifying and painful ordeal. Her initial response may be to throw the book at you. You did good to offer to pay her expenses and to apologize. It is possible that she will come around after she relaxes and heals a bit.

As bad as it was, your dog did not continue to bite the woman. I think that this is VERY good. Also, did you say that he came back to you? Most truly aggressive dogs get into a fight mode where they literally cannot be called off and must be dragged off. And your dog is young. He definitely sounds like a dog that is worth the effort to help.

Welcome to the site and good luck with your boy.
 
#44 ·
Originally Posted By: ZeusGSDI'm sorry, this sucks. It could have been a prey bite which followed the initial territorial fear response, who knows. You will not be able to place him anywhere with the bite incident, so your options are to either put him down or get control of him. Personally I would do everything in my power to avoid option #1, so lets focus on what can be done and how that applies to your liability right now...

1. Neuter him ASAP. It can bring down aggression in general. Not guaranteed to, but it's easy and shows you are very serious about this problem.

2. No more tie outs EVER, especially in the front of the house. It's an invitation to disaster leaving a dog that is territorial at all tied up in plain sight of pedestrians. Best option would be to fence your back yard or part of your yard to make a run if the back yard is too big to fence (you said you're in the country). 6' privacy is the best option if possible. Again, this shows you are serious about the situation.

3. Condition him to a muzzle. It sounds like you don't need it in the house or anything, but you will need to get him out for heavy socialization and you will need to be calm and in charge when you do. The muzzle will help you and your wife be calm and confident knowing that nobody can get bit.

4. Enlist the help of a trainer/behavioralist ASAP. Get him evaluated and into classes. Bounce trainers off of everyone here on the board, we can help you find someone that can help.

5. Your dog has lost all decision making authority. His only decision should be to look to you, or your family for guidance when assessing any new situation. It takes some conditioning and training to achieve, but it can be done and this should be the focus of any trainer along with socialization and teaching you to recognize his body language so you know when something will happen before it actually does. This means you control all interaction with visitors around the house - on leash.

You reacted properly when the incident happened, and if you follow through on the above nobody can say you did not react and take things seriously. Good luck.
John, I think I missed this in the barrrage of posts that came through, or I just skimmed it. I am going to follow this pretty much word for word. Thank you.

The fence in the backyard is gonna be tough. On a slightly off topic tangent, has anyone done a fence through thickly wooded terain and any idea how much it will cost per foot? I know I can't dig 2 inches without hitting a bolder, so I'm sure it's gonna cost me a fortune. I just finished clear cutting about a half acre so we could have more of a yard so I'm thinking of fencing at least that for now. It will wait until I get full details from animal control but thinking about it keeps my mind off other things for now.
 
#45 ·
Make it at least six feet tall. A fence is a wonderful tool and will be a great asset, but it is not a dog sitter. Dogs dig under and climb over fences. Some even jump over them. Six feet tall is standard for a GSD. If you go with privacy fencing it eliminates some issues, like fence fighting.

You do not need to fence in a huge area. 20 feet by 40 feet would be good. Of course the more area the better opportunity you will have to play with your dog, let him run, and train off-lead. It is nice if the back door opens into this area, so in the morning, you are not fumbling with a lead to take him to potty, etc.

Once the fence is complete, make it a point to ONLY take him out through the back. Make the front door completely off limits. If you train this so that the dog is solid in this, he will be much less likely to slip out in a moment of carelessness by a family member or a visitor.
 
#46 ·
I am sorry your dog went after this woman, but I have another thought, years ago I got a call at work that my German Shepherd had mauled a child in my back yard,where he was left out in a fenced yard. The neighbor child was 3. I raced home sick to my stomach to find the police in my driveway. I was shaking so bad I could barely get out when 2 officers climbed out. They said they wanted to meet the GS that mauled the child and left NO marks. Seems the child had crawled under a spot in the fence to play with the dog and was rolling around being licked when the mom saw what appeared to be the dog mauling him. She screamed and ran over with another neighbour pulled out the child and ran to the emergency room for his injuries, but he didn't have any, his cries were fear of their screams. The dog did nothing. Another neighbor had cleared the air when they called the police and told they saw the whole thing and the dog had done nothing. I had been called by the neighbor's husband who was the dad.

The reason I say this is there may not be a bite, the broken wrist and perhaps butt scrapes could be from her running, not that he should get away with this but your liability would be less.

And if you have an attached kennel why was he tied out? Chains/cables what ever are the worst and can trip up children and help make dogs more aggressive. Good luck, I hope my scenario is what yours becomes. Ask for photos of the "bite" and be sure it is a bite.
 
#48 ·
Yes, this is one that's been on my list of worrisome things, too.

Yes, the jogger did everything wrong. Screaming in fear does nothing to deter an animal. But people do "wrong" things sometimes. (Yes I have been charged by dogs - one GSD that would "get" me every other day as I walked to work - boy did I jump! Bet the dog loved it. I didn't. I cursed the dog's heritage.)

This story makes me very sad because it sounds so bad for the young exhuberant GSD who was just having a good time. And I'm betting that's exactly what it was - person running = chase. Person yelling = chase & bite.
 
#49 ·
You definately have your hands full and it is not going to be an easy decision. Please don't give up on your dog. He is young and I do understand your predicament. IMO others have given some great ideas- desensitizing, fencing, muzzling etc. Make it a point to check your equipment (leads, collars, tie-outs etc, ) regularly to prevent any opportunities. Make your wife and family part of the processes and training if she/they can, and that will make you all feel more in control of the situation and your lives. This is a terrible thing to have happen but it is also a good learning opportunity for all of us also. I'm glad it wasn't worse. Good luck with you decidion and I don't think your dog is aggressive, just an unfortunate set of circumstances.
 
#50 ·
Blaming the lady that was attacked is simply ridiculous. After all, the dog went after her and most people do not know how to respond when a straight, and large dog heads for them.

My dog has done this a few times, as I mentioned in a prior post, it is entirely my fault.

One post said a dog should not be blamed for the stupidy of humans. So if a jogger runs from a dog and gets bitten or sustains an injury, the same person seemed to strongly imply it is the Jogger's fault.

How silly. As for the OP, I tend to think that dog will be just fine.
 
#51 ·
I think John (ZeusGSD) gave the best advice. Like Sue said, it's telling that your dog bit once (doesn't sound like the bite was that severe?) knocked the woman over, but did not continue to bite. That's a good sign, if any good can come of this.

To me this sounds like a dog that needs more leadership and socialization and this was really a prey bite. I think that a dog that is truly aggressive will do some real damage when given the chance. I'm not saying this to make light of the situation or remove the responsibility, but it helps to understand what motivates the dog when they bite.

My own GSD, who came to me very fearful and skittish of people and strangers would have done this same thing to my own husband. One time we were out in the yard and I don't know what he was doing, pretending to play football or something but he quickly turned and ran and our own dog gave a quick growl, took off, and gave a nip at his heel. She didn't actually get him and he laughed it off but that was a wake-up call for me. My trainer/behaviorist believes it was prey motivated but also a dog that has fearful tendencies wants to stop the behavior. When I yelled for my husband to stop, my dog stopped and walked away like nothing happened, just like your dog didn't commence attacking the woman after she fell.
 
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