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13wks- pretty sure she is trying to kill me

10K views 54 replies 32 participants last post by  27justice.bryant 
#1 ·
Prepare for a wall of text. My wife and I really need some help with several things with our 13 week old female working line GSD.

We've hired a local trainer who does shutzhund with her GSDs and occasionally breeds to help us but, there are some things I just don't think are getting sorted out for some reason. The trainer does say she is a very smart girl, who picks things up very quickly and I sometimes wonder if she isn't a bit too much dog for the trainer never mind my wife and I.

I'll list the issues in order of importance to me.

1. She bites... A LOT AND HARD. I've got cuts all over my hands as does my wife and today she drew blood from my mom who was doing me a favor and letting the dog out while I was at work and my wife who works from home is out of town.

I understand with any puppy and especially GSDs there will be chewing, playful mouthing and that she is probably teething right now. What I'm talking about is for a few hours a day she wants to do nothing but bite anyone or anything around except for what she is supposed to and I'm not sure how to address it. I've tried the methods detailed here:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-our-puppy-basic/134407-teaching-bite-inhibition.html

Pulling away and making an "ouch" noise just makes her look at you, mouth more softly for a little bit and then when you start to relax put the chomp on you.

When trying to redirect to a toy/chewy/etc... she drops it and bites your hands. When stopping play and walking away she attacks your feet or pants. We did this for the first two weeks with no real improvements. We started to use higher value chews like Bully sticks and pig snouts and saw some improvements initially but, she seemed to get over them pretty quick as well.

We've since tried several different methods recommended by either the breeder, trainer or the Monks of New Skete book I've read. Everything from fingers down her throat, hand under chin other hand behind head until settles, Lifting by scruff while supporting bottom or ribs until settles, lifting front legs off ground with leash and counting to 3... She seems to look at pretty much all of these as an escalation that she should then answer with more biting. :help:

2. Exercise/Walking on a lead, I'm sure this is where a lot of the problem above comes from. I don't think she is getting enough exercise. That being said it's not from a lack of effort on our part. Her and I will play fetch almost all evening and she is great at it. Loves it, doesn't fight to hold on the toy, brings it right back, everything is good.

She will walk on her lead like a champ if it's my wife and I together. However, if it is just one of us trying to walk her she wants nothing to do with it. She won't go past the driveway without serious encouragement, she just sits and looks back to the house. If I kneel down and call her she will come to me but, that is the extent of her progress. I walk 10' forward and repeat the kneeling/calling. I try to walk her when I get up, my wife tries at least 3 times during the day and the only time we really have much luck is when I get home in the evening and we can all go together.

She wears her collar and leash around the house most of the day so she is is used to the sensation of a collar and leash. What is the deal here?

She will also try to carry her leash in her mouth. I'm not sure how to stop this. I've tried the obvious like gently pulling it out her mouth and saying "drop it" like we do in fetch to putting some bitter apple on it, it doesn't seem to phase her in the least.

3. Jumping on people and furniture. I'll admit we totally set her up for failure on the furniture thing. In the first few days when she wasn't sleeping through the night or used to her crate we would put her on the couch with us so, we could catch a nap without worrying where she was or .

This has now evolved into "I will get on any of the furniture whenever I **** well please". When she is in "seek and destroy" mode she runs laps like a lunatic around the living room then leaps onto the couch or chair, possibly from one to the other and is now trying to scale the back of the couch to get onto the sofa table.:eek:

I generally try to get a hold of her lead before the she makes the leap up and say "no" or "off" if she is already up there but, it has made no difference. I'm not sure what to do here as in the long term I don't mind her being on the furniture when invited but, she is too young to get that notion yet.

Thanks in advance.
 
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#2 ·
Wow, you have really got your hands full :wild: Couple of ideas: 1. for the biting - your voice has be stern, say "sharply no, mine" and then offer the toy and say real happy like "this is yours" when she takes it praise her. It helps to have toys all over the house. Also get a flit pole so she can have something to chase and bite instead of you.
2. for the tugging on the leash on walks - this is excitement - you can use an extender leash as that discourages the tugging game or again redirect - carry a ball or toy - and do the same thing - the leash is yours, the toy is hers.
3. for the walking with only 1 of you - start out, then before she can stop, turn in a circle but don't go back to the house - just go in a complete circle and again head out. Also use the ball - throw it a little way and let her get it. Don't coax her - just walk , turn in circles, and distract with the ball. Also keep it short don't try to go to far.
 
