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Vaccines thoughts

2K views 19 replies 11 participants last post by  misslesleedavis1 
#1 ·
So, last night i got a pretty severe earful from a person about getting my dogs vaccinated. My dogs are UTD on everything and she was pretty hard core anti vaccinating them, her reason being that "dogs live off the land, and vaccines are not needed in their natural state", my argument against this was, rabies, parvo, distemper exists, and i would like to prevent it from happening to my dogs..i have never known a person to never have their dogs vaccinated, is it common? did i miss out on something when it comes to my dogs living off the land lol? For the record, i wont be letting my dogs go without vaccines i am just curious as to what everyones thoughts are, and if their is any benefits in what this woman does with her animals.
 
#2 ·
My thoughts are, whatever works for you- go with that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and beliefs, and I think people should go with whatever their gut tells them after research. Some people (i.e. that woman) seem to think that they can change other people's minds by making them feel bad. Personally, I follow minimum vaccine protocol... I do the standard puppy vaccines and vaccinate to a year, but after that I do titers for my vaccines (except for rabies, which is required by law). I do vaccinate against Lepto because it is extremely prevalent in my area. It's really something to determine based on what your dog does, where he goes (day care? Large training facilities? Lots of hiking?), and what you're comfortable with.
 
#3 ·
I've never had an issue with parasites, and don't 'treat' anything other than freezing like Nancy posted.
Not sure I'd want to feed anything that has been brined like that.
All of my meat gets vaccumed sealed and frozen. And I'm sure that kills the parasites alone. But I'm still super paranoid. Ever since them two cases came into where I was working I've just been on the fence about it. I don't feel anyone is in the wrong for raw feeding. A lot of people do it with never having any problems. After

I vaccinate my animals. Its just like vaccinating yourself to prevent stuff. Some people just like to find ways to look better then other people. They don't vaccinate great for them. You do. It works for you. Your dog is domestic. Not wild and by some state laws have to have certain shots. If it works for you great
I'll never not vaccinate my dog.

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#4 · (Edited)
For rabies, the law requires. You put off the 1st puppy shot as long as you can, That one needs to be boostered then as law requires. You will be in a lot of hurt if you do not. Everyone makes their own mind up on the rest but realize what you do/don't give will impact your access to training classes, boarding kennels, etc. FWIW, death by disease is not a stranger to wild animals. While dogs are protected by distemper from "herd immunity" in the dog population, those pesky racoons are still out there getting it and shedding it.

Personally, I have given the core vaccines and boostered after 1 year the standard distemper, parvo, hepatitis then had titers drawn last year on the parvo and distemper. Going forward I will probably just draw parvo tempers as that is the one, I think, that lasts the shortest. No plans to do more. I did make sure to separate out so Rabies was given all by itself as it is the one more likely to have a reaction.

Leptospirosis - controversial. I can't answer for you. I have not done and hope not to regret. If you do give it, it does not cover all strains of disease and must be given every year. The viral vaccines appear to have at least 7 year, if not life, immunity. Lepto is a bacteria.

Google AAHA vaccine guidelines and also Google Dr Dodds and that may be give you a point for developing your own viewpoints.
 
#6 ·
her reason being that "dogs live off the land, and vaccines are not needed in their natural state",
Wow. I can't think of many worse arguments.
I'd counter that with: "what is the average life expectancy of a dog in a natural state?"

I'd answer it with:
If these natural dogs don't die of sheer starvation, diseases such as parvovirus, heartworm, or intestinal parasites usually kill them. Their average life span is one to two years per National Geographic.


I think we do over vaccinate. Texas A&M had studies that showed that for vaccines like rabies, the vaccine is active for long after the year mark. Scientifically speaking, there is some justification for ditching annual some vaccines. Throw in heath conditions - like Degenerative Myelopathy that may have an auto-immune component, over vaccination can be a bad thing.
 
#7 ·
Leptospirosis is a vaccine myself and my fiance debated about getting. We did in the end because our dogs go off roading alot and they love to find the most gross swamp they can and bask in it. I agree that its each individuals choice on what they do. If i had to choose one vaccine i could not live without for my dog, it would be rabies!!
 
#10 ·
As long as one makes an informed decision based on THEIR locale, the health and history of their animals, and where the animals go, I don't care if one person's "protocol" is the same as mine. In fact I don't know any person that uses the exact same protocol that I do, but all of our dogs are healthy and we each have different considerations.

Right now I do three puppy shots. Typically the first is given by the breeder so it's their choice when to start the series. The other two are given 3-4 weeks apart by my vet and I let them use whatever combo they feel is best. At 6 months we do rabies. One year later, we do another rabies and a distemper/parvo. Then just rabies and distemper/parvo every 3 years until the dog is a senior and no longer out of the house other than our own yard and leash walks. I also have to license my dogs with the county, paying double for the intact ones. I do not do bordetella vaccines.
 
#11 ·
I do 2 sets of puppy shots, a one year booster and then rabies (only) every 3 years until they are a senior. At that point I titer (for rabies only). I do not vaccinate for lepto or lyme's because there are still a lot of problems with the lepto vaccine and it doesn't cover many of the infectious strains. However, I know the symptoms of lepto and will rush Rafi to the vet should he exhibit any of those symptoms.
 
