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Why does a breeders continue to breed sire that produces Dysplasia

7K views 63 replies 18 participants last post by  carmspack 
#1 ·
I'd like to know what other GSD owners and breeders recommend. We purchased two puppies from different litters from a GSD breeder in Corona, California. Both our puppies were diagnosed with bilateral elbow dysplasia and a few months later our male was also diagnosed with bilateral hip dysplasia.
The breeder's claimed they had never in 37 years had a dog with elbow dysplasia and wow we got two from different litters but the same sire. They said we were not eligible for a warranty refund for ED because we had surgery to treat the problem. Okay, but shouldn't the OFA rating of ED, and CT Scans, performed by Board Certified Radiologist be sufficient for them to confirm? We have been GSD owners and had lost our two 12 year olds and wanted healthy lines. What a mistake I made in choosing this breeder. I didn't realize that the sire was Fast Normal meant he is borderline by OFA standards. When our boy was diagnosed with HD we took him to be examined by their Vet. Their Vet recognized our Vet's that are excellent and said he agreed with the diagnosis. Yet the breeder wanted him xrayed but it wasn't done by PENN or OFA standards. Still the diagnosis was HD. But their vet said Mild. The breeder will not warranty their puppies unless it is MODERATE to SEVERE Hip Dysplasia. They said " not covered under our warranty. Specifically it will not affect the health of the dog." DO YOU AGREE? I find this awful and shocking. Shouldn't a good breeder care if they are producing puppies with dysplasia? Shouldn't they stop breeding that male? What would you recommend?
 
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#3 ·
IMO, and I do not know a ton about breeding, but if it is a passing score and it is an exceptional dog otherwise and being bred to a passing female, I don't see the problem.

ANY litter, statistically, has the chance of throwing pups with these issues. They are doing the best they can to set the dogs up for good health, and I can't say there is any way to blame this on the sire.
 
#4 ·
There is nothing wrong with a breeder requiring an official report by OFA or PennHip or a similar certifying organization rather than taking a vet's word for it. While some vets are very good at interpreting x-rays, many are not and see problems where none actually exist or vice versa. With something like OFA there is also no question as to the objectivity of the evaluators. So requiring an official report is pretty much standard practice amongst most breeders.

As for the warranty only covering moderate to severe HD, and not covering ED, I personally don't agree with that sort of warranty but if this is what is stipulated in the contract you signed and the breeder isn't violating the contract, then there really isn't anything you can do about that as you agreed to those terms.

Fast Normal does not necessarily equate to OFA borderline. I had a FN dog that was also OFA Good and there are many other examples. The systems are a bit apples and oranges so you can't draw direct parallels.

As for the diagnosis of Mild HD on your dog, it IS true that most dogs with Mild HD never experience problems. Especially if they are well managed with appropriate diet that includes joint supplements, appropriate exercise to keep muscles well formed and helping to support the joint, and not allowed to get overweight.

As for if the breeder should stop breeding the male or not, that we can't really determine from the information you've given. The OFA stats list something around 20% of GSDs as dysplastic based on x-rays submitted to them. The real percentage is probably higher as many dogs, especially those with x-rays that are obviously bad, aren't submitted. There is no bloodline of GSD that is completely free of dysplasia and if every dog who produced a dysplastic pup was eliminated from breeding there would be very few GSDs left to carry on the breed. There is one well known breeding program that focused extensively on eliminating HD and was for the most part successful, only to find they now had another genetic health disorder occurring at a much greater frequency than is the norm for the breed. As the saying goes, "breed one thing out and you breed another thing in". Breeders must find balance when it comes to temperament and health and work to reduce the incidence of all problems in those areas and can't over focus on any one thing. So with regard to this particular male, without knowing how he has produced overall and also the frequency of this problem (is it 1 or 2 problems out of a dozen or out of a hundred? Big difference there.) there is no way to say what the breeder should do with regard to continuing to breed him.
 
#5 ·
Chris, and other breeders, what is the line in regards to pulling from a program? 2 dysplastic pups in a litter? 2 in 2 consecutive litters?

It is my understanding that a male
/female match may genetically not jive. But same male same female bred to different pairs can be perfectly fine.

Where does the breeders responsibility lay in regards to informing prospective buyers? If a fantastic male/female pairing produced 3 out of 7 dysplastic dogs, and a breeder wanted to try a different match up, should they inform prospective owners? Just totally curious.

