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Need Advice on GSD Breeding...

10K views 81 replies 24 participants last post by  huntergreen 
#1 ·
My husband and I just purchased our very first GSD.. a 6MO female. We are thinking about the future and thinking about breeding her when she is old enough. I heard 2YO is when you can start... correct? We live in Northeast Ohio near Youngstown; and are wanting to see if there are any breeders w/ a short-haired GSD stud that produces great pups nearby. All the advice and knowledge would be greatly appreciated! Thank You!!! :)
 
#3 ·
Well, it is never too early to think about where you want to go with your new dog.

However, you're kind of starting on the wrong end here. Your puppy is too young to evaluate for breeding, so you will be better served to work with her, take her to classes, train her, get her to some shows, and spend the next year evaluating her to see what areas she needs a stud dog to improve.

You need to pick the dog by evaluating the bitch, and she simply isn't there yet.

Stick around. there is lots of information on this site.

Also, there is a GSD club close enough for you to get to. It is a great place to get to know the dogs and their owners.

PM if you are interested in that.
 
#67 ·
another photo that was edited(size was 600x800)?...so reposting it again, hoping this one is legal, get out the magnifying glass;)
 
#5 ·
Thank you everyone! I'm now wanting to forget about it. lol ;) yea after seeing the big picture and the grand total of JUST THE BREEDING, me and my husband are really reconsidering. Because we DEFINITELY don't have the money for that. I guess i never really considered the vet bills for the bitch before, during, and after, and the puppies after they're born. If anything, it may be further into the future than we thought, if we do plan again. Thanks again everyone! :)
 
#6 ·
Thank you everyone! I'm now wanting to forget about it. lol ;) yea after seeing the big picture and the grand total of JUST THE BREEDING, me and my husband are really reconsidering. Because we DEFINITELY don't have the money for that. I guess i never really considered the vet bills for the bitch before, during, and after, and the puppies after they're born. If anything, it may be further into the future than we thought, if we do plan again. Thanks again everyone! :)
How smart are YOU???? I know I'll never be a breeder for so many reasons, much easier to leave it to the people who have the experience and background to do it well, and I'll support them with my $$$$ so they can keep up the good work!

HEY, where are the brags and pictures of your pup ????

:wild: :wub: :wild:
 
#7 ·
It's your first GSD . To you she may be the sun, the moon , the stars , and I hope she is , the best experience for you . Get involved , learn the breed , do training, have the dog critically evaluated , in the ring, on the trial field, x rayed, health checked , and then there is the pedigree , and finding the RIGHT match for her that does more than contribute sperm . There is SOOOO much to know . If that works for you , then the forum is a great place to start learning ---- so lets see the pup , and lets hear where you got her from and what her background is.
 
#9 ·
yes, im still learning SO much! :) i mean my aunt has a long haired GSD and all i REALLY know is that they are very protective of their "pack" and Oh so loyal.. like my pup is turning out to be. :D

Anyway, my husband's friend from work was looking for a dog for us since we were looking; and she happen to see the ad of the puppy. She was actually found on Craigslist. The family we got her from Texas and the husband was in the military... and they werent, the best of taking care of her.. if id say... the husband wanted her but the wife said no because she wasnt a "big dog lover". But we went and got her on Nov 30th this year. I kid you not she had to be under 40lbs because i could see every rib and spine bone. a week later, we put her in puppy classes, doing fantastic, and shes now up to a healthy 55lbs and filling out beautifully! :)
 

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#10 ·
OH! I definitely dont think she was properly socialized with other people and dogs... because shes very skittish with new people, and barks at every dog she dont know.. which is understandable, but it gets embarrassing when im out shopping and she goes bazurk barking at others.. it also makes me very nervous... because idk how she will really act with the others.. shes been great with her puppy class friends until its time to play.. she plays so rough, she paws (which i find normal with puppies) but she also tries to bite as shes playing. which makes me super nervous about the other owners. When she goes nuts, Ive tried getting her attention with treats, "poking" her side and making a loud noticeable different noise than shes used to, but she like, "blocks" me out.. Ive tried about everything but a squeaky toy.. which i dont think that'll work either... Any advice?
 
