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What should I do? puppy agression?

5K views 41 replies 22 participants last post by  brandongill1 
#1 ·
Hi guys me again, so I am completely at a loss for words right now with Odin, with our family he's the perfect dog, calm, relaxed, and extremely loving, but with strangers he just pulls a complete 180, in the 10 months that we have had him, he has attacked 3 people, has never bitten anyone, but has jumped on them snarling and barking, WE HAVE gone through 3 obedience classes with him, but he is just so fearful of people he's never met before, always on guard, and never really fully paying attention, I am just so worried that one day he's going to cross the line and bite someone, and we would have to put him down, our breeder told us that if we did ever have problems with him she would gladly take him back, which now half my family is considering, I don't know what I should do, and what would be fair to Odin, the last behaviourist that came in here suggested that we put him on prozac to help calm him down,

What are your guy's thoughts?
 
#2 ·
It would be a good idea to find a trainer who specializes in these type of behavior disorders. When you say obedience classes I am assuming a class at a local petstore or such? You may have to look outside of your local area to find the right person.

How old is he and and what age did you bring him home? I know that GSD's if not socialized often behave like you describe.
 
#5 ·
Clearly you have a liability on your hands. This dog, if you dont give him back to the breeder or put him to sleep, needs to be managed intensely. You say he's attacked 3 people. When someone says attack, I dont think of it as "oh hey nobody was really hurt". I see stitches, a new fear of dogs, etc.... If this dog is not okay around outsiders, he needs to be kept away from them. Not even allowed to interact with them. It obviously stresses him out more than he can handle.
Speaking from experience, managing a fear aggressive dog can become an extremely stressful task, especially when it lasts for years. In our case, our fear aggressive guy has been going downhill the last few years and he's reached the point that we're deciding when to take him to the vet and release him from whatever demons are floating around his head. He's 8. He's been a wreck since he was about 2. Do whats best for you, your dog and your family. Living in fear can cause a great deal of stress on your dog.
 
#6 · (Edited)
You need to find a good behaviorist to figure out where this fear is coming from. Is it genetics? trauma? A combination of things? Whether or not it's "fixable". An obedience class isn't going to do anything for your dog. No one here can really help you without being able to physically be there and assess the dog and his behavior. If you do decide you cannot manage this dog then you should start by contact your breeder. This dog sounds like a liability so rehoming really is not an option.
 
#7 ·
1>>> keep him away from strangers. muzzle him.

2>>> find a behaviourist and manage him.

3>>> if you can't manage him give him back to
the breeder.

some dogs are off no matter how well you
train them, no matter how well you socialized
them, if you use the best beaviourist that
practices you can still have problems.

good luck.
 
#8 ·
I disagree with most of the advise here, so I may well be 100% wrong. I would work very hard at socializing him even more. Start with people he knows or will be around some of the time, and add some people that are alerted to his behavior. and aren't afraid of dogs. It is usually the little unconscious nervous signals that people do that sets a dod off. BTW, one of the ways to train a dog to be aggresive is to hold them back when someone comes around. I got lucky & my Maggie loves almost everyone & thinks strangers all love her. I took her for walks around the neighborhood almost as soon as I got her & encouraged everyone to pet her. One thing for sure is that you have to be the boss & all rules of yours have to be followed.
Best of luck
 
#11 ·
I disagree with most of the advise here, so I may well be 100% wrong. I would work very hard at socializing him even more. Start with people he knows or will be around some of the time, and add some people that are alerted to his behavior. and aren't afraid of dogs. It is usually the little unconscious nervous signals that people do that sets a dod off.
Yes and no. Counter conditioning and socialization needs to be done but it needs to be guided by an experienced trainer/behaviorist in order to keep everyone safe.

One more thought, I think in this situation an electric collar could be invaluable.
Absolutely not.

OP, please do some educationg on canine body language; one of my favorites is The Language of Dogs dvd by Sarah Kalnajs. Get a trainer/behaviorist that is experienced in dealing with these kinds of issues to help guide you. A muzzle and proper conditioning to it will be invaluable to saving your dogs life and your wallet from a lawsuit.
 
#12 ·
That could make things worse if not used properly. Some dogs freak out with e-collars.

Has he always been like this? Is he currently on any medications?

If it's something recent, I think there are some health issues that can cause that type of behaviour, certain medication side-effects, and I think thyroid problems?

I might be wrong on those, but I seem to recall someone saying that to me.

Best of luck. I agree about having him muzzled if you're out and about or if someone comes to the door. I also think investigating a trainer who's used to hard dogs is a good idea, as someone suggested.
 
