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Zoey's training

10K views 114 replies 13 participants last post by  Nickyb 
#1 ·
I wanted to dedicate a thread on Zoey's training and progression. If you don't know Zoey, she's my belgium mali/gsd mix rescue that was adopted on 4/29/12 It has been a loonnnngggg road with her and she's been doing great, until the past week or so.

I would like to start by saying she's off to her consultation tomorrow for training, we've been having problems with her nipping and constantly mouthing. She got my buddy in the arm this weekend, i went out to get him during the evening, he was behind me and i bent down to grab her by the collar to push her back and she want right for his arm and ripped his shirt. No blood but it was a fairly hard bite and ripped his sweater, i had him give her two treats when they were both inside and she seemed fine, she's met him before and showered him with kisses in the past. I think this was more of a protective "hey, who the ef are you" type of bite but still, NOT OK to put her mouth on anyone unless i give it the ok.

Also my brother was playing catch with a football with his buddy outside, she was the monkey in the middle and she nipped him in the arse.... I understand how this would set her up to do something wrong in which I told my brother to keep her inside if your going to tease her, but still not ok.

Her progress with dog socialization has stopped because my neighborhood has a few off leash dogs that like to bombard us during our walks.... now when she see's them she goes bezerk where-as before she would heel nicely and ignore most dogs.

The fact that Zoey WILL bite is the scary part, I don't want these nips to get any worse. Even with all these quirks, I still love her to death... I just hope we can fix these issues...

She is set up for tomorrow with Steve @ K-9 Top Performance | The best performance your dog can give.
I plan to enroll her into "K9 camp" where you pay extra but you get more then regular daycare. "K-9 Camp is a more concentrated structured "daycare". Your dog will be trained and socialized with other dogs all throughout the day. We will work on the basic commands that you are working on in obedience, as well as walking on the leash. We spend a lot of time teaching them the proper manners needed for socialization with other dogs and people."

I think this would be a great way to start her road to progress because I just don't have the knowledge in training dogs like I thought I did. I think once a week at k9 camp will be great and then see how she is, whether she needs more training and socialization. I will keep this thread updated
and your thoughts and suggestions are appreciated.

At the end of the day, I will never give this dog up. I gave her up once to try for a better life only to return in worse condition. She is mine forever and I will do what ever it takes.
 
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#29 ·
I am just concerned that Zoey will hurt you or someone else . Sure Maegan can goof around with her, but then it seems like she redirects on you. Since she bites down hard when you let your leg go limp, maybe the pillow trick would work - like when you pushed the pillow down on her. It seems drastic, but she did give up that time you did it . Only when you do it - don't make up to her. Ignore her for about a half hour and it would help if Maegan ignores her also so Zoey can't go to her for sympathy, then give a command - say come or sit - then praise her for doing that. She has to learn that her biting behavior isn't acceptable. Maegan doesn't see this side of Zoey but surely she doesn't want to risk you or anyone else getting hurt. What might help, is if you could discuss this with Steve - he has a family and knows how dogs like Zoey are. Maybe a family training session with just you, Maegan, and Zoey would help. What I wouldn't do is any of the "kissing" with her or any behavior that encourages her to snap. I would play lots of tug with her and after a good struggle let her win and be sure then to really praise her - that is an acceptable outlet for her prey drive. Also she will then associate you with fulfilling her prey drive and that will help her to look up to you.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Thanks Mary, I will go back to the pillow and ignore her when she jumps off the bed. It's easy for me but hard to get the ole ball and chain to follow the rules. Great idea to talk to Steve about this, I will try to tell him in detail what's going on and see what he has to say, he does do in home visits and he only lives a few minutes away from me! I'll be sure to report back after Thursday!

p.s. Just seen the part about tug, that's a great idea since it's been MISERABLE around here lately (freezing rain, slushy snow, torrential downpours) we haven't been getting the usual exercise and have been trying to figure out what to do with her! If only I looked in her bin lol
 
#31 ·
Yes - tug has gotten me through many a blizzard with Sting. In home training visit with Steve - now that sounds great. Won't Zoey be surprised? Looking forward to the update. Good Luck!
 
