German Shepherds Forum banner

How can I tell the difference b/w muscle strain/pull vs. hip/joint problems?

8K views 33 replies 13 participants last post by  puffswami 
#1 ·
Dear Forum,

My 9 y.o. GSD seems to have some issues where he yelps when getting up. I think he may have suffered some injury to his left hind leg while chasing his ball the other day. I usually go to big empty parking lot and throw his ball so he really can wear himself out.

Now, a couple of days later, he seems listless. I have given him some buffered aspirin (325mg 2x per day) today but something is wrong. I have an appointment tentatively scheduled for next week. So far:

1. He doesn't put full weight on the left rear-leg. However, he doesn't shift his leg to the a sideways position indicative of an ACL tear.

2. Appetite is fine.

3. I can move his leg well without yelping however when I squeeze his thigh muscle by his body he yelps.

4. I tried the ACL joint drawer test and feel no movement whatsoever, which is good.

He is normally a very vivacious dog, what is worrisome though is that now he has a far-away look in his eyes. How can I tell the difference between hip vs. muscle strain?

I have looked on many many sites and am having a hard time differentiating between the two. A really good site I found that I can share that gives straightforward advice on pets: ACC

Any advice specific to GSDs would be very much appreciated.

Best.
 
See less See more
#5 ·
Thank you for your kind advice. In the past I have rushed to the veterinarian too quickly and basically told nothing is wrong so I am kind of hesitant to do it again and again.

Here is good video that I used to evaluate my GSD. Same exact diagnosis, no yelping until up by his hip muscle. One thing I know for sure is ABSOLUTELY no more hard-fetching on pavement. Kal loves it but no more.

 
#7 ·
Here is good video that I used to evaluate my GSD. Same exact diagnosis, no yelping until up by his hip muscle. One thing I know for sure is ABSOLUTELY no more hard-fetching on pavement. Kal loves it but no more.
My dog totally blew out his right ACL. Other than the slight yelp when it happened he had exams from three different vets and never yelped or looked to be in discomfort.

If they can't tell whats wrong by the exam or need more info they will do x-rays and they usually give anti-inflammatory meds.

I spent much of 2013 at my vet and various specialty vets. I'm hoping for a calmer 2014.
 
#8 ·
YOU have no business doing a drawer test. You have no idea what you are feeling for and can do more harm than good.

It could be an ACL, coudl be a pulled groin muscle, could be bad hips. Could be many things.

Keep him on crate rest and call the vet tomorrow.
 
#9 ·
I'm with BowWow. Strict exercise restriction (no running, jumping, playing, keep confined inside, leash walks only outside to eliminate), get an appointment with your vet to be seen. The listlessness along with aspirin makes me concerned. Not to mention that dose. There's much better anti-inflammatories out there. We use aspirin when dealing with IMHA dogs, not when dealing with pain. And it irks me that that guy literally has a dose for a medication listed on his site. -.-

If you wait a few days and he still is painful, then going in isn't rushing into it. Plus the better medications for pain thing. I may be more of the worry wort kind myself with my dogs (I also work for a slew of vets so it makes it easy for any pet to be checked of mine) but often it's much better safe than sorry. Could even be a little of both issues, especially if you've never really had the hips checked out. At 9, no matter how good your bone structure was to start, you likely have arthritis going on. Wear and tear is always wear and tear.
 
#10 ·
Go get Traumeel homeopathic (in drops), dose 10 drops inside pocket of his mouth, do this every hr. at least 4 or 5x. (away from food and water)...then dose before bed and again 4x next day (spaced out, example...am before walk or 1/2 after food, then again few hrs later, evening then bed.)...try this up until vet app. If it's going to work it will, and if it doesn't no harm done
 
#13 ·
Everything can do something it's not supposed to do when ingested - I don't know if your dog has any clotting or bleeding issues so please read side effects of all medications and supplements before starting them.

GSDs have spinal issues - so check that as well. Have a vet check it, not you specifically.
 
#14 ·
UPDATE:

As of today a lot of the problems have gone away. Gave him buffered aspirin last night and he has slept for a long time. No activity the past few days, but today he was anxious to go out after I came home from work.

Took him to a park where I carefully watched every step off his left-hind leg. No yelping no awkward gait no nothing. Gonna give him a hot shower and massage but he doesn't seem to yelp at pressure on his hip muscle either. Have a Vet appointment scheduled for Wednesday but hopefully I won't need it.
 