#10 ·
You say you have had him 10 months - is that his age?
A good vet - preferably one with EXPERIENCE with working dogs and their drives can tell you if Prozac/Flouxetine can help. Typically the goal is for it to calm the dog enough that the TRAINING you are undertaking to change the behavior problem can be more effective.
I would say quite a bit of easy socializing at his pace should be tried before writing him off. That said, some things you can fix, some things you can only manage.
 
#13 ·
I would try to find someone very experienced with the breed. Maybe a behaviorist, maybe not. Some are good, others try to solve every dog's problem the same ways and don't take into account how different breeds should act and be treated differently.
 
#15 ·
Spend months (preferably with a trainer) training your dog one on one, mainly working on focus. Make your dog focus on YOU, only YOU, at all times. Then once you're comfortable (again preferably the trainer would agree), you can introduce small distractions that he's comfortable with (so people he knows, other dogs that he won't freak out around). Slowly add more and more distractions, but always make sure he's looking at you and concentrating on the work at hand rather than the new distraction.

This way...you condition him to ignore things rather than trying to retrain his genetic response. I would not "test" this dog with anyone, not even people that aren't afraid of dogs. I'm not afraid of dogs...but my heart would skip a beat if a full grown GSD was coming at me barking and growling. Dogs sense those little changes in our behavior and they react to them. Do not under any circumstances allow this dog to ever lunge/run at anybody again.
 
#16 ·
Call me dramatic, over the top or whatever, but this to me is when a reputable breeder steps in with honesty or admits placement was wrong and helps in some way either based on a contract or just for the health and happiness of the dog and the public. Sorry breeders but you started it so get in there and figure out what went wrong. Training, loose screw in dog, owner. The dog may be fantastic with clear, concise direction. Or not, but still say breeders need to step up in this.
 
#18 ·
You're speaking of 'the last behaviorist' so I'm taking that as saying that in addition to OB classes, the dog has seen behaviorists. Although I can't see your dog, I can can share my experience with you. I got a bitch many years ago. Before she was a year old (and her first outburst of any kind) she suddenly jumped up and grabbed an elderly lady by her shirt and flung her to the floor. I caught her as she was going for the woman's throat. There was no proceeding bark, growl, baring of teeth, or anything else that would have alerted me as to what was coming. The woman had been petting her without issue for a few minutes right before this happened. It was not at my home. Several behaviorists/trainers later, we were no better off. She attacked a few other people.. both in and out of my home. I worked with her religiously. It made no difference. The breeder didn't offer to take her back. After many, many years (when she started to have health issues as well) we said good-bye. It's still painful, like an open wound that won't heal. All I have to do is see her picture, think about her, or see a pic of another dog (mainly Halo) who looks like her and I start bawling. The stress our family lived under all that time was great.

If you are prepared to 'manage' the dog for the rest of its life, then keep trying different things. Accidents tend to happen, though, and it only takes one second for another attack to occur. If I were in your shoes, I'd return the dog to the breeder. Sometimes dogs just aren't "right". Probably because the breeder doesn't know enough about matching pedigrees, or is breeding dogs that have had issues. Only you know if there was something that happened that would've caused this. I didn't see you mention that, so I'm again assuming that the dog wasn't attacked by another dog or person in its young life. Management of this type of dog isn't something I'd ever do again. Once is enough for me. I wish you the best of luck. I really, really do. I hate reading posts like this. :(
 
#19 ·
We have seen a behaviourist, one that was recommended by our vet, what she told us was that odin had a very low threshold for anxiety, and the smallest thing could set him off in a frenzy, she recommended prozac so we could train him to focus more on us, but she said it wasn't a guarantee it would work I am just so confused :confused:, I thought our socialization was great, and started training early as well, but this anxiety thing just popped out of no where, and its just been slowly getting worse and worse. I do love him and want to manage this, but I am always worried that something out of the blue will set him off.. and he'll be in get into a lot more trouble then just jumping on strangers
 
#20 ·
When does he get the opportunity to jump on the strangers? I know when my puppy was Odin's age, he liked jumping on people entering our home. So he was crated when they entered. And before he was let out, my guests were told to face away from him and ignore him until he was calm. Some people didn't listen to me (isn't that always the case, lol?) and those were the people he jumped on the most. Because he was being rewarded with their attention for doing it. Is this what's happening?
 