#11 ·
PS... my pup is iffy with certain family too.. mostly my younger brother and sister.. she wanted NOTHING to do with them.. we've tried everything... and she still goes nuts when they are around... i must add that they are very loud, and ADHD like... -.- ive told them to stay calm, dont acknowledge her, etc, they listened, but didnt work. Everyone else, shes cool with. :confused:
 
#12 ·
I would start another thread in the training section. Or read some of the threads in the training/behavior forums, many have the same things you are dealing with.

The book Control Unleashed has several exercises to help dogs with reactivity. I'd invest in a copy asap!

Also some training places do hold classes based on the book(or the CU concept) if you can, get into one of those classes.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Her temperament isn't from lack of socialization...it is genetic and really she isn't a dog that should pass on her traits.
A dog that is:

skittish with new people,
barks at every dog she dont know
my pup is iffy with certain family too
she still goes nuts when they are around


doesn't sound like one with a stable temperament. After she's been well trained and still has this personality, please do not consider breeding her.
 
#34 ·
Without knowing your dogs background it's impossible to tell if her less-than-desirable temperament is due to nature (genetics) or nurture (her up bringing).

Even if it's not genetic it IS something she can pass along to the puppies.

The bitch plays a HUGE part in the upbringing of the puppies. Her actions are what the puppies see and start to imitate.

If Mom acts scared when a stranger approaches then the pups will, too.

I fostered a small mixed-breed dog for a rescue group (years ago). The bitch was as sweet as pie to my DH, myself and our pack - until she started to give birth. As each pup was born she became more protective. By the time the last pup was born we couldn't even come within 5 feet of the whelping box.

We weren't able to handle the pups for almost 10 days. Mom ate, slept, peed and pooped in the room she was in. We were finally able to make a lasso from a leash, toss it over her head and drag her out of the box - literally - so we could check the pups and clean up the room.

Every time we had to take her out of the room it was the same routine. She would jump in the whelping box and crouch over the pups, growling and snarling at us. We would lasso her and as soon as she was outside she was happy and friendly to us.

The problem was her reactions were already impacting the puppies. We weaned them a week early just to get them away from her but it was too late. The pups were afraid of people and terrified of our dogs.

It took alot of work to get them to the point where they were adoptable and I found out later than one of them was returned to the rescue due to temperament and had to be put down.

I would never breed a bitch that didn't have a rock-solid, 100% awesome temperament.
 
#17 ·
Please read this before breeding your dog with unknown background - you are not only NOT adding anything positive to the breed (as a whole) it's breedings like this that are the DOWNFALL of the GSD.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-losing-her-leg-today-eastern-wa-state-2.html

For those contemplating breeding your dogs who are not titled (sometimes not even registered) or health tested...think about Heidi.

She was most likely bred under the same circumstances - although a beautiful girl with a sweet temperament (and a FINE family companion!) she isn't anything special that when I look at her I can see that the breeder had specific goals in mind.

Most likely they just like the breed, they love their dogs and wanted to create more like them. Maybe they wanted to earn back some of the money they spent on the parents, or maybe not. I've heard that sentiment too many times to completely disregard it.

The problem is, any good potential buyers who can easily afford a dog up to (and sometimes over) $1200 aren't going to be surfing craigslist or the want ads searching for a puppy! No, they'll be asking about good breeders here on places like this, or going straight to AKC's websites to find good, quality breeders who breed to better the breed - not just because they have a male and female, or a female and their friend has a male. These buyers know what a crap shoot puppies can be, and want to stack the odds in their favor by going with breeders who health and temperament test their dogs.

So...dogs like Heidi wind up in a home where she was quite probably always an outside dog - maybe a fence, maybe not.
And one day she wasn't there. Either wandered off, or maybe even stolen.
A few days later the owner notices she's back, with a bad injury this time.
And now she's in rescue minus the leg which some idiot managed to damage irreparably.

For most breeders who breed their dogs just because they can, this is the fate of quite possibly half or more of the puppies in the litter.
Sometimes they wind up in great, lifelong homes. Most often, I'm willing to bet not.

This scenario repeats itself daily in our country. Shelters are overflowing with the surplus puppies and dogs that people had little to no commitment to in the first place, and those dogs must go somewhere.

I read statistics a while back that said an average person would have to own like, 5-6 dogs (per person in America) to take care of all the dogs already in this world.
I mean - per person! A family of 4? 20 dogs. Per family.