#14 ·
The reason that woman can get away with not vaccinating her dogs, is because most of the general population does. This keeps the spead of disease down.

I DO NOT vaccinate annually(Nothing after puppy series), and only give rabies as needed for travel (not requried by law where I reside). I follow an extremely minimal vaccine protocol - which I began once I had done all my research and developed a plan I am comfortable with.

I would ignore anyoe fear mongering on either side of the fence, they are usually the ones who have done the least amount of research, so try to use fear to sway you I prefer when people show you actual facts, papers, science etc. and allowing you to choose from there. I think its great others want to share what they have learned and think it may help you - but it shouldn't be forced on you.
 
#16 · (Edited)
Just to be clear. There are about 8 servovars of letpo of over 200 out there that infect dogs. 4 of these are in one group of vaccines and only 2 in another group. Typically the combo vaccines DHLPP only have 2 servovars and are the least effective. If you intend to give a lepto vaccine, ask for a 4 way shot. There were issues with vaccine reactions that are largely resolved nowadays compared to earlier versions of the vaccine, but it does become an annual commitment.

Emergent brasislava is in none of them, and efficacy I think against pomona is questionable. I have seen way too many vets only give one lepto vaccine then say see you next year. To immunize the dog it needs to be done two shots, about 4 weeks apart - then annually. Lepto tends to peak early fall.

Challenge studies are very sketchy on all the vaccines. I think Merial is the strongest, the only one with any data to back up a year claim on one of the servovars, the only one documented to prevent shedding, and has no adjuvant but I can't find a vet who gives that one locally and cannot buy it so.. I don't know..The most popular vaccine challenged pups with one of the 4 servovars one month after the vaccine so right at peak immunity. I have a paper copy of the Pfizer study, read it, and was completely unimpressed. I do not have the Merial study; just an abstract.

So, the point is....Lepto Vaccine may reduce the likelihood the dog gets leptospirosis. It is absolutely no guarantee. I have still struggled with it and have not given despite the fact my dog is in the woods a lot but still not sure whether or not I made the right decision.

EDIT-I am not really comfortable with the Dogs Naturally article. These are killed bacteria, Merial is recombinant. [killed bacteria usually need adjuvant, recombinant not-the vaccine reactions are usually the source of reactions to vaccines but are needed to get the body to mount an immune response] so about it causing lepto, I am not sure I buy that one.
 
#17 ·
Just to be clear. There are about 8 servovars of letpo of over 200 out there that infect dogs. 4 of these are in one group of vaccines and only 2 in another group. Typically the combo vaccines DHLPP only have 2 servovars and are the least effective. If you intend to give a lepto vaccine, ask for a 4 way shot. There were issues with vaccine reactions that are largely resolved nowadays compared to earlier versions of the vaccine, but it does become an annual commitment.

Emergent brasislava is in none of them, and efficacy I think against pomona is questionable. I have seen way too many vets only give one lepto vaccine then say see you next year. To immunize the dog it needs to be done two shots, about 4 weeks apart - then annually. Lepto tends to peak early fall.

Challenge studies are very sketchy on all the vaccines. I think Merck is the strongest, the only one with any data to back up a year claim on one of the servovars, the only one documented to prevent shedding, and has no adjuvant but I can't find a vet who gives that one locally and cannot buy it so.. I don't know..The most popular vaccine challenged pups with one of the 4 servovars one month after the vaccine so right at peak immunity. I have a paper copy of the Pfizer study, read it, and was completely unimpressed. I do not have the Merck study; just an abstract.

So, the point is....Lepto Vaccine may reduce the likelihood the dog gets leptospirosis. It is absolutely no guarantee. I have still struggled with it and have not given despite the fact my dog is in the woods a lot but still not sure whether or not I made the right decision.

Can i borrow you next time i have to go to the vets with my doggies please????? :)
 
#18 ·
We had a good long discussion on lepto this spring..

The other thing not here is the hepatitis has re-emerged in NE (Maine/New Hampshire) and along Mexican border. Dodds protocol only does distemper and parvo. I did feel safer that my dog had the regular puppy vaccine containing DHPP though I understand immunity to hepatitis is pretty strong after a boostered initial vaccination. [no titer for it at the vet]

This is the lepto discussion. Sometimes it is easier not to think to hard :(


http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/261418-leptospirosis.html
 
#19 ·
I give mine a full regimen annually. But then I work in a shelter and I am exposed to unvaccinated dogs every day and no matter how hard I try to clean up, I know that I take all kinds of germs home. Better safe than sorry, IMO. But I also feel that each person should have the opportunity to decide for themselves.
 
#20 ·
The lady also mentioned a boarding facility around my area that was run by a person who advised against vaccines and allowed multiple dogs in the facility that had no vaccines.
This could be false info and that is why i did not include it in my initial thread, if it is not hear say and is factual this type of place would worry me IMO, i would like to find out if it is true or not.
 
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