German Shepherds Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

My new dog is on his way from Germany!

19K views 178 replies 51 participants last post by  JeanKBBMMMAAN 
#1 ·
I posted on here a couple weeks ago about wanting to find a dog thoroughly trained in obedience and protection and after 2 weeks of waiting for the breeders to "test" the dog into what I wanted we have found the ONE and he is on his way.

Shipping all the way from Germany to Texas here is Dino.









And this is his breeding..

The Father is : Arras vom Schwartenzwinger Schutzhund 3 , IPO 3 FH, FCI, 2 times DJJM , German BSP !!!!!!

The Mother is: Echidna vom Halleys schen komet Schutzhund 3 KKL 1 SG


Any insight or information more into my dog for those of you who are "educated" would be great! I know NOTHING about breeding and am curious about his bloodlines. Also thoughts on the video would be great too!

THank you!!!
 
See less See more
#3 · (Edited)
That is not a finished dog. From your description, you wanted a finished dog that is extremely obedient. He does not appear to be ready for the IPO1 yet, not even ready for the BH.

Did you see his downs? Sits? Stand stay? Long down? Did you see how he is in public? Within traffic? With other people? Or is this all you got?
 
#4 ·
"I know NOTHING about breeding and am curious about his bloodlines"

A little late to be asking about this isn't it?

I would assume that you have already inquired and found out all you needed to know about your new dog before you bought him, no?

Or at least had someone you know and trust tell you about him?
 
#172 ·
No...it's not about being rude. It's telling the truth, which of course, to some, is "hate".

From MrsK early on.
That is not a finished dog. From your description, you wanted a finished dog that is extremely obedient. He does not appear to be ready for the IPO1 yet, not even ready for the BH.
When people tried to explain, things got ugly.
And that comes from telling people things they don't want to hear.

The dog is handsome, the dog seems nice so far, and hopefully will continue to be as it settles in, keeping in mind it takes a few weeks to a month or more for dogs to truly "settle in" so you start seeing their true personalities.

If advising the OP that they really don't want their brand new GSD to "fight back" or "teach the Chi his place" is wrong and rude, then I guess I'm wrong and rude.

I've seen dogs injured severely by dogs their own size during a fight.
To wish a GSD would fight back against a dog under 10lbs...makes me wonder if that person just really wants the Chi to die (?) or perhaps they don't understand that even a nip, to a dog that size from a GSD could be fatal.
 
#5 ·
Hi KL - is this your first protection trained GSD? How old is Dino? Videos like this look very impressive to a newbie but it doesn't show the whole dog. The obedience he is showing in the videos is very basic for a protection dog. how is Dino's obedience off leash, in public, around other dogs, people, kids, busy places? Can he hold a down stay in a distracting environment? Can he be running after a ball and hit the dirt instantly when told to stop and down? So far his protection training is barking at someone with a sleeve and outing on command - he does both things well, but as Mrs.K said, this is beginner work, and he is working in prey drive - a state of excitement and play, which is fine for starting a young dog - but the test of being protective comes out later when the dog is older, more mature, and the decoy knows how to test a dog with real psychological pressure.

If you like this dog, have plans to continue his training yourself, understand that these videos do not show the whole dog, then great, enjoy him (he does not look ready for off-leash obedience, for example - I just hope you understand what these videos are showing, or not showing)! More important for you to have a dog that you can live with, not so much how well he does in bite training or well he heels when there is a ball lure and no distractions, but how excitable is he in everyday life? how does he settle in the house, how does he do being walked on leash in public around other dogs and distractions, how is he around small animals like cats, and how much has he been socialized and exposed to the real world in general.
 
#7 ·
I know little about protection training as I do not do it but frome watching the vids and seeing other dogs thoroughly trained in protection, this guy is not fully trained.

I think as long as you know that and plan on continiuning to train with him (you should!) then you will have fun and end up with a really nice dog. And if Schutzhund ends up not being to your liking consider AKC obedience or agility.
 
#8 ·
dbrk9, do you have a club lined up to train with?
I agree, this pup and you need to keep on keeping on! He is still quite young?
 
#10 ·
I'd be very curious how you came upon this dog and why he is "the ONE". Seems like a decent enough young green dog, but he is very far from being "thoroughly trained in obedience and protection".