It really makes you stop and think, or it should.
I know the fates of dogs like this, because we're called daily to try to help them. We face, daily, the results of irresponsible breeding
 
#20 ·
Do you have her pedigree? You are in an area with puppy mills aren't you? Could she have come from a miller?
 
#21 ·
and @ msvette2u... as i said me and my husband are still new to the "registered" GSD world. you could say a bunch of names and neither of us would understand.. lol but we're are not meaning to be "irresponsible" breeders. most of it was for the $ and so someone can enjoy their own GSD like we are enjoying our pup... i mean, w/ professional breeders, isn't it for $$ along w/ just business? Just curious..
 
#23 · (Edited)
Most breeders breed because they are passionate about the breed...they want to do right by the breed and money isn't really the goal. They work their dogs, title them, and show how well their program is doing by working, titling, and showing what they've produced!

Would you support a breeder who is passionate and knowledgeable about the breed and how to properly match pedigrees, or one that is just putting two of the same breed together to make $?

I asked about the pedigree out of curiosity...papers don't necessarily make the dog, it is what is in the bloodlines that does. A dog can have papers and the pedigree is a mishmashed mess. Or it can be a thought out breeding match. Because you admit you don't know lineage, how would you know what you have?
 
#24 ·
You've gotten some pretty good advice so far, but just keep in mind that a lot of these traits (barking at dogs, skittish around new people, etc) will be passed on to those puppies. Those puppies are most likely going to grow up and have these same characteristics that mom has. These type of issues are not just from lack of socialization. A lot of it has to do with her genetics. The same genetics she'll be passing on to her puppies.

With that said... find the pedigree and post it if you could, OFA hips and elbows when the time comes, get involved in showing or trialing and title the dog, and then maybe you may want to start considering breeding her, but I wouldn't even think about it until you've at least done all this stuff.

And money out of the pups? Do the good breeders actually make money on the pups they sell? I'm not a breeder and never will be one, but I was under the impression that the puppy business is a wash at best. I'd also think the good breeders aren't too concerned with the money aspect of breeding though. They do it for other reasons.
 
#26 ·
All of you make a good point.. my husband and I both absolutely love GSD breed but we didn't have the $$ till recently to get our 1st. and we are both really wanting to learn everything we can about them. like with breeding, what to watch out for, what to look for, etc. i would love to put the pup in (maybe?) agility...(if theyre is anything like that close around here) But as i said, i have 0 clue about what her sire/dam, grand-sire/grand-dam, etc.. was or did.. that would pass on those characteristics... if they did.. I've been coming on here everyday to read for HOURS about this amazing breed. And I hope to keep getting more great advice from you guys! :)
 
#30 · (Edited)
I totally agree with MissVette2U. Like everyone else involved in rescue, I've seen beautiful purebred GSDs on the euthanasia list in our shelter because they were bred irresponsibly in a market where too many are breeding them, and there aren't enough good homes for them. I've seen heart-broken dogs who don't understand why their people view them as disposable. It's terribly sad. My small city has had nearly 50 purebred GSDs pass through our tiny shelter this year--that I know of. Someone bred every one of those dogs, and failed them.

I'll go a step further and say this: GOOD breeders insist that dogs get returned to them, rather than dumped at shelters, if adoptions don't work out. That's an enormous commitment. If you aren't willing to make a 15 year commitment to be a safety-net for the litter you bring into the world, please don't do it. There are already way, way too many purebred dogs without safety nets dying at public shelters.

ETA: Enjoy your wonderful, new dog! By all means, get involved in training and activities that are fun for you both. While you are at it, if you find your love of the breed deepening, once your girl mellows out and is better socialized, contact your local GSD rescue and have a conversation about fostering in a couple of years, instead of breeding. You'll have a constant parade of new dogs, sometimes puppies, and save lives in the process. If you do it a few times, I promise that it will give you a deeper understanding of the overbreeding problem -- you'll love the breed a in whole new way!
 
#32 ·
I totally agree with MissVette2U. Like everyone else involved in rescue, I've seen beautiful purebred GSDs on the euthanasia list in our shelter because they were bred irresponsibly in a market where too many are breeding them, and there aren't enough good homes for them. I've seen heart-broken dogs who don't understand why their people view them as disposable. It's terribly sad. My small city has had nearly 50 purebred GSDs pass through our tiny shelter this year--that I know of. Someone bred every one of those dogs, and failed them.