#3 · (Edited)
I really feel for you, the land shark phase was very hard. Nothing worked for us except time. Hope she stops when she gets older, as Hans did.
He doesn't do any more gatoring, but I still have the scars.
I wouldn't push her too hard to get too far away from the house right now. Make walks fun, take a toy with you, and if she's too scared to go out into the big world there's plenty of time for that. Plus, she still needs to have her vaccinations done.
I highly recommend an expen. I don't know what we would've done without ours. It helps them have a place where they can calm down, they can't get out of it and it teaches them to settle in the house. Hans still uses his as his chillout spot, and we don't use the crate anymore because he doesn't try to get out of his ex-pen. That is his spot and he likes it.
Also, I can always put him in there and I don't have to worry about turning my back. He can't get himself in trouble or ingest something bad for him if he is in his expen with an elk antler.
 
#4 ·
I had the same issue with Grim. I also still have scars all over my ankles and arms. Time, time, time. Keep trying to re-direct. I had to do some serious scruffing with a stern "NO!" at one point because it was so out of control. Do you have a fenced yard? If so, for now just wear her out in the yard. Walks we did a little at a time, with me kneeling down with treats to get him to come forward. It was a slow process. What finally helped was taking our other dogs out at the same time. He wanted to follow them. Others had also said that driving the pup away from home to walk worked. If you can't do that... I'd suggest maybe picking the pup up and walking a ways from the house then putting her down to walk. If shots aren't done yet... then wait for that. Are you getting her out of the house at all? Grim still grabs and carries his leash at times. That's a battle we're not going to have right now. Let me tell you, you're going to have to pick your battles. Maybe the furniture battle isn't one you want to have right now, either. It's up to you. With this kind of pup, you have to decide what things you're going to work on. I found that the more restrictions you try to place, the more they tend to not want to get with the program. Grim was given a lot of latitude for a long time. I wanted him to just be a pup while I could. Good luck to you! I'd really suggest finding a trainer that has lots of shepherd experience that you're comfortable with. I'm not sure that your breeder placed the 'right' pup with you... but if you're OK with her, then just find a good trainer.

Oh, and you must post pics.
 
#5 ·
I still have shirts with holes in them from when the former fuzzygator would jump and bite me repeatedly. He would also love to go for my rear end :eek:

I had scratches and bruises everywhere. I, too, scruffed him and got firm with him a few times, and although he looked scared when I did it, moments later he recovered and would be at it again. :crazy:

When I see him now, so calm and affectionate and with his tail always wagging, it's tough to believe this is the same dog. I do think most grow out of this behavior, if provided with good leadership and training.

Oh, and for jumping-- learn to read her body language and step on her leash as she gets ready to jump. The jumping has to stop now, before she becomes a jumping moose.
 
#8 ·
We have all been through that land shark stage. It hurts! You have gotten a lot of good suggestions. I particularly like redirecting with a ball or tug and try to wear the pup out with lots of play. Once a day isn't enough for pups. Like everyone else mentioned wait for the shots to take her a lot of places but do play a lot. A tired pup is a good pup. She sounds really smart. You might want to try hiding things (in easy places to find at first) for her to find. I used to show Pyrate what I wanted him to find, then put him in a down while I hid it. Then the command to find would send him off to find it. At first I left the item in clear view so he could find it easily in the yard, then I gradually made it harder by hiding it behind things. If you do this gradually it's fun for the pup and may even make them like searching for things in the future. Lots of praise when they find the item and more play as well.
 
#10 ·
I understand once a day isn't enough for exercise. If she would walk with just one of us she'd be going for around 5 walks a day plus play time.

We have noticed if we carry her up a few streets to somewhere that she can't see the house she will walk better and if I take her to Lowe's she'll walk pretty well so, I'll try taking her somewhere besides our neighborhood and see how that goes.
 
#12 ·
1. She bites... A LOT AND HARD.
Haha, first thing that our breeder told us: "If you don't have scars and marks all over your arms... YOU ARE NOT playing with your puppy enough!" I love this, can't wait for my landshark!

Like owning a kitten was ever "scratch free"....

Anyways, my brothers puppy was was a shark for a few months... really bad, no cuddling, could not touch his head, pet him at all. They tried EVERYTHING from redirecting to bitter spray on their hands and no luck. Than one day.. He just stopped and became a licker, now he lick attacks people.

This biting thing does not scare me. My brothers baby also tries to bite the cat, haha so it sounds like animals and human alike... that's how they play and explore.

As for the furniture, one thing that worked is they used a baby gate to isolate the dog in one room, kitchen etc if they were busy around the house or had guests. The dog learned to respect the gate. So they would take that gate and set it on the sofa... The dog did not jump up thinking that's a barrier... They started doing this with everything dog could not have or where dog could not go... Now the dog is a year and a half and there is no more crate or gate and everything is working out great for them. I am sure everyone dog is different and you just need to find that something that works, but 13 weeks is very young. =)
 
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#14 ·
For play time, to help wear her out you could try to fashion your own flirt pole, or take a toy and tie it on a soft rope to pull around the house.