OP, sorry bout your situation. It sounds as if your breeder is following their contract. I always hope people would go above and beyond, and it's disappointing when I hear things like this. But technically, they are following their contract.


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#17 ·
Chris, and other breeders, what is the line in regards to pulling from a program? 2 dysplastic pups in a litter? 2 in 2 consecutive litters?

It is my understanding that a male
/female match may genetically not jive. But same male same female bred to different pairs can be perfectly fine.

Where does the breeders responsibility lay in regards to informing prospective buyers? If a fantastic male/female pairing produced 3 out of 7 dysplastic dogs, and a breeder wanted to try a different match up, should they inform prospective owners? Just totally curious.
It's not that simple. Are those 2 puppy litters or 12 puppy litters? Are the ones with HD mild, to where the diagnosis is radiographic only and won't impact quality of life or working ability, or more severe to where surgery is in order? What did the litters produce in terms of other equally or more important factors... temperament, drive, nerves, overall health? What were the hip genetics of the other parent? Did the female come from a pedigree full of a1s, low ZWs and known good hip producers indicating that the male was probably the majority at fault, or did the female come from a pedigree full of FNs and NZs and high ZWs indicating maybe she was a big portion of the problem and not the male?

From the standpoint of breeding for the "total dog", a 20% HD rate where all cases are mild and asymptomatic, temperament and nerve are exemplary and there are zero other health problems may be better for the breed than a 10% HD rate where the cases are severe, or temperament and nerve are faulty or there are other more problematic health issues present.

Yes, sometimes a certain pair won't click well but will do fine bred to different mates. We did 2 litters to an FN BSP winner who didn't have the best hip production record, though it wasn't horrible either. 3 out of 10 pups with HD, though all were mild and everything else about the litters in terms of temperament and health was fabulous. Same female bred twice to another male, also FN with a similar ZW, and this time got 0 HD out of 13 total. Most goods, a couple fairs but also an excellent. Even though on paper both males were pretty similar with regard to hip genetics, she produced better with one than the other when looking just at hips.

Interesting though, Female A from the first combo who had some siblings with mild HD herself produced ZERO HD in 4 litters. Whereas Female B from the second combo with all passing siblings produced a few case of HD in 2 litters, and 2 of those cases were worse than mild. So again reality came out differently than one would expect based just on pedigree and statistics. Female B was washed out of breeding after those 2 litters.
 
#6 ·
Yes (Hunter is great) our boy does have symptoms, of his hip dysplasia. It was diagnosed because I noticed he turns his hind feet outwards when walking. He can't track properly so the only way he can run is to bunny hop using both hind legs. He can't keep up with other dogs when trying to play. There have been incidents where he either pinches a nerve or something and screams in pain while holding his hind leg off the ground. We are hoping he a lucky one who can get by without surgery and won't do it unless he get where he can't walk and or it places him in too much pain. I agree with you Chris - it is important they are managed well. They both get an excellent diet and are a correct weight both have food allergy issues so they can't have join supplement so they are on Adequan (polysulfated glycosaminoglycan) injectable arthritis care for their joints. We plan to add swimming to our boy's exercise because he really can't run.

What we found out after our dogs were diagnosed is that there are several other owners with dysplastic puppies from this sire. I have been in touch with 4 others in addition to our 2. Sure the statistic probably make the breeder decide to keep him in the breeding program. If he sires 80 puppies a year and only 8 have dysplasia from those litters that doesn't hurt them because I haven't found anyone where they honored their warranty.
I was suggesting an official report from the OFA or similar should be valid but the breeder wouldn't accept it. They wanted us to wait on the arthroscopic surgery until their Vet returned in a couple weeks from vacation. Since our puppies had ununited anconeals with fragments you could feel crunching in their elbows it wasn't in their best interest. We have taken them to the very best animal hospital in the area VCA West Los Angeles. They are one of the largest private animal hospitals in the Country, they are also a teaching hospital. Both our dogs have both had stem cells injections processed by VET STEM after their ED surgery. The cells were collected laproscopically (from fat in their abdomen) and since we were in there they had prophylactic gastropexy for torsion. An elective choice since the surgery to collect the stem cells allowed it without adding much surgery time and having experienced two of our previous GSDs that required emergency surgery for Bloat/Torsion (Both survived thank GOD). The stem cells really helped the ED for now. We know they are at risk for arthritis. Our girl gets lame when she runs hard because she is missing the anconeals stabilize the joint in motion. Sadly hers were badly mangled from being smashed in the joint for months. The reason she would lift her front legs when sitting.