#32 · (Edited)
Update:
Zoey did great at daycare, I was talking to Steve and he seemed overly excited about it. Further in the conversation, I find out why :) Zoey was actually playing with the other dogs today!!! I think he was just as happy as I was!! He was saying how from the first day he had her, she is excelling extremely fast, faster than he expected and he feels like she'll be able to take the muzzle off soon.

He was also talking about her obedience and how well and quickly she learns. I figured this since we work and practice this everyday, but nice to hear that she's good in other hands.

We were walking out of the place and there was another dog that we were going to pass by, Zoey obviously got excited but I gave her a quick correction (she gets extremely excited when I first get there), looked up at me and we strolled on by, no issues. :wild: In the past, she would go bonkers, not necessarily being aggressive but needing to go to the other dog.

The stress levels are going down tremendously, I think she's really starting to come around. The big test is how she'll do with everyone over the Holiday's. I have a lot of faith in her although I'll keep a close watch as well. Also figured I'd throw a couple of recent pictures of her that i finally got around to editing.

Happy Holidays!!!!

Snuggling with mom and dad






This one came out pretty dark when I uploaded so it still needs some work.



aaaaaand her and her momma! ... pillow in the background is torn since Zoey thought there was a dragon in there, crazy girl.:wild:






p.s......... We've been playing tug a TON since the weather has been crappy, and it's night and day with her energy level. She didn't really like it before but since I've been persuading her more, she can't get enough of it.
 
#33 ·
Lovely photos - especially the one of your 2 beautiful ladies. Wonderful Zoey did well at day care and is settling in with the other dogs. Yes - pillows and related items are irresistible. My Sting destroyed 2 cat beds but fortunately not the cat:) The holidays will be exciting and like kids, dogs can get hyper and overtired. You may want to give Zoey timeouts and quiet time in her crate with a favorite toy or chew bone. Hopefully the weather will break so she can go outside. My Sting likes to take a victory lap when he wins tug - then when he brings it to me, I give him a treat in exchange. Zoey has truly come a long way so with your care.
 
#34 ·
Zoey says Happy Holidays!!!!!


First we'll start with the family over for the Holidays. Zoey did fantastic, even with a 6 year old being a spaz. She's met everyone before that came over and was very sweet with everyone. My aunt loves dogs and she had Zoey lick her face for a good 5 minutes, my Grampy called her up on a couch (even though she knows not to) and she laid down and cuddled him with her head on his lap, and my uncle called her up and she petted her for a solid 15 minutes and she lick his face numerous times. Everything went great until she did her usual licking and then a teeth snap which made people go whoa. I love the fact that she showed her sweet side to everyone but I HATE HATE HATE when she does that she snaps her teeth, its not her being aggressive, its her licking your face, or going to lick your face and snap her teeth. I'm seriously considering an E-collar just for that. Thoughts?

Zoey did get a timeout because of my 6 year old cousin. I'll just say he's a bit of a spaz that doesn't listen and he brought his foam sword over. Even though I got Zoey used to foreign objects being waved over head, I still stressed out about him because he kept wanting to whack her with the foam sword. After telling him no a billion times, I put her in the mudroom with her bed because I didn't want to set her up to fail. After about 20 minutes, she came back in and he finally left her alone... phew.

Now onto k9-camp. When I walked in, I was immediately told to see one of the girls and ask for the video, hmm weird but ill bite. I walk over to her and she has Zoey on film............... playing with another dog!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOO It was awesome to see this, Zoey's came a long way and to finally see some progression is awesome. It was a big male GSD and she would just get low, and bounce up and hop around him like a bunny rabbit, I've never seen that side of her but it was great. The leash was loose, she was relaxed just having fun like a dog should. I'll try to get them to send me the video to share.
 
#35 ·
Congrats on the progress! It should definitely make you feel a lot better about the future of Zoey!