Just remember that she has tiny baby teeth so you don't want her to engage with an all out tug of war.

I love playing with puppets. It's been my experiance it helps the pup focus on the toy and not the hand.
 
#15 ·
Time will help with a lot of this, as others have said.

Also, never reward biting. Teach the pup that biting ENDS play and loses him your attention ( for a few minutes).

Just keep redirecting and be consistent.

As for the bouncing onto the furniture . . .keep working on the command "Off." I won't tell you that my dogs don't get on the furniture when I am not home, but they have learned that they have to be invited to come up when I am here, lol.

I used to come home to find my dog Peanut up in the carpeted cat tree with my two cats looking out the window at squirrels. She was raised by two spoiled cats and THEY walked up on the furniture so she did as well. She eventually learned to ask me before jumping up, but I think she always resented having that rule when the cats don't!
 
#16 · (Edited)
HOLY CRAP! I dealt with so much of this. Our puppy still does some of this. I tried the "ouch" thing. It's always worked for me, except with Vandy. She bit so hard during play time and, for treats. I have literally bled so much for this puppy.

It got to a point where I couldn't take it anymore. I did not get aggressive with her but, I did take a tougher approach. If she bit any part of me or my clothing I'd harshly say "too much!" and, GENTLY hold her mouth closed and, bring her face down to the ground. I never did this in a rough way but, I was firm. I held her mouth closed for 5-10 seconds. Long enough to know I was serious but, not long enough to confuse her. Then Id move on and, play with her toys. I did this every time in exactly the same way.
Now after about three or four weeks of this she still bites but, very very gently. No more cuts. Now I just say "too much." When I do this she stops and, starts licking instead, which we praise her for. As far as treats go I'd put them in my closed had and, let her smell/lick at it. If she bit I'd do the same thing as before and, once she was just nuzzling my hand I'd open it and, let her take it gently. I haven't gotten a good bite from her in a very very long time.

I agree with a previous response- the furniture battle totally not worth it right now. I'm with you though on how she is with guests. I use the same command all the time for when she is doing something I don't like. "No ma'am!" I always use it while correcting the behavior. If she's chewing a shoe I say the command and, then give her a toy etc. Now she knows what it means now and, she will stop and, look at me. Its redundant honestly but, worth it.

Our puppy also did/still does the stopping on the leash. She'll just stop, sit or lay down and, stare at me. DRIVE ME NUTS. She doesn't do this if we're walking both dogs at the same time. She'll follow Fynn into a fire I swear. However, Fynn isn't walking her is he? After I realized that was the situation I hate to admit it but, I stopped trying to coax her into it. I just kept walking. Let me be clear I did this slowly. I didn't jog along hahaha! Stay on the grass so if you tug her along for a couple feet she's just sort of rolling in grass but, she's not going to like it at all and, will quickly cave. Vandy sure did. She did find more devious ways to be a pain on the walk though so we borrowed a choker from a friend, she immediately got what was up and, is an angel on walks. We only used it for three or four days. I dont suggest pulling her in ANYWAY if she's got the choker on. Just let her place the pressure on the choker. She will get it and, decide she doesn't want to do that to herself. I used to have to constantly pull her and, now I can carry leash with my pinkie if I want to.

This is the first puppy I've had to use this sort of firm training but, she's very smart and, learned very quickly. She's still a puppy and, doing lots of puppy stuff but, we don't feel overwhelmed like we were. Anyway, good luck!
 
#18 ·
I'm just raising my first pup, so I may or may not be doing things right, but what's worked for us and the furniture is to just get up and leave the room. My pup jumps on the furniture for attention. Using "off" became a game for him. Up, off, up, off. Great fun! Now, we use the worst punishment (in his eyes) which is ignoring him. He jumps up, we leave. It sucks when you are trying to watch a tv show, but after a while I am hoping it just won't be worth it to him. He jumps right off when we leave the room and follows us, so we just bring him back to the living room and put him on his bed or mat and give him lots of love there to reinforce that he gets loves there and not the sofa.

Good luck with your shark. I'm no help there. My pups teething and biting even more now than when he was younger. Ugh.
 
#19 ·
She is CUTE! :D

Sunflowers- I'm jealous that Hans looked afraid when you scruffed him. Grim just came back at me barking and snarling the first time, LOL! :eek: That's when I had to get serious about our first "head butting". He never looked afraid but he did stop and think about it for a minute. I'm glad he never got into biting me on the rear! :p

OP- IMO, if you have a pup that you've seen close their eyes, you're in GREAT shape!
 