I'll go a step further and say this: GOOD breeders insist that dogs get returned to them, rather than dumped at shelters, if adoptions don't work out. That's an enormous commitment. If you aren't willing to make a 15 year commitment to be a safety-net for the litter you bring into the world, please don't do it. There are already way, way too many purebred dogs without safety nets dying at public shelters.

I totally agree w/ MissVette2U as well. But i dont think we would consider breeding anymore anyway.. seeing that it costs easily $6,000+ just for vet bills BEFORE the pups are born, its not worth it. and it really does tear my heart seeing all these failed dogs... :(
 
#35 ·
The bitch plays a HUGE part in the upbringing of the puppies. Her actions are what the puppies see and start to imitate.
This is a very good point.
We rescued a mama that had just that day given birth to a litter of puppies in a field.
She was very aggressive when we approached her (typical) and I had to get my catch pole to get her out of the woodpile she was in.

She was very aggressive to us for the 1st week or so we had her...as the puppies grew she gradually became less aggressive but didn't lose her 'mistrust' of us. She just wasn't friendly and was pretty shy.

We let the puppies stay with her until 6 weeks of age. Big mistake.
Each and every one has shyness, some moreso than others.
I wish we'd taken them at 4 weeks and handled them daily instead of leaving them with mom, but of course hindsight is 20/20.

And when you get puppies like this they are even tougher to place; luckily they were so freaking cute they all found terrific homes, so did mom (very understanding terrific home) and they actually have get-togethers every so often, so we get pics.

Anyway - that's just one example of how wrong things can go when raising a litter...even with the best of intentions.
 
#36 ·
Not all dog reactivity is from poor breeding. My dog has a nice pedigree of well titled working line dogs but he went through a period of dog reactivity from about 3 months to about 7 months old. He was never reactive towards people though. Always very out going and friendly with everyone he met. As he matured the dog reactivity lessoned and now at 18 months he is BETTER behaved around other dogs than the other dogs that he is around. We also trained through it all and now he has his BH and we are working towards his IPO1.

My suggestion to the OP is to forget about breeding for at least 2 years. Get involved heavily with the breed. Go observe a schutzhund club and watch German Shepherds in action. You will see real differences in dogs right before your eyes. If it interests you, have your dog evaluated and get involved your self. When you start training your own dog, you will learn who your dog is and what she is capable of. If you are not interested in Schuthzund, that is ok, go find another venue and observe German Shepherd dogs in Action. Seeing them in real life, training, performing and often even failing at something will open your eyes to varying aspects of this breed.
 
#37 ·
Completely understandable! really! lol i was just confused because, she was (and still is) completely 100% cool with my grandparents, my one sister, 2 of my brothers, my mom, stepdad, one of our best friends, and my aunt. and that was from the first time she met them. with my one brother and sister, she about wants nothing to do with them. (she shows no aggression, just "nervous" like, actions.. but could it be possible that she can "sense" something, that she just doesn't like in them?? its weird bc the only real people she is REALLY iffy with is people in petstores that just come up to her, and think "oh i can pet this dog, she'll be fine" .. me: "uhhh NO!... this is a GSD.. you NEVER go up to this breed and just touch it if you dont know this dog... or any breed for that matter!!" irritates the crap out of me.. lol
 
#38 ·
Completely understandable! really! lol i was just confused because, she was (and still is) completely 100% cool with my grandparents, my one sister, 2 of my brothers, my mom, stepdad, one of our best friends, and my aunt. and that was from the first time she met them. with my one brother and sister, she about wants nothing to do with them. (she shows no aggression, just "nervous" like, actions.. but could it be possible that she can "sense" something, that she just doesn't like in them?? its weird bc the only real people she is REALLY iffy with is people in petstores that just come up to her, and think "oh i can pet this dog, she'll be fine" .. me: "uhhh NO!... this is a GSD.. you NEVER go up to this breed and just touch it if you dont know this dog... or any breed for that matter!!" irritates the crap out of me.. lol
Being nervous around people concerns me more than being reactive with other dogs. She should be very confident around people. For me this is a key temperament issue to consider when making a breeding decision.
 
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