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Sit Means Sit training/collar

7K views 42 replies 19 participants last post by  Germanshepherdlove 
#1 ·
Just went and had a consult with them, it was pretty cool. Anyone ever done training with them?

You basically buy a package, which is pricey, but you get the collar with a life time guarantee and free classes for life.

They said they want you to wean the dog off the collar in 6 months. I felt it on my hand and it didn't hurt. It felt like the device they put on my shoulders at physical therapy.

Anyone have any thoughts on Sit Means Sit? I think I'm going to do it. The trainers seem awesome and their dogs on really good. They said that they will do payment plans, so that helps.

I have had no experience with any type of electronic collars before.
 
#2 ·
I had a friend (we are both military families) that when she bought her shock collars she made everyone of her family members put it on their neck to see what it felt like for the dog. Sorry if this is a little off your point, just reminded me when you said you tried it on your hand. I have no experience with them but I haven't had to either thankfully.
 
#6 ·
Yes. I used them. I would recommend them if anyone was insistent on e-collar training. It was a last resort for me. I tried to exhaust other options first. But it's an effective training tool as long as it's not abused. Meaning, do exactly what the trainer says. No exceptions. Ask questions.

It's an individual choice for the owner. Every dog is different. Yours may not even need this tool. I don't know, as I don't know your situation. I would not let others feelings persuade your decision as this topic gets very spirited on this board. You have to do what fits your situation.

As far as Sit Means Sit goes, my trainer was very good at teaching us and the dog. I have a very hard dog. Positive training did not have the desired effect. So we went with Sit Means Sit. I am also going to sign up for the lifetime sessions also. Just to make sure I have an outside view making sure I am not making mistakes. Only fair to the dog if your going to use this tool. I have seen no downsides to this method with my dog. But again, that is my dog. Just follow what the trainer says to the letter.

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#9 ·
Thank you for your feedback. I have a hard dog, and I have a ton of trouble getting his focus. The trainer said we would be using the collar like a tap on the shoulder to get his focus. I have been using positive methods for months. My dog can do all kinds of things, but he can't focus outside and around other dogs. No amount of treats or toys can get his focus. I want to be able to walk him with out him dragging me randomly or lunging toward people for pets. I also want him to be off of the leash. I have been working on this for months. He can be super off of the leash, but he will also run off and he knows I can't get to him then.

He said the tap on the collar should be associated with something positive like a treat or toy. That is just a tap to get their attention on you.

I just want to be able to have fun with my dog and not worry about him being naughty or not listening. I train with him every day and put so much work in. That being said,I don't want to be mean to him either.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Force meaning that they start with force (Ecollar). Whether they also give him treats doesn't matter.

The style I like is to not use force almost at all while you're teaching the dog what commands mean. Then, later, much later, when tons of work has been done and the dog knows what everything means and refuses to comply - force is used to show him that he must.

Since they're limited on time (few sessions) almost by definition that means they're going to be using force to teach.


It's all about your goals though. Not everyone wants to or can afford to wait months to teach a dog the basic stuff. So they might work for you


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#20 ·
Force meaning that they start with force (Ecollar). Whether they also give him treats doesn't matter.

The style I like is to not use force almost at all while you're teaching the dog what commands mean. Then, later, much later, when tons of work has been done and the dog knows what everything means and refuses to comply - force is used to show him that he must.



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You literally have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Stop spewing Ecollar "knowledge". Probably not a far stretch to say you've never even used one.

There are many ways to train a dog. I don't have any opinion on the company but if you want your dog to understand something in a clear and precise way, nothing gets that point across better than an Ecollar. Especially with a knowledgeable trainer to guide you. Ecollars are even more useful when you are training with distance. Training is about timing. You can do that better with an Ecollar than with a leash.

If you feel comfortable with the trainer than go for it. Don't let people on an Internet forum who's watched a bunch of YouTube videos sway your opinion.
 
#11 ·
I'm not saying ecollars are bad, but I think there are better options before you go to them.

You should never have your dog off leash until your recall is 100% proofed. He must never learn that not coming when called is an option available to him. You can buy training lines very cheaply. Never use your recall command unless you can back it up (ie. on a leash!) Call your dog and pop the leash. If your dog is already returning to you, it won't feel the pop, if not, it gets the correction. Have a total party when he comes to you, use high value treats or a toy as a reward.

Regarding the other dogs and distractions, this is something you need to build up to. My dog has a low threshold and can't cap her drives which makes doing any training in a non-sterile environment a real challenge.

Increase your distance to the distractions. Start from working in your home, to working in your backyard, to working on the sidewalk, then move to higher distraction areas, but increase your distance to the distractions and work closer as your dog gets better.
 
#15 ·
in your case you have failed to get his attention and train under his threshold before you exposed him to the stimulus that causes him to lose focus on you
so now you need a short cut to get that attention
go back to the basics of training because you missed a step
 
#18 ·
Yes, exactly.

This is what I'm trying to say OP, you progressed too quickly before you proofed at lower distractions with more control. It's not impossible to correct, but now you have the added challenge of having to undo his bad habits.

Ask me how I know, I'm working through some stuff with my dog too :)
 
#16 ·
I think it is hard to assess the method unless you have trained with them. And they are very hush hush about their techniques (Unlike folks like Lou Castle, and Michael Ellis). FWIW those I knew who used this method indicated the collar would be a full time tool......not weaning the dog off of it.

It is a franchise operation and the trainers are not necessarily experienced dog trainers in their own right.

I saw one dog trained with the method and it was obedient......but to me, I felt like it took something away...made the dog a bit robotic. JMO. One dog. No experience. I have seen plenty of dogs trained with ecollars and don't feel that way about the tool.