#21 ·
well the last time this happened, odin somehow managed to get out of our house and started jumping on a person who was walking in front our house,

it happens sometimes when people come over, either he'll just bark at them, or jump up and bark at them, I tell them to either ignore him, or I hand them treats which calm him down right away, its a huge ordeal when people come over, and I am just exhausted
 
#25 ·
This does not sound like your first post at all. Is he being obnoxious, or is he being aggressive? :confused: Taking treats from strangers and calming right down does NOT sound like he needs to be medicated or that he's a threat. (Other than knocking people down) My bitch NEVER took treats from strangers. She'd by-pass that attempt to try to eat the PERSON. (but only when the mood would strike her, it was a Tuesday, it was sunny, it was cloudy, etc. etc.) Are the people you're seeing familiar with GSD's? Do you have a working line? Is the dog bored? What reactions are leading you to think it's fear or anxiety based? I'm more confused than ever at this point- not that it's hard to get me there. :crazy:
 
#22 ·
It is a giant pain in the butt, I know. That's why you have to do something to train him not to do it, either by crating him or leashing him or gating him - something to let him know that the jumping (and the barking to go with it) is unacceptable and has to stop. If he's able to calm right down and focus on the treats, then IMO the problem isn't as bad as other people think it is. Can you seek another opinion, someone who has experience with GSDs?
 
#24 ·
brandongill1, your worry is well founded, as the responsible owner of your dog, you have to face the fact. :( Follow your vets advice, train with the best trainer and behaviorist you can find, and do your best. It can be an all-consuming task to get in your dogs head and unravel all the knots. In the meantime you absolutely have to keep him crated/on a lead and/or in a muzzle around strangers and avoid social situations where he would fail.
 
#30 ·
update:

the guy odin jumped and barked at, has called animal control, and they have told us that we need to call them back, not sure why, and will have to wait until tomorrow to find out, we also contacted our breeder who came in and looked at the dog, and she said that the problems he was exhibiting could be fixable, she told us that if it was too much to handle, she wanted to give Odin to a breeder/trainer in Montreal, who would use him as a show dog,

on the other hand I also had one of my uncles contact me as well, saying that he would take odin if we wanted to give him to him, and he has had german shepherds since he was a kid,

I definitely feel that all thats happened so far, that me and my family are in over our heads, and that I feel he should be given to someone a lot more experienced then we are, and who can train him and put in the time, I love my dog and that's why I feel that this would be the best move for him

wondering what your guys thoughts were as I'm not sure where would be the best place for him to be
 
#31 ·
Brandon, I'm sorry about all this. I'm glad that your breeder is there for help and that you have a few choices that might be a better fit for Odin.

One thing I would do since he is showing such unstable behaviour at such an early age and is going to be rehomed, is to Neuter him ASAP. You are doing the responsible thing by realizing that he is too much for you to handle, and you also want to make sure that his dangerous fearfulness will NOT be transmitted on to other GSDs.

This is not a dog that should go to a breeder. The GSD world does not need any more fear-reactive dogs. There is no reason at all why a breeder/trainer would want to have him as a show dog other than to use him as a stud.

If your uncle has experience with reactive GSDs, and has offered to take Odin, I think it will be a good fit. But do neuter Odin first. Maybe you were waiting for Odin to get older, but I would do it now to make sure it is done before he leaves your hands and is out of your control.
 
#32 ·
I agree with this. Why on earth would the breeder want to give this dog to someone to show if he's got this behavioral issue? If it was serious enough for someone to call animal control... then maybe your initial post was more spot on than the second. Genetics should stop with him. The breeder should be taking a hard look at what he/she is breeding. Not trying to pass on those genetics further! :eek: You also can't trust anyone else to neuter. Needs to be done before the dog leaves your home. If the breeder wants to compensate you for the dog, fine, but neuter first. What is your contract with your breeder?
 
#34 ·
I have experience with a fear aggressive GSD. I rescued him when he was a year old. He was great with us, but couldn't be around strangers as he would bite. Luckily, we seldom have visitors and when we would, he would be put in a bedroom or on a leash until they left. When we had him in public, he was fine as long as no one tried to pet him, so we keep everyone away. We would never give him up, we learned to live with him and know what he is comfortable with and what he is not. When he goes to the vet, he is muzzled. I think the best thing for you to do is to neuter your boy and give him to someone that can handle him. Good luck.
 
#35 ·
I also hope you realize this is NOT the breed. Shepherds are wonderful dogs. The "only" dog for many of us. I hope you don't give up on the breed because of this experience. There are good breeders out there who care what they're breeding. They produce sound dogs who are a true joy to live with. I seriously hope that at some point you get to experience that.
 
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