I recognize there is percentage of dysplasia from breeding good to good having read the OFA website numerous times, after the diagnosis. YET anyone would be concerned if they got two puppies from two different litters from the same breeder and sire (different dams) both having ED and the breeder claim is they never had any previously. We thought okay it could just be bad luck but sadly it was a flat out lie, because later I connected with another owner who got a puppy from the same sire a year before that was diagnosed with both bilateral ED and bilateral hip dysplasia. He needed the puppy to train for a replacement service dog for his elderly GSD. Same situation the breeder refused to honor the warranty claimed it didn't exist. I also spoke with owners of a littermate of our male also has hip dysplasia. They are a military family who can hardly afford the Vet bills. The breeder wasn't honoring their diagnosis expecting them to fly the dog back from the East Coast to California. Then this week I was contacted by a family whose 9 month old male was just diagnosed with Hip Dysplasia from the same sire. It just seems wrong if you have multiple puppies with ED and HD to continue to breed him. They have several males and around 15 females. Removing one male from their breeding program that produces dysplasia would seem appropriate.

As for us we've now spent about $25K on our two puppies in the diagnosis and treatment. From my perspective it's not right to continue to breed that male unless you want to warn the potential owners AND honor the warranty that is a small value against the overall cost for the life of the dysplastic dog.
 
#7 ·
Oh I guess I should have also clarified that the Breeder's contract (signed after we paid for the puppies, and paid to have them trained for a month at the breeder's facility) language that it must be MODERATE TO SEVERE is in direct conflict to the Health & Safety Code regulation for breeders in our State. The language in the State regulation says " if within one year after the purchaser has taken physical possession of the dog after the sale, a veterinarian licensed in this state states in writing that the dog has a
congenital or hereditary condition that adversely affects the health of the dog, or that requires, or is likely in the future to require, hospitalization or nonelective surgical procedures, the dog shall be considered unfit for sale, and the pet dealer shall provide the purchaser with any of the following remedies that the purchaser elects" ... Return the dog, Exchange the dog, or retain the dog and reimburse reasonable veterinary fees for diagnosis and treating the dog not to exceed 150% of price of dog plus sales tax.

Another thing I find odd is that the breeder marks the box of all puppies paperwork to the AKC that they cannot be bred or any offspring of theirs registered with the AKC. We did not plan to breed and would never consider it after their conditions were diagnosed but is that common?
 
#8 ·
Another thing I find odd is that the breeder marks the box of all puppies paperwork to the AKC that they cannot be bred or any offspring of theirs registered with the AKC. We did not plan to breed and would never consider it after their conditions were diagnosed but is that common?

A lot of reputable breeders only give limited registration until the dog is proven. It helps limit the number of people who just buy a puppy and start breeding. I personally have no issues with this.
 
#10 ·
If you want help managing the HD, search on this forum for other threads that discuss it. Supplements and low-impact exercise can help a lot.

My opinion is that with all of those problems, the least your breeder could do is refund the purchase price of your puppies, but I have no experience whatsoever with breeders.
 
#11 ·
My dog was diagnosed with Mild HD in one hip and my contract had similar clauses. The breeder did end up giving us half the purchase price back even though the contract only called for refund if it is worse than mild.

One thing I found interesting is he said "none of my litters have ever shown any dogs with this". Well he never talked to us again after the sale so I have to wonder how he would even know. The contract is only good until one year and if we didn't do x-rays we wouldn't have known. I bet the majority of the people who buy from him don't do the x-rays and don't even know within a year if they have it. So depending on the breeder they can say in XX years none of my dogs have had XYZ if they don't talk to any of the owners of the pups to know.

I also found it interesting that after my vet diagnosed it as HD I sent the x-rays to the breeder who's vet said it wasn't HD almost instantly. After a separate Otho surgeon and the OFA rated it mild HD then his vet said it had progressed so severely at an abnormal rate from six months to a year, implying it was something I did. Ironically this was looking at the same x-rays that they looked at before and said it was not a problem.