#15 ·
The aspirin was a potential problem but you decided to give it again? :confused: If he has an injury you have got to rest him and let it heal or your dog will have a problem FOREVER. The dog across the street blew her ACL. They opted for conservative treatment but didn't do it and she now has a terrible, permanent limp (at 6 years old).

Short leashed walks for bathroom business and that's it. I'm not sure why you're asking for advice and then not interested in taking it?
 
#18 ·
I checked a number of sites before giving him aspirin, most said anywhere from 5mg to 15mg per lbs. is adequate. In fact, Rimadyl is what many dogs seem to be sensitive to. I specifically went to buy him BUFFERED ASPIRIN as well. So far today, no yelps or trouble getting up today. Do I think he magically healed in one day? Of course not! I am going to let him heal at least for a week. Probably no more ball-fetching until Spring (and then only on grass not pavement that he really loves because of the speed of the ball).

The problem with Vets is that unless a problem is obvious a lot of them don't diagnose adequately. This has to do with the actual time spent with them which is like 10 minutes per visit. And then the test after test. You go in thinking it will be around $50 and walk out 1/2 hour later having spent $250 with no positive changes.

Vets are a business. It is very hard for people to accept that but vets are a business no matter how much they act like they like your dog/cat/snake. Not unlike any other business. And one of the reasons healthcare is so expensive in the U.S. is because it is one of the rare times wherein the consumer has NO BARGAINING POWER! I recently needed to buy a rash cream and the concentrations were 1%, 2.5%, and 5.0%. Well the first two were $8 and 40$ respectively, you know how much the 5.0% concentration was???......$250! I asked the pharmacist why this price hike and he casually said "oh, the first two are paid out-of-pocket usually, the 5% is the one that health insurance pays for."

I don't understand why someone would even type "go to the vet" as a reply? I assume that is the first thought that springs to anyone's mind so there is no need to even mention it (unless this forum is owned by a Veterinary Association (which seems like a good business model - own all the breed domains, refer selves, profit!). I am not looking for home remedies (although appreciated) but rather similar circumstances/symptoms/diagnoses/treatment. At least then I will be informed when going to the vet about what the crowd thinks.

 
#16 ·
you should probably have him checked out anyway.

I have had gsd's who needed knee surgeries, one was so stoic you wouldn't know something serious was wrong, because she had such a high pain threshold:(

Another thought, my aussie popped her hip out of the socket last year, she didn't utter a sound, she crashed into my kitchen center island, anyway, she was at first, off the leg , then began putting pressure on it, (this was all in the same day had a late vet appt)...I thought she blew her acl, but nope popped her hip out..

So it could be ANYTHING< or it could be nothing, at 9 years of age, I would err on the side of caution and have an xray done just to get an idea if anything is going on.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Puffswami, consider shopping around for different vet, to find someone you can trust.

I've been to vets like the one you describe, and been unhappy. I know that experience of paying hundreds of dollars to stumble around with tests that are mere guess, and being no closer to a healthier dog. It's horrible. I eventually changed vets -- it took me about a year after moving to a new city to find one who I fully trust. I finally have one who is feels like my partner in keeping my dogs healthy. Granted, we spent a lot of money on a lot of senior issues, so we got to know each other well ... and my dogs board there ... and go to play care sometimes there. I never feel taken advantage of like I have at other vet practices though. He doesn't spend 10 minutes per visit -- it's often more like 30, sitting down on the floor with my dog, getting it to relax and talking with me about anything relevant to the issue. Sometimes if he's doing an ortho exam, he'll keep the dog for the day, and take it out for a walk, or have a tech walk it up and down some stairs while he watches it move, keep it on a blanket in the back to let it nap and then watch how it gets up to see if there's any difficult. At least, that's what he did for my senior when the hip issues started. And, yes, he took x-rays too--but he wanted to see the dog moving in addition to the x-ray image. The cost for all that time during his day was the usual exam fee, plus x-rays--nothing extra. You've just got to find someone who likes to practice at a slower pace.

My current vet has stayed after hours for me (at no extra charge), consults by phone or email over small issues (never sends me a bill for that), came to my house once in an emergency (no extra charge...and I live 3 minutes from the clinic), and works through most cost effective (and beneficial) options, thinking through pros and cons. He'll write scripts for to be filled at the human pharmacy to save me money.