These videos show foundation work with a young dog, and nothing more. The protection is prey based with no seriousness to it whatsoever. He'll bite a sleeve sure, but that is not true protection. It is a game. The obedience is clearly unfinished and looks to be no where near ready for off lead work in the real world full of people, cars, dogs and other distractions when the handler isn't using a ball as a lure to keep the dog paying attention and working.

I see a young dog with some good potential and decent foundation work, but a LOT more training would be required to be able to consider this dog "thoroughly trained" in either aspect, and very different training would be required if you want true protection rather than playing tug with a sleeve.
 
#12 ·
Handler and dog should be a team, yes. Some handlers also do their own helperwork out of necessity and just plain lack of other helpers. But it is far from ideal. A dog cannot work seriously on his own handler, nor should the handler be putting the sort of pressure on his own dog that would tap into that serious side. The handler can play a game with his own dog, which is all that is happening in this video.

One absolutely cannot test a dog's strength, courage, protective instinct or willingness and ability to engage for real rather than play with a sleeve when it's the handler working his own dog.

Despite the titles of the videos there is no testing of courage or stick stress actually going on here, it's all play. The one time when the handler is away from the sleeve flicking the whip at the dog, you can see the stress and confusion in the dog because he doesn't understand what is going on or how to respond.
 
#14 ·
OP- I am not sure what you are expecting when the dog gets there. But I hope you can return the dog and get your money back if he is not what your hoping for. I am new here, but he really looks like he still needs A LOT of work. Maybe you changed your mind, and are willing to train with your dog, which would be fantastic. But if not, I am afraid you are going to be really disappointed when he arrives.

Also, I would post a thread on what you should do or don't do when he arrives. For example, is a 2 week shut down appropriate? I can't remember if you posted his age. My GSD really has no interest in anyone except me, her handler. Unless they are kids, if someone comes to pet her she is pretty much neutral. She doesn't care either way. and if they ask her to sit, she looks at me and waits for me to tell her what to do. She won't listen to them. Even for a treat. This is not something I trained, it just is how she is naturally. I just don't see this dog arriving and being ready to listen to you give him commands. I hope you have a trainer/club set up to work with.
 
#15 ·
KLZ, I know you don't want to hear all these things. Especially when you just bought a new dog.

I am from Germany. I come from a family of successful breeders so I grew up with the breeding, titling and selling business in Germany.

I don't think these people have been dishonest. They showed you exactly what this dog is. GREEN with some foundation work.

To be absolutely honest, I don't understand why it had to be imported from Germany. You have some really good breeders and trainers in Texas. I've been to the Schutzhund Club in Austin and you would have been better off in going there, talk to the helper and the people (if you are close) and see if they can hook you up.
The west German working line dogs in the US come from the best possible stock you could have bought in Germany.
The Americans have done a great job in importing the creme de la creme out of Germany, they have done their homework. Many breeders, like Chris Wild, know what they are doing. They have produced excellent dogs that are just as good, sometimes even better, than the ones you get out of Germany. If you want a real dog, you can get that dog in the US and you can look at that dog yourself and see it with your own eyes. The only thing you can't say is that you bought that dog in Germany.
Sadly, in your case, it seems to be that one important thing. That you have imported that dog.

Since you bought that dog, and you were able to afford up to 12k for it, I doubt you'll have any issue to join a club, put in the time it needs to keep training and turn the dog into the dog you want him to be.

Here is the South Central Region. Go to clubs and you will find a list of Clubs in Texas.
www.southcentralregion.com

IF you are anywhere near Austin, I can only recommend the Austin Schutzhund Club. It is a great bunch of people and the helper says it the way it is. He knows what he's doing and will not BS you.

Again, I know that these are probably not the things you want to hear. Your "Bueller Bueller Bueller" reaction made that very clear, but it needs to be said.
 
#18 · (Edited)
To answer everyone's questions I bought Dino as a personal family dog, we are not looking to do any competitions or tests. I show horses competitively and I would not have time to do that with Dino. I do have other videos of his obedience of him sitting/staying and laying/staying while the trainer walks away and he does not move until she calls him (off leash). It took this breeder 2 weeks to get back to me with a dog that they thought would fit the mold. I was told that his commands are sharp and on key and he is good with children and small dogs. Put through various tests to make sure of it and taken in public around large groups of people. I also called many of his references.