I'm sure different breeders are different but in my case it seemed like their vet was really biased towards the diagnosis that fit their client, the breeder. Also it is easy to say you have never seen an issue in your lines when you don't talk to anyone after the sale to know about any issues.
 
#12 ·
I'm having a bit of inner conflict over this as well. There are a lot of things that factor into whether or not a dog gets HD.

There were 3 pups in a litter of 8 that have HD, from my dog's litter (that I know of). The mother of the litter has had 3 litters and this was the only problematic one.

The breeder has already told me she will give me a new puppy if/when she breeds down the road, but I will probably not take her up on it. I definitely don't want a pup from the female she kept back from the same litter, but even if she got another breeding female, I don't necessarily want another GSD, or to have my next dog picked for me and at a time that suits her and not my schedule and a mating that I might not be interested in.

I'm hoping this was just a genetic combination of that mating that produced it, and not from the male (who has all health clearances, titles galore and a really super dog), because he's being bred like crazy this year, which I was a bit frustrated about giving that his first litter had so many dysplastic hips. The female is retired, so not a concern. I do hope that if his next litters show a high percentage of pups with HD, that she will do the right thing and stop breeding him.
 
#13 ·
If you are trying to raise awareness about the sire, submit the dogs' results via OFA and let them publish (or do likewise with the SV). Then in the future, someone looking into that sire will see those results of his progeny.
 
#14 ·
If you are trying to raise awareness about the sire, submit the dogs' results via OFA and let them publish (or do likewise with the SV). Then in the future, someone looking into that sire will see those results of his progeny.
Along those lines do you have to get the breeder's approval to put your dog on the pedigree database as progeny if the dog's sire/dam are listed there? After my dog was diagnosed I looked on there and all the progeny was listed as unknown for HD/ED.
 
#15 ·
Absolutely not, anyone can put any dog on the PDB.

The OFA and SV ZW databases are publicly searchable so anyone who wants to make things known about their dogs hips should definitely have them certified, passing or failing. Beyond that it's sort of hearsay and unfortunately many breeders are never going to volunteer unsatisfactory information about their dogs or what they've produced.
 
#19 ·
It's really easy to say when you aren't the one stuck with a high drive dog, who's now forced to live a sedentary life, or that the new owner has to spend thousands of dollars for surgery and rehab, and put their pet through all that pain. Getting the news about my dog's bad hips was devastating to me.

How many dysplastic pups does a dog need to leave in their wake before a breeder decides to stop breeding it.

Having a great temperament doesn't mean so much when you can't do anything with your dog.
 
#20 ·
Well, as I said before, if we eliminate from breeding every dog that produced HD or any other problem, the breed would be gone. There would be no dogs left to breed.

There are no guarantees when dealing with mother nature. Breeders can reduce the chances of problems but can't eliminate them entirely no more than all the medical science in the world can guarantee a healthy human baby. Breeders have to balance many factors.

The person who had a dog with epilepsy, or DM or EPI may well wish that their dog had had HD instead because at least HD IS fixable. The person with the nervy fear biter would probably wish the same as no amount of $$ and medical proceedures can cure poor temperament.
 
#21 ·
Right, but what about a dog who's producing a high percentage of HD??

Maybe the owners of stud dogs should pay a portion of the HD surgery (like the owners of the females have a guarantee, so they have more risk), and then they will be more cautious. There is literally no risk for the owner of the stud dog, and their dog is capable of producing many more offspring than the owners of the females.

I'm not talking about a dog who sired 2 dysplatic pups in 20 litters. I'm talking about a dog who almost half the pups in his first litter have terrible hips. I just hope if his next litters are as bad as his first, she will stop breeding him.
 
#22 ·
Just a quick question for the OP, do your pups with elbow dysphasia have a dog named Pakros on their pedigrees?
 
#23 · (Edited)
If one is super concerned about a specific stud dog and how he is producing hips then look at the ZW score. It is not a perfect indicator but if it's a priority for someone, get a puppy by a stud dog that has a low score and stack the deck in your favor.

I just don't like when someone gets all upset after the fact but didn't bother to check these things ahead of time if it's a big priority to them. Many studs are in the database, not all, but again if it's that big of a priority, focus your search/research on those stud dogs.