I'm no trainer, but as far as the nipping while licking, try to find a way to let Zoey know that this brings us pain and is not an appropriate behavior. They don't quite understand that IMO. Dogs play differently than we do. I have a chocolate lab that went through this problem, and she was a BIG licker. Each time she would do it, I would stop the licking and tell her NO. If she persisted then I would roll her lip under her teeth and slightly apply pressure until she made the correlation between the nipping and the pain it caused. Much like getting a puppy to drop something they shouldn't have in their mouth. Just not too hard though. It took a week or two if I remember correctly.
 
#36 ·
Do you have site or posting with lots of photos of Zoey? I'm really interested in what a GSD/Mal cross looks like. From the pix you posted here, she seems to have a more wedge shaped head, closer coat and maybe slightly smaller ears??? I'd really love to see more of her.
 
#37 ·
Zoey sure looks happy with all her presents. Wonderful she did well over the holidays. It seems to me with the licking then snap - it happens when she gets all wound up. I wouldn't use a shock collar or prong collar corrections for that as I doubt she would make the connection and may even relate it to the person she was licking. What I would do, is no licking and I would teach her to "shake hands" instead. Even then it would be just one shake. If you want to allow the licking, just let her give someone a quick lick - then right away that's enough - and have her sit by you and give her a chew toy to mouth. You could keep a squeaky toy in your pocket and use that especially if you make it squeak. It would be like redirecting her. When my Sting gets excited, he will go grab his bear and make it squeak.
 
#38 · (Edited)
Get a huge bone like the monster ones that are a few feet long or just a nice filled smoked bone she needs a replacement , and sounds like she likes things nearly her own size, when she bites on your leg say your "NO" command and redirect her toward the huge bone so she understands its ok to bite on something but has to know what is ok to bite on , that is not humans. Worked for me so I just figured I could share . Good luck
 
#39 ·
Thanks everyone for the comments. I've been redirecting her with her new kong wubba and she seem's to be getting the hint. She's been mouthing ALOT less now that I've been spending more time with her and correcting her on her bad behavior immediately.

Marnie- I find Zoey's look changes based on the expression on her face. It's crazy but at time's she looks 100% Mali, others 100% GSD and most time 50/50. You can find my flickr account here (which i've been using more often)
Flickr: NickyB21's Photostream

and some past photos here
luda42688's Library | Photobucket
 
#40 ·
Update:

Zoey was unable to go to k9 camp on Thursday , simply because my alarm never went off at 5am and i had to rush out the door for work! No worries, we just got back from basic obedience class today and she did phenomenal. She hit all of her commands down perfectly which i figured would be the case, but the biggest thing Steve wanted me there was to practice with her around other dogs, this class had 8 others. He warned me that since it was basic, most people don't have 100% control of there dogs but for the most part, everyone was very nice and respectable around everyone else's dog. Steve recommended a few more classes just to practice her around other dogs, and then well go to the more advanced classes. Im thinking about continue the training, and do k9 camp every other week, or vise versa. Really havent decided yet.
 
#42 ·
Lovely photo of Zoey. She is turning out to be an the A+ student:) Happy it went well for you and her in class. If you can, it might be better to continue the K9 camp as you've done and the also the classes. I know it seems like a lot, but at K9 camp she gets play time with other dogs and exercise. At class she needs to concentate on you and obey. It seems the two different activities work together to help her socialization.
 
#43 ·
Thanks Mary Beth, I do plan to continue with training her and have her in K9 camp. The only problem is that doing it twice a week will start to take its toll on my wallet when added to all my other bills. The good thing is that when she gets to the higher classes, they are actually cheaper 8 for $200 rather then 6 for $200, so 25 bucks per class rather then $35, doesn't seem like a lot but when added with her other costs such as her sensitive stomach blue buffalo, flea/tick meds etc etc etc...

We did have a mis-hap Saturday night though :( Let me know your thoughts, I have my own but I'll save them for after.