#21 ·
I will say in advance that I didn't read through every post.

Have you ever heard of a gentle leader dog collar? It almost looks like a horse harness. They work wonders!! The vet doing our obidence classes recommend them. He told us that at a training in vegas, they brought in several very vicious and crazy dogs from a shelter.. tons of barking etc.. Took them a bit to get the gentle leader on them, but almost instantly all unwanted behavior stopped.. Had a group of dogs laying on the ground no longer barking. We had our dogs fitted with them and the do work great. They have a little thing that goes over the muzzle kind of at what we would call the bridge of your nose.. and hooks behind the ears.. I will include a link
it teaches them that you are the pack leader.

Something to check into.. We had them fitted by the vet that sold them so that we would know they were tight enough in the right places.
 
#23 ·
it teaches them that you are the pack leader.
People, through raising the dog, socializing it and training it teaches a dog that you're the leader. NOT a piece of training equipment. Sorry, but that just rubbed me the wrong way. There are some dogs that the 'gentle leader' does well with, I'm sure. IMO, that contraption doesn't belong on a GSD. I personally would find it humiliating to the dog to have to wear something like that, but that's JMO.
 
#22 ·
She is a herding dog. When just one of you tries to take her for a walk she knows part of her HERD is missing. Seriously. That's why she doesn't want to leave.

When it's just a one-on-one walk I would toss her in the car, drive to a great park or something and walk there. As she matures she will begin to realize that walks can take place without the entire pack.

As for the biting - she doesn't just want to play ... she wants to play WITH you. Tug is a great game to play - even with puppies and their puppy teeth. Just be sure not to pull on the tug - just hold onto it. Let her do all the tugging and such.

When puppies play and one gets to rough the other puppies don't yell "Ouch!". They go "IPE!" Like the word ripe without the R. Try that next time she bites too hard. Make it loud and high pitched (like a puppy) and then ignore her for a few minutes. That's exactly what her littermates would do.
 
#24 ·
What a difference 24 hours makes. She was a complete angel yesterday. I really think her teeth have been bothering her a lot lately as her ears have been down for a few days. Yesterday they were back up and she was the sweetest she's been in quite a while.

I also upped her food a bit as she's hit a growth spurt and was starting to thin out so maybe that makes a difference.
 
#27 ·
Another thing that helps our little maniac is keeping her tired. Whether it's at the park, in the back yard or whatever, run with her. If she doesn't want to go on walks alone take her as far as she will go then let your wife start jogging by. She'll probably want to tag along and, you all can have a nice little family jog haha! Tired puppies are happy puppies and, less insane hahaha! Glad you had a peaceful day!
 
#28 ·
I am glad I read this!! Sounds JUST like ours! She loves biting us, and chews on everything. Plus she eats every little thing she finds on the floor or in the yard.
She's fine as long as you keep giving her treats but as soon as my hand is empty ( she can tell even if my hand is CLOSED) , she chomps down hard. She is a very smart dog, learned to sit and wait for the treat in about 2 minutes, but she's also learned that if I run out of treats, there is no longer a reason to sit and not bite.

She also does not want to leave the property! As soon as we are at the end of the driveway, the tough mean biting machine turns into a whimpering little girl that wants to be picked up!!

We have no problem with her on the furniture. We have another dog ( a Shihtzu ) that is allowed to sit on the couch. He protects his couch and barks at her if she even puts her little paws up there. It's funny how she respects another very small dog, but not her humans :)

Going to puppy training class in a few weeks. She is 10 weeks at the moment
 
#29 ·
She also does not want to leave the property! As soon as we are at the end of the driveway, the tough mean biting machine turns into a whimpering little girl that wants to be picked up!!
None of my GSD's pups like to be walked off my property on a leash.

But they all got picked up to go for car rides and got tons of exercise when we arrived at our new fun location and exited the vehicle. When my body is 'home' they want to stay with me. When my house is 'home' they want to stay near it. So I drive away from the house and become my puppy's safe place. :)



 
#31 ·
Agree with everything you just have said!

That's exactly what her littermates would do.[It is also advisable to teach her at home. It could be great if she were a food stimulated character. Don't give her something for nothing, ask her to do something prior to her meal, a few commands. Ask her to bark, for instance./QUOTE]
 
#32 ·
Frozen wash clothes (just watch her with them) or other frozen things may help her with teething. Grim went through a TON of bully sticks during that time, because he could easily adjust them to where in his mouth he needed to chew.
 
#33 ·
Well, I'm hoping we've turned a corner with her. She's been so much better about the nipping the last few days. There was a little regression for a few days with my wife when she got back from Italy. I'm willing to trade that she's discovered how to unroll the toilet paper for her stopping about 90% of the nipping.
 
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