Temperament is a big priority to me when I get a dog so the last two dogs I've got as puppies I've met both the sire and dam of the puppy and spent some time with them. I'm not talking "temperament" like did they pass a BH or can they perform on the field in training or trial, but my very first impression of the dog as I approach, being a stranger, and observing how the dog interacts with a stranger, with the owner, and with other dogs. What is MY impression of the temperament and not the scorebook? Because as much as I love training and competing with my dogs, they are pets 95% of the time. I wouldn't say temperament is my #1 priority but then buy a dog sight unseen overseas and expect the breeder to reimburse me because the dog hackles and growls at every little shadow.
 
#24 ·
I just don't like when someone gets all upset after the fact but didn't bother to check these things ahead of time if it's a big priority to them. Many studs are in the database, not all, but again if it's that big of a priority, focus your search/research on those stud dogs.
First time GSD owner's don't know about these things. I've been on this forum a while and that's the first time I'd heard about that. You don't know what you don't know.

Also, this was the stud dog's first breeding in my case (which I will never do again), so there was no way to predict that. I thought I did things right by making sure parents had the health clearances.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming the stud dog for the problem, it was his first breeding. I just hope the owner will be keeping tabs on whether or not this is a common problem with his pups and if it is, hopefully do the right thing.

I honestly don't think I'll get another GSD after this, unfortunately. Saying 20% of pups being dysplastic isn't that bad just doesn't sit all that well with me. If that's an acceptable number, I don't think I'll want to risk it again. I know it can happen in any breeds, it just seems like it's much more rampant in GSD's than I even thought, and I did a fair bit of reading before I got my dog.

Live and learn I guess. It's been a hard lesson for me.
 
#25 ·
First timers don't know anything but I don't buy that if something is that important, they won't figure it out. I knew about that stuff when I got my first dog/GSD. It took me a while to find a dog that fit my criteria and ended up being different than what I thought I wanted (just based on looks and no experience I thought I wanted a large, substantial, dark colored male dog of DDR type and I got a small, lighter bone, light sable female dog mostly west German working lines with a bit of DDR). In a perfect world all stud owners are careful about what breedings they allow and take the time to evaluate them after the fact but buyers need to also think ahead too and put in the careful research up front if it is truly a priority.
 
#26 · (Edited)
That's not fair. I did a ton of homework before I got my dog, over a year before I put a deposit down. I looked up all the health tests that a good breeder should do and I made sure those things were done, and I guess I naively thought, that if both parents had passing hips that I was going to be ok.

If 1 in 5 having HD is acceptable to GSD breeders, it's not a breed I will own again. What is the point of doing health checks if the offspring produced are unhealthy and you just ignore it and keep breeding them?

Even on this forum, there's a lot of information on what questions to ask breeders, how to avoid irresponsible breeders etc. I didn't see anything explaining about ZW scores or how to look for things like that. I know pleading ignorance isn't a good defense, but honestly, how is a first time owner supposed to know that something like that exists? If someone told me to check out a ZW score, I would have thought it was a title or something, nobody here that I've seen has a thread about ZW scores and how to navigate that kind of thing.
 
#28 ·
If 1 in 5 having HD is acceptable to GSD breeders, it's not a breed I will own again.
I did not say that 20% is acceptable to breeders. I said that is what the OFA statistics have run, within a percentage point or two up and down, every year for decades.

Breeders are definitely shooting to do better than that, and most good ones are. There is no breeder who wants to produce dogs with HD or doesn't care about it. There is no breeder who doesn't want to avoid suffering dogs, upset and disappointed customers, having to wash dogs out of their program, or having to pay refunds.

But breeders must NOT overly focus on any one trait, be it HD or anything else, so between that and the fact that it is a polygenic disorder (which may or may not have environmental factors as well depending on which research you believe) it is not going to be eliminated and if you're going to get a GSD you're going to risk possibly getting HD. If you want an absolute guarantee then buy an older dog who's already been x-rayed. Especially if it's a Rottie or Golden or any of the other 39 breeds which have worse percentages of HD than GSDs do.

The upside is that of that roughly 20% with HD the statistics also show that the majority are mild, and thus unlikely to have symptoms or need any extreme levels of care, and the moderates and severes who do experience problems tend to be in the minority. So from a "real life" standpoint rather than a radiographic standpoint there are fewer than 20% that are actually affected.
 