We had everyone over for dinner including my mothers fiance's family (his sister and his brother's family came over) I kept Zoey down stairs for most of the night since his brothers had small kids and although she's good around kids, I didn't want anything to happen since I couldn't supervise 100%. The situation happened after the kids left. Zoey came up and was completely fine with everyone, my mother, her fiance, his sister (We'll call her "The sister"), my best friend and his gf, my grampy and a few others. I was telling everybody about Zoey multiple times throughout the night about how she was and how far she's came, also including her air snaps when you want her to kiss your face. I said this at LEAST 15 times and some people just don't listen.
I turned my back to throw something away when i heard "ohhh Zoey up here come up" wait, what? I turn around to see Zoey up on "The sister's" chest licking her in the face, before I could say Zoey get down she air snapped her in the cheek. WTF you got to be F'kin kidding me. "The sister" didn't have a single mark on her face, nor a scratch but she kept saying "omg she just bite me in the face" "am I bleeding" "she just bite me" I'm going to go the bathroom to see how bad this is, ugh"

Ok, I know Zoey was in the wrong but she was set up for failure, we've been trying to break her from this and she's been better, but she's not 100% I told this lady 100 times through out the night specifically about her doing that and she calls her up and ask's for it, and then freaks out when it happens? I'm trying to socialize Zoey around new people and strangers, and she's been doing fantastic! It's situations like this that make me feel when we take 1 step forward, we get pushed 10 steps back.

About the "bite"- It was exactly how she does it to my gf and I when we ask for kisses, every single time she does indeed make teeth-to-skin contact, she doesn't press down and actually stops everything all together. I don't know if she freaked out about the contact or if it was the actual snap noise when she doesn't make contact with anything.

Thoughts?
 
#44 ·
That's a shame - and Zoey gets the blame instead of the human adult who should have known better. The Sister wasn't listening to you or thought she knew better, and nothing would happen. Unfortunately The Sister by her actions got the air bite. And The Sister is not going to admit that instead she will spread the story that Zoey tried to bite her face. This could have been much worse if The Sister were a child. So the way to prevent it from happening again because you have to protect Zoey is to be as careful with her around adults as you are around children. If I were you, I would start a "no kissing - no touching with Zoey " Rule (you could call it the NKNT Rule) with everyone (adults & children) who comes to visit you or when you go to visit. I would also keep Zoey by me - on her leash on heel and she can be on the down/stay or sit/stay. I would keep treats and her favorite toy in my pockets to reward her for her good behavior. I would explain that she is in training and this is part of her advanced obedience work. As you work on the heeling and as she sits whenever you stop that will look impressive. And I would use hand signals, that way you can talk with your guests at the same time. I would also limit the contact time - Zoey can greet the guests (sitting by your side) , but then she needs to have her crate time with a favorite chew toy. I would also be sure to exercise and play with Zoey before the guests arrive. I would also send some flowers to The Sister from Zoey with a note saying that she is very sorry and never meant to cause her distress.
 
#45 ·
Thanks Mary, that's exactly how I feel and I'm sure she'll be spreading the story around. That is a great idea and I'll be implementing that asap! The NKNT rule will be hard, Maegan LOVES when Zoey jumps up and kisses her, so does my mother and my brother, I admit I do too. It seems to only happen when we are standing up because when I call her up on my bed for a snuggle, she'll be nose to nose to me and only lick, never once air bit. From now on, she'll be on a leash when there's guests right by my side, her obedience is great so i have no worries and when she starts getting ancy, she has a bed in the mudroom with a couple of toys.


As a side note, my Grampy is her new best friend? From her first encounter, barking at the sight of him viciously, him being the perfect profile that triggered her aggression, even his voice, to now....It's just night and day! He'll even walk in the door unannounced, she'll get up and be just as excited to see him as she would after I got home from work lol
 
#46 ·
That's great she is doing so well with Grampy. It shows how much progress she has made. I know it is hard for Maegan as it was for The Sister to realize how wound up Zoey can get and then she either air bites or redirects against you. Would teaching Zoey tricks help? Like shake hands, roll over, speak, and so on. There are threads on that. At least that way Maegan could do other things with her and she could also show off for the guests.
 