I am not sure hardness with a prong translates ot hardness with an ecollar. Some times VERY hard dogs can be very soft with the stim. You felt the stim. Was it at the highest level it will be applied to the dog?

What type of collar do they provide? Just curious. I have an old Dogtra on loan to a friend but would consider an Einstein if I were buying a new one.
 
#24 ·
Boomer, I wasn't talking about the Ecollar per se, I was talking about their methods. If they used a prong or anything else, i'd say the same thing. This way of teaching the dog is pure force training, that's what it's called (or something similar). You use force and the dog learns by turning it off. I've read about their training methods some place else.

I'm not going to argue with you. You with your 'recalls for love' is def the pro. Though if your dog listens to you because he loves you lolol then you don't know anything about the Ecollar either.


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#26 ·
I didn't say it was. I read all there is to read on leerburg, by the way.
The way the Ecollar or prong is used is what determines whether it's pure force or not.

If you use a prong to leash pressure the dog into a down - that's pure force. If you use treats to teach a dog the down and then pop him when he knows it and doesn't comply - that's not pure force.

I read about their methods. Also, the fact that they sell a package and then guarantee it for life means they're short on time. They have to achieve a lot within a few sessions. That almost guarantees they're pure force.


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#30 ·
In regards to the Sit Means Sit facility that was here locally.... I will not comment on their training techniques as I have never seen them... the facility itself was about a block from my work and I drove by it everyday twice sometimes more if I left for lunch. I was not impressed with the facility I saw, an old trailer dock warehouse with no shade or outdoor cooling area for the dogs I did see there and many times the same dogs were simply left outside to run on the concrete lot. The whole lot was fenced in however I felt bad for those pups out there in the direct sun and barking their heads off the whole time (which could be heard and seen from my work). Granted it may be just this particular location that seemed to be so reluctant about caring for them in the heat of the day (this was last summer which in Ohio was ridiculously hot!) I do not know but it definately left a bad taste in my mouth. The location has since shut down and I do not know if it was a relocation or not. None of this may be helpful in this decision process but I would want to hear the pros and cons of people's experiences before I placed my girls in their care... :)
 
#36 ·
I only know about the local franchise here in town. The man who runs it I met some time ago when my golden was a puppy and we had just discovered the Schutzhund clubs in town. The general feeling that I get from the community of dog trainers as a whole here is that he is not exactly a good trainer, and without the collar, the dog doesn't do what it does with it on. A friend of mine paid the 800 for the collar and classes. She said when it was on, and when they were training, her dog did perfect. But as soon as it was off, he didn't really care again.

The gist of what I got from the trainer I know is that the idea behind the collar is to use it like a clicker. Which makes me figure that they use the vibrating portion of that collar more than the shocking one. Again, that was what I got as an impression from the man that I know, so don't really count it as 100% fact.

Personally I wouldn't go with them. The money for the collar and the continued need for the collar don't seem worth the money, IMO. I have had to use the prong with my three current dogs at one point or another, but I have been able to wean them off the tool. That is what all these collars are. Tools. They should not be considered the begin all, end all of training. They are aids.

Only dog that I saw that he trained was a young GSD that a woman who really has no business in owning said GSD has. She was putting basket muzzles with socks in between around the puppy's face before she resorted to this. Everything I tried to tell her about training and living with a GSD was forgotten. I loved the look of her baby, even if I know the breeder wasn't a very good one in my region. Seeing her after the training, she looked depressed and almost forlorn. The dog also took up chasing and chewing on her tail, which states to me that the poor baby is understimulated.

So, end of the day, take it as you will, but my overall perception is not too highly of the franchise, and I have other trainers I personally know who I recommend to people around me.
 
#37 ·
Personally, I wont train with anyone who has only one tool in their box. If the only way they can train a dog is with the ecollar, i would look elsewhere. I would look elsewhere if they only trained with positive, only trained with prong, or choke. I want a trainewr that customizes training to the individual dog. Its not one size fits all.
 
#38 ·
They don't really only train with an e collar, they also use toys, treats, and praise. Also they stress that if you haven't weaned off of the collar in 6 months, you aren't doing your homework.

I've gotten some emails from this particular trainers clients, they really love him and have seen huge improvements with their dogs. Including off leash reliability.
 
#39 ·
I have never heard of SMS before this, but I do know there is better living with electricity.

There were nay sayers with the light bulb too.

There are savvy people who recognized all the many benefits of this tool and they capitalized on it.

This is great for people who have a problem dog and/or just feel like they have to be taught how to use it in other areas.

IMHO this tool is not a short cut to teaching the basics at any level, but I could be wrong.

But there is no doubt if your dog is trained, you can tweak/proof to near perfection with it.

There is nothing wrong with paying for an experts advice and experience if you feel the need.

I think a person who is capable and knowledgeable enough to train a dog in the first place can do well

with this tool without spending a lot of extra money & time. You also don't have to spend a lot of money

on the collar it's self. I paid $79.00 for my Pet Ed version and it has worked perfect for over 2 years.
 
#42 ·
I've used an E collar over the years, somewhat sparingly and mostly with Labs. My Dogtra collar goes up to level 60, my niece willingly has done up to level 19 on herself. I used level 10, the few times I used it besides the 'vibration' feature.

I've seen those that don't like them, but have no qualms about using a switch. It's also key to train the dog on what is expected 1st, it's for when they choose not to obey a known command.

I also think the owner/dog bond is of utmost importance, not that training can't take place without it. I wouldn't use an e collar for nickel & dime training, just about only for the 'big stuff'.

Another option is to just buy your own 'Sport Dog' 425 collar, school up, and push ahead yourself with the training. You can check the local library or buy books and videos on training.

I do agree, some depends on the dog. One usually wants more than one or 2 choices in the toolbox.
 
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