#27 ·
I'm not talking about you personally, I don't know your experience (I didn't carefully read each post in this thread). Sometimes problems are unavoidable no matter how much research. HD is polygenic so unfortunately just going by the scores of the parents is an incomplete picture. The ZW is not perfect either but a dog's score takes into account that of his progeny and other relatives so it's a bit bigger picture than an individual OFA or a-stamp. Only a dog with an a-stamp will have a ZW score (though a puppy from two parents with ZW scores will start with a score that is the average of the two). The database is updated quarterly.

ZW scores (if anyone else wants to check). You can search the name of the dog (Hund), the name of the kennel (Zwinger), or the actual SV registration number:
https://www.schaeferhunde.de/site/rasse/zucht-aufzucht/bekaempfung-von-hded/zuchtwert/
 
#29 · (Edited)
Chris, that makes sense and I understand what you're saying. I guess my fear is that some people are going to use an OFA excellent hip score to keep breeding, regardless of how the offspring turn out.

It's too bad the GSD breed associations don't manage breeding GSD's more like the warmblood breeders, particularly the Dutch Warmbloods (horses), which is highly successful at producing healthy, sound athletes because it is so structured.

Young breeding stallions have to be evaluated by judges before they are issued a *temporary* breeding license, if they think they are showing good potential and xray clean. If they produce a certain number of offspring by a certain time frame and the judges are happy with the results, they can go on to do their 70 day testing (which involves going to a training center and being evaluated by test riders periodically throughout the 70 days. So they have a full picture of the horse's character) and if successful, are given full breeding approval. If the judges are unhappy with the offspring or they don't produce enough foals and have them inspected in the timeframe they are given, they lose their temporary license and any offspring produced beyond that point will not be registered.

They also judge their conformation, most things have a scale of 1-10. So lets say you have a horse with a long back. A score of 1 is very short, a score of 10 is very long. Maybe they give your horse a 7. This isn't a bad thing necessarily (ideally you want to keep those numbers as close to 5 as possible), but it helps mare owners when trying to pick a mate for their horse. If they have a long backed mare, they will want to use a stallion who is closer to 5 or maybe under to make sure they don't breed a long backed horse to another long backed horse. Of course if the overall conformation is horrible, they will not be issued even a temporary breeding license.

I don't know if something like that would work for dogs, but I don't see why not. Sometimes this system means that a nice animal might not be accepted as a breeding animal which is a shame, but overall, the system is highly successful.

Mares also go through a performance test, although it's just one day, as they only produce one foal a year (sometimes a few more, if the breeder does embryo transfer).

I always wonder if something like that could work for dogs, but I don't think anyone will want to do that.
 
#31 ·
There IS something like that for GSDs. It's the SV breeding system in Germany. Unfortunately as with many things, while it worked for a while eventually greed and corruption took over and rather than ensure dogs measured up to the standards for breeding the standards were lowered/ignored/cheated so that dogs that maybe shouldn't be bred are bred.

In the US there will never be such a system. The breed clubs certainly aren't interested in adopting anything like that and never will be, and the American culture, unlike in Europe, is to greatly resist anyone telling us what we can and cannot do. Considering such systems break down over time, it might not have much value anyway even if it were possible here.
 
#33 ·
There IS something like that for GSDs. It's the SV breeding system in Germany. Unfortunately as with many things, while it worked for a while eventually greed and corruption took over and rather than ensure dogs measured up to the standards for breeding the standards were lowered/ignored/cheated so that dogs that maybe shouldn't be bred are bred.

In the US there will never be such a system. The breed clubs certainly aren't interested in adopting anything like that and never will be, and the American culture, unlike in Europe, is to greatly resist anyone telling us what we can and cannot do. Considering such systems break down over time, it might not have much value anyway even if it were possible here.
I know, that's the problem, which is unfortunate. I wouldn't say the system is breaking down with the horses, actually it's extremely successful and gets better and better. The KWPN has one of the best breeding programs I've ever seen.

I didn't realize the SV issued temporary breeding licenses which could be revoked (then offspring would not be able to be registered) and independent training/evaluation over an extended period of time.

I know they are evaluated, but I don't think it's as extensively.
 
#32 ·
Carmen I have a dog like that. He's a very large mutt with sort of odd rear leg conformation so I x-rayed him at age 4 to see if anything was going on. He's definitely not dysplastic, but based on the shape of the joints, it's possible that over time he will develop arthritis in his hips. Luckily he's a very lazy dog with no drive for sports or serious training so we really do not foresee joint problems being a big deal for him.
 
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