#47 ·
Zoey does indeed know a lot of tricks and picks them up fairly quickly. She knows paw (shake hands) roll over, sit, down, pretty girl (she sits on her butt with her paws in the air) and a few others. We've been working on speak, she gets it but tries to air snap first lol. Running out of ideas but going to start doing some research on new ones.
 
#48 ·
That's great - she has already learned some. It looks like the speak wouldn't work. But if she shakes hands without any air snapping and will do it with others, that may be a good trick to substitute for the kissing. If she likes to play fetch, there are soft type balls that can be used indoors. That way she has activities she can do with her guests that will show her at her best behavior and hopefully keep the guests on theirs :)
 
#49 ·
I tried to push speak a little bit and it back fired out me lol Now all zoey wants to do is yap yap yap, bark bark bark. WE'll nip that in the butt, no worries but I do need some help with something.

The car...... I've done a lot of work with her when it comes to her being in the car, she used to be extremely aggressive with any passer bys and especially dogs. Now she ignores anyone, of course unless they come to the car, and other dogs walking. So far so good. My biggest issue is when I leave the car she gets some serious anxiety. I have a pretty nice car with leather interior and when I left her once to run in the store real quick, all i could see is a ball of fur basically flyballing of my dash and back seat. I'd love to bring her everywhere with me and socialize her with the world! Even if it's just bringing her with me on a couple of errands, i still would much rather have her with me then home alone. I don't think a kong would be much help because she freaks out, I could just leave her there till she settles down but there goes my interior.

I'm going to start by just getting her used to being alone in the car and praising her when she's calm... start with 1 minute, 2 mins, 3 mins etc outside of the car, then maybe run inside for a second and make it longer. Any other tips or tricks?
 
#50 ·
My Husky who was wonderful in the car, except when I first got her, she wanted to be in the driver's seat. She was fine about staying in the backseat where I had it covered with towels when I was there - but left alone - she promptly climbed into the driver's seat - leaving all her husky fur and muddy paw prints for me to return sit on. So your idea of getting her used to it slowly for short periods of time sounds great. Be sure to leave the windows open a bit for air - in her seat area. What I did with my Husky, was to give her the down/stay command. I would leave the car and walk away, and go inside where I could see her - when she would promptly climb over - I would dash out and say "no - go down, now!" then I would go back inside - and when I saw she had settled - I would go back to the car and reward her - I was consistent, and she did learn about trying 6 times. Your other options that I can think of are : 1. to crate her - if the crate will fit 2. get a dog grate barrier that blocks access to the front seast 3. use a dog car harness - it attaches to the seat belt latch and keeps the dog in the back seat - I used one for my Aussie - who was terrible in the car - back and forth - and it did help settle him down.
 
#51 ·
Thanks Mary, I would love to put a crate in there, except I have a 4 door sedan and not only wouldn't it fit, it would damage my leather seats. My only concern with having her tethered to a seat, she would most likely hurt herself. I honestly don't mind if she's waiting for me in the drivers seat, as long as she's sitting or laying down and not tearing apart my car. Once we start taking her on errands with us, I'm going to bring Maegan and have her wait in the car with Zoey at first, so she can correct her if need be.

We have K9 camp scheduled for tomorrow and training on Saturday. Maegan will be coming with on Saturday so hopefully I can snap some decent pictures and maybe some video of Zoey in action!
 
#52 ·
Update:

No video today, Zoey only played with a few dogs for a short time and mostly kept to herself just sniffing butts and just hanging out. She did however do something I'm very proud of. A fight broke out while she was being handled by one of the staff members (two different dogs, Zoey wasn't involved) and he rushed in to break it up as well as a few others. While this caused a lot of commotion among the other dogs, Zoey just sat and did nothing. I WILL have pictures and possibly some video on Saturday since Maegan will be joining me.
 
#53 ·
Yes, you have every right to be proud of Zoey! That is so wonderful - and what an achievement on her part. All the costs of training and camp is certainly money well spent. Looking forward to the video. Great that Maegan is going with you and Zoey on Saturday.
 
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