My advice is to reach out to your local rescues and ask them who the vet is that they use. They will almost certainly know someone who is both a great vet and effective at containing costs--and they'll love to be able to refer people to him or her. That's how I found mine--the rescue people knew he was a star!

As for the pharmaceutical example you gave, go to GoodRX.com -- it will let you price check the cost of almost any RX around all the pharmacies in your zip code, and the price differences are astounding. That $250 item you described could well cost $50 down the street in one direction, and $1000 for the same medicine a few blocks over in the other direction! There's NO consistency in pharmaceutical pricing--it's crazy how much it varies, even among the big chains (Walmart is NOT always the cheapest -- and neither is Costco; you really have to price check every time).
 
#20 ·
@Magwart

Nice to know someone else here is on the same page! I should move to where you are due to your great & thorough vet!

The more I think about my dog's limp the more it seems like it had to do with the cold spell last week. I took him out to get some exercise after several days of none and he immediately grabbed his ball from my car wanting me to throw it. I parked in a large empty parking lot and threw the ball in a non-icy area (however he may have hit an icy spot regardless). He is a very agile dog as he is a working-line GSD and really took after the ball. It was so cold though that I only threw the ball three fetches and then we came home....then the limping problems started the next morning. Two things I learned:

1. No more running on pavement - just too much of a risk all-around
2. Give him adequate time to warm-up - I usually walk a while with both my dogs and then play fetch.

I still may go to the vet to check for hip/joint/musculature problems however I hate to go when I am anxious about the outcome. I watch him constantly as my pets are always in the same room as me and he seems fine as of now.

Thanks for your prescription advice. Did you know that the average cost of a medical procedure for humans varies by 8X in most major cities? How would you like to wake-up in the ER and be at the most expensive hospital simply due to that is where the ambulance/family member took you? I don't know if Obamacare will work or not (and most things need time to work the kinks out) but the current model (veterinary included) is largely supported only by those making the gargantuan profits from it! (like put a dog's face on a bottle of ointment and then VOILA! charge pet owners 3X as much as the CVS human alternative!)

Would you kindly recommend a good Glucosamine/Chrondointin supplement? There seem to be so many available it would be nice to hear what another GSD owner may use.
 
#21 ·
puffswami;4829514 Would you kindly recommend a good Glucosamine/Chrondointin supplement? There seem to be so many available it would be nice to hear what another GSD owner may use.[/QUOTE said:
NEM (natural eggshell membrane) and home-made bone stock (true gelatin)
 
#22 ·
Gatorbytes got me using the natural eggshell membrane, and I've become a huge fan of it for seniors. There are a few threads about it you can find in the archives. Here's where I get it: http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-100-natural-eggshell-membrane

I usually use a glucosamine/msm/chondroitin combo (MUST have all 3) from Costco (human grade). A vet told me to make sure the big dog gets 1,500mg of glucosamine. When buying the human-grade of it, I carefully look to see how many tablets are needed to get that dose--some it's one, some it's two, some more! I'm not brand loyal, but I get good bang for the buck at Costco.

I also like to give dried trachea chews to senior dogs (lots of chondroitin in them), purchased from BestBullySticks.com.

I recently tried Dasequin, a name-brand vet-marketed glucosamine product on a foster dog. It worked very well for her. More specifically, it worked very well in combination with N.E.M. and hyaluronic acid/collagen II and Ester-C...can't say if it would have worked as well without those. It's supposed to be a more absorbable form of glucosamine. A similar product is Cosequin (same company), sold at Walmart and Costco.
 
#23 ·
Dasquin also has some other factors that it mixes in that I'm forgetting off of the top of my head, but the amount of people that we have who put their older dog onto it have nothing but good things to say.

Magwart gave good advice. I've used the Costco supplement and the Dasquin myself with my pets.

And as someone who works for two different veterinary hospitals that constantly have accounts receivable because of treating pets and discovering lack of funds later, with vets who are available around the clock and who often bend over backward for clients (even new people that come in), I suggest finding someone that you feel cares and perhaps having a touch of a more open mind about veterinarians and veterinary medicine. We sadly have to charge to keep our doors open, we don't get any help from outside sources like places for humans do and we have to deal with people constantly being rude and degrading to us because we don't trust them/give free services/etc. We would love to do the best medicine possible for every patient we see regardless of money, but that sadly is not reality. And hospitals/MDs charge far more than we do. Insurance just usually eats most the cost for humans.