Dino just turned 2 in November. I told ____ exactly what I was looking for over the phone and Dino is what he came up with over testing 6 different dogs to make sure he was the right fit. If I do have an issue with the dog I will send him back but he has a lot of positive feedback and I don't think I will be disappointed. Remember I am look for a family dog that will be on guard if only we are in danger and listens well. Something that my 2 chihuahuas are not capable of doing.

EDIT: my "bueller bueller bueller" comment was not meant to be rude, I was referencing the movie because no one had commented on my thread.



One more thing. I called a lot of US breeders before I called the one in Germany and I was not comfortable with any of them nor did they seem okay with the fact that I had a child and other dogs. Their starting price for the GSD was about 10K and that is what my friend here in TX who also has a GSD ended up paying for his so I figured that was about the standard rate for what I was looking for. Give me a second and I will upload some of his obedience training.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Foundation work. That's all it is.

If you translate it into Horse training... not a horse you would put a child on, yet because it's still to green. You still sit in a light sit, slightly leaning forward, giving the horse a lot of help. You start taking it out into public and you get ready for the first "young horse" show but nowhere near ready for competition level training or a horse that you can rely on in public places yet.

This is a dog that is just beginning to learn, he still needs the help of his stimuli which is the ball. Wait until you get that dog, have him for two weeks and then see how good his commands will be, without any kind of continuing training. It'll be mediocre at best, if he responds at all. That is why everyone is says that you will have to continue to work him. Make it solid. Not for competition but as a pet owner. You have a dog that has a nice starting and that is promising to be a good pet, but you will have to put more work into it. It's not a finished dog.
 
#20 ·
You have already made the decision so you are less likely to be receptive to our advice and criticism. You have decided that this is the right way to go with little experience or background in this field. But you have several people experienced in this field telling you what they clearly see. It's fine. This type of thing happens all the time. The truth is you can find a perfectly nice PP dog with the level of training that dog has here in the US for less than 10k. I'm sure he is a very nice dog, but nowhere near what you think he is at this stage.

You will need to attend training and put work into this dog. You cannot expect him to come off the plane ready to protect and guard your family like a true PP dog. That is the truth. Regardless of whether you wish to trial or show him, you will need to put training and work into him. That's the plain fact.
 
#22 ·
If you don't have the time to invest in working with him to bring out his potential...you will be doing a disservice to the dog. He still has a puppy brain at two! Please find a club to work with you on this.
 
#23 ·
Klz, your family sounds like mine. My family used to be heavily involved in competition with dogs but then us kids got into competing with the horses. Both my sisters are professionals in dressage and jumping. My sister earned the golden award for winning ten S-dressages and S-jumping competition. And my other sister is a very succesful trainer whose studends were at thr regionals and nationals in youth competitions. My little sister took over my parents horse farm and runs the business now. I do realize that you cannot do both. If you are seriously involved with horses, yes there is no time outside the sport. I know that best since I have seen the transition.

Dino, however is a young dog. Like Chris said, he has a decent foundation but there is a difference of a dog being reliable on the field and a dog being reliable in every day life.

I do hope that he is the dog you are looking for. I would advise to get a trainer and to continue to train so you learn how to handle the dog. Think of it as buying a new, green horse that is somewhat broken and at an E-A level but you want to compete at an M and S level. You cannot get there without a trainer.


Now this dog will be a family dog. Since you are a competitor I understand that you don't want anything less than perfection. You wouldn't let you daughter ride into the woods with an unreliable horse. Test the dog yourself. Get a trainer, check the dog like you would check a horse and then make your decision. Buying such a dog is no less of a hassle than buying a competition horse. Put the same care of selection into it than you would with a horse.
 
#26 ·
One thing we stress to our clients is that a dog (especially a green dog as in the video) is not trained, he is started. The skills need to be continually worked. Without work, not only won't those basic skills improve, they will deteriorate and/or disappear altogether. Being a horse person, this is probably not new to you, but with a prey animal (a horse) the mind set is vastly different from a predatory animal (a dog, especially a herding/working type dog). The dog needs further input and training to help him understand the big picture, when to protect, when to obey, etc.
He looks like a nice boy, find a club and continue his training, you won't regret it I'm sure :).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top