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Trying to buy a GS and Breeder nightmares

11K views 73 replies 27 participants last post by  CassandGunnar 
#1 · (Edited)
I had a horrible experience just recently with a breeder who had puppies for sale. She sounded at first like she was responsible when it came to guarantees for health, hips, etc.
However, after the hour long drive to her home, the first thing I see is a seriously run down home that housed the puppies. (not people, as the home she lived in was a half mile further down the road)) Ice was literally on the inside of the windows which she scraped off so I could view the parents out back. FILTHY conditions. She didn't believe in feeding the puppies certain amounts throughout the day, but PURINA PUPPY CHOW in a large bowl so they could freely eat whenever they liked. The food was spilled in the stools and urine. No pedigree to be shown to me about the parents. No OFA proof. Puppies had white tips on their tails, some white streaks on their backs, most all paws were white, white spot on chest and chin. These were black and tan pups. They JUST turned 7 weeks (not told to me during the phone call, just that they were ready to go to a home) and out of a litter of 6, 2 were remaining. Then I heard, "You seem like you can afford it, why don't you just buy the last 2 here?" I stood there with my jaw dropped. Then she proceeded to tell me that if I wanted to breed, they would cost 400.00. If not, then it would be a limited registration and then the pup would cost 300.00. I remarked that even though I do not know a whole lot in regards to the German Shepherd standard, I did believe that the white markings were not smiled upon by breeders. So, I strongly believed that if anyone bought one of these pups it should only be limited. Her words were "Oh, I do not think that is my place to tell a potential owner that they couldn't breed their pup" OH MY! Since then, I have spoken to 4 other GSD breeders where all of them didn't even understand what I meant by OFA. One guy's ad read that his pups were from Champion bloodlines. Yeah, it was ONE champion in a 5 generation pedigree, AND the champion being 4 generations back. He said (and I quote) "Since this is a top notch pedigree that is why they are selling for 500.00 instead of 300.00.
Someone please help me here. I am on an acre of land which is fenced in with a privacy fence. No other dogs, no cats. My husband and I are 51 yrs old. All kids are grown. No, I am not going to show nor breed. However, if you have a puppy, or even an older GS, please, we would love to give it a good home. However, I REFUSE to pay some backwoods breeder who is clearly about making a dollar and has no interest whatsoever in bettering the breed. We are in WV and definitely can afford to take care of a dog through sickness and health. I also see price ranges from 150.00 (yes, THAT LOW!) to 4,000. What is a normal price for a good looking, healthy pet GSD?
Thank you in advance all. :)
ALSO..I am willing to drive up to 400 miles to meet you and vice versa.
 
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#2 ·
I would have turned in the first breeder to AC:( How sad.

I don't know where you've been looking for a dog, but it's obvious that you've been running into some real doozies:(

You've come to the right place:) There are many breeders here and can be referenced via this forum.

I have to give you credit for walking away from the first one, such sad conditions can really tug on our heart strings:(..

I'm sure you will get some GOOD referrals from here.
You can find a dog from a responsible breeder anywhere from 900 up.

The average seems to be around 1200-1500.

Stick around and check back, as I said I'm sure someone can offer some referrals in your area..

West Virginia right?:)
And welcome to the board
 
#17 ·
I would have turned in the first breeder to AC:( How sad.

For what? For feeding puppy chow?

For living outside? For being dirty?

You must have never seen hunting dogs in the south.

So he didn't like the breeder and didn't buy from them. You better be careful about what want legislated. After the HSUS put up guidelines about what to look for in dog fighters (flirt poles, spring poles, treadmills) a lot of good breeders were questioned and even some were charged. If you google you can find some info about people that overzealous AC arrested and charged with Animal cruelty and were then found not guilty (after having their dogs destroyed).
 
#3 · (Edited)
Welcome EMarie59.
Good for you to not support that breeder. Have you read the sticky in this forum http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html
Depending on the lines the price varies...showlines tend to run higher average $2000 Working lines $1000-2000 ballpark
What lines are you interested in and where is your location? There are many great breeders who don't take advantage of people and breed responsibly. Members here can point you in the right direction with a bit more info on what you are looking for in your next companion.
 
#6 ·
Welcome EMarie59.
Good for you to not support that breeder. Have you read the sticky in this forum http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html
Depending on the lines the price varies...showlines tend to run higher average $2000 Working lines $1000-2000 ballpark
What lines are you interested in and where is your location? There are many great breeders who don't take advantage of people and breed responsibly. Members here can point you in the right direction with a bit more info on what you are looking for in your next companion.
Thanks, going to read it now...
 
#4 ·
Something I do have to say is, though it must have been hard, GOOD FOR YOU for NOT supporting this person! While somebody may buy those puppies, it is absolutely the best thing that you did NOT!
 
#5 ·
I have no problem paying in the price ranges just given nor travelling up to 400 miles to meet a breeder. This is going to be a long time commitment between me, my husband and the dog we ultimately get, so I am not in a hurry to just pick the first one I see.
I AM by the way, reporting this breeder I had met with. I almost wanted to buy the pups just to get them out of there! They were so skittish too. I even sat on the disgusting floor and lowered my head down to them so they wouldn't feel so intimidated and come up to me. I am guessing it was a ZERO in regards to socialization having been done. Then I really started freaking out after talking to the next ones in line selling puppies. Can't the AKC get involved someway as to investigate breeders reported so they can't ever get litters registered again? That would help stop this.
Anyways, I am thinking about contacting the GSC and maybe getting information from them in regards to breeders, training in the area, etc. I would DEFINITELY get involved with obedience training, etc. I am in the southeast part of WV
 
#7 · (Edited)
We had our beloved Duchess for 16 years (Labrador) who "went to sleep" about 2 years ago.
I learned a lotwhen we had gotten her, OR I should say AFTER we bought her. We had driven to CT to a supposed well known and respected breeder. BALONEY! She paid for articles to be written about her in dog books. She actually only had 2 champions, and 1 of which finished at a very young age that she kept hush hush about when he turned 2 due to that he had dysplasia. She was studding him out everywhere.
How do I know this? Duchess was one of his offspring and from a Dam she owned as well. (whose hips were fair)
Duchess's hips were so bad at a year old we paid $2500.00 to have them fixed. This surgeon was spectacular as you never knew anything had been done. It was worth the money spent to see her happy and running again.
SO! The reason why I ask many questions now to a breeder. I don't know. Maybe we should go to a GS rescue organization?
 
#8 ·
rescue is DEFINATELY a good possibility..check out the rescue forum here on the board.

I'm sorry about Duchess:( so sad, there are some whacky lab breeders around here, my sister is the 'lab' person in the family, tho she just lost her two old girls, one at 15 and one at 13:( Anyhow, I used to go to some of the lab shows around here, and yeppie, some unscrupulous ones for sure:(

Rescue is definately something worth looking into, going with a reputable one, you'll get a really good idea of what the dog/puppy is and health as well.
 
#9 ·
You don't say where in WV you're located so I'm not sure if this is within your 400 mile radius or not.

If you don't mind a WGSD, I got my girl Faith from a breeder in Mercersburg, PA. She's a really cool dog, good temperament, knock on wood ... so far she's been healthy, and IMHO she's beautiful ... I just adore her. :wub:

I've known one of her breeders for almost 30 years and the co-breeder for about 8 years (more or less).
Welcome to Sugarloaf Shepherds - Championship German Shepherd Dogs of White Coat Color

Here's a picture taken of Faith when she was a puppy before Barb gave her to me:
White German Shepherd Dog Club of America, Inc. || Pedigrees || Vantasia's Beyond The Rainbow To Sugarloaf
 
#23 ·
Jax,

I am definitely considering a rescue organization. I know that somewhere, there is a GS just waiting to pick us. :)




EMarie - have you considered a rescue? From your description of your home, I can't imagine one would turn you down. You can find a young dog through any of them.
 
#11 ·
sent you a PM regarding some older pups/young adults available - from another board member - she would probably do some driving to meet you if it would work for you...

Lee
 
#12 ·
and to add, Lee above is a breeder you can trust:))
 
#13 ·
Thanks! ** Removed by Admin. No, advertising isn't allowed**

Hope this is allowed!

Lee
 
#15 ·
I tried to report a breeder to AKC and even though my dog from that breeder is registered with AKC, they (AKC) told me that they do not monitor or sanction individual breeders, so having the papers does not mean AKC will get involved. I tried to report the breeder to AKC for breeding unhealthy dogs and they were no help at all. So be careful, papers do not mean you have recourse if the dog has problems. Be careful and best of luck finding the right dog for you.
 
#18 ·
Well if we all just turn a blind eye on cruelty would that be better? Really???
I would alert authorities if I saw what I thought was neglect or abuse.
And if this litter is getting no socialization will they end up in a shelter or euth'd because they are fearful nervebags? Sorry but we have to be a voice for the ones that can't speak.

I agree, the rights of responsible breeders will be taken away with unfair laws, but that shouldn't stop someone from reporting a neglectful horrible environmental breeder situation.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Where in the post did you think they were in an situation covered by "Animal Cruelty"?

Mostly unless you see someone actually abusing an animal or they are living in unlivable conditions then you should mind your own business. I keep dogs in (clean) kennels, some people think that's crulety. Some people think 8 hours in a crate is cruel. Some people find prong collars cruel. Just because you don't approve of how someone raises their animals doesn't mean it falls under the realm of Animal Cruelty. Once again if what the Op describes bothers you, you should head to southern VA and see how they keep beagles.

And lack of socialization doesn't create "nerve bags". But that's for another thread.
 
#21 ·
Some people think 8 hours in a crate is cruel. Some people find prong collars cruel. Just because you don't approve of how someone raises their animals doesn't mean it falls under the realm of Animal Cruelty. Once again if what the Op