The emergency/referral hospital that I work for actually recently managed to come up with a Care Plan system for people with limited income to get treatment for their pets (provided the outcome is positive). It is not free by any means, but services are donated, and there's a private fund that helps. This was something -every- vet in the place believes in and it gets offered constantly. We want to help. We just simply cannot eat the cost of everything that people could not afford and keep doors open and the place staffed. The overhead for the whole practice hits the millions every year. Just for doors open, utilities, supplies and non-veterinarian staff!

The reason that people say to go is because there are many conditions that share the same outward clinical signs, and there is always a chance what you think it happening could not be, and some diseases/illnesses are time dependent. The sooner you get a diagnosis and treatment, the better the outcome and quality of life for your pet. ;) There is likely far less people who work for vets on this forum than not.

Think of a variation on RICE for your pet, keep things to a minimum and it wouldn't hurt to be 100% sure that everything is okay. Your dude is a senior citizen after all, no matter how puppylike he may act. Believe me. My first dog had bilateral HD and never missed a beat, even if her legs didn't work all the time.
 
#24 ·
@All

Thanks for your advice and recommendations for prescriptions/medicines/joint supplements. Another pain-free day for my dog. Seems very mobile and happy and no missteps or awkward gaits on a very short & slow walk. Not a yelp was heard today.

Now I'm gonna try to find a decent vet while my dog is healthy. I think one of the reasons for poor service + high costs has been because of going to vets in times of need rather than to review their services. Like I said, anytime you are not in the bargaining position (in any transaction) you are in a very unfavorable position.

Thinking of trying to find smaller veterinary practices rather than the large busy ones I always go to, so may look on the outskirts of the metropolitan areas. It is so easy to wrongly assume that shinier = better care (I also think that when many vets see a GSD their pricing strategy is immediately inflated; not unlike getting a Rolls Royce repaired and having to pay a hefty premium over normal car repairs even though all cars basically operate the same).
 
#25 ·
.... Man you really have a rather warped way of viewing vets. I can admit I know some that are greedy, but it's greedy across the board, not breed specific. If you want to pick a breed to be jacking things on, all those brachiocephallic breeds or the toy breeds would be a better hit since they're usually the ones who have more medical problems in the long run. I haven't seen anyone, even ones that I know are the kind to try and get all the money they can, aren't the sort to look at someone and instantly increase prices or go for the most expensive. Honestly most of the time we simply try to guess who can at least afford basic things, and who likely won't have money even for an exam. We tend to like to know what kind of financial limitations there can be so that we can set care plans accordingly.

Just... -shakes her head-

Good luck in your search. Glad that your dog seems to be feeling better than he was.
 
#26 · (Edited)
.... Man you really have a rather warped way of viewing vets. I can admit I know some that are greedy, but it's greedy across the board, not breed specific. If you want to pick a breed to be jacking things on, all those brachiocephalic breeds or the toy breeds would be a better hit since they're usually the ones who have more medical problems in the long run. I haven't seen anyone, even ones that I know are the kind to try and get all the money they can, aren't the sort to look at someone and instantly increase prices or go for the most expensive. Honestly most of the time we simply try to guess who can at least afford basic things, and who likely won't have money even for an exam. We tend to like to know what kind of financial limitations there can be so that we can set care plans accordingly.

Just... -shakes her head-

Good luck in your search. Glad that your dog seems to be feeling better than he was.
.... Woman you really have a rather naive way of viewing the world. But I guess I would be too if lived in an isolated city with only 200,000 people and little diversity.

Just... -LOL-

Thank you for your well wishes. And yes, I am very familiar with brachiocephalic-breed expenses because of my other dog.

:)

 
#34 · (Edited)
UPDATE: 2 WEEKS+ since initial injury

Seemed to have been a strain. None of the classic sitting, walking symptoms of hip dysplasia or torn ACL were initially apparent so that is another reason I did not rush to the vet.

He seems to be back to 100% health. No pain or favoring other limbs and full mobility. I think the use of buffered aspirin helped quite a bit along with very limited walking during his recovery phase. However, he can also run at full speed with no instability in his gait.

The LESSON I learned was not to play chase on the pavement during cold weather/post-snowing/probably ever again. Even though the high speed of the ball is what he enjoys chasing after it is most likely that some leg muscle was pulled due to his ball-drive. I strongly suggest that only playing fetch on grass where speed can be lessened and sure-footedness increased + no chasing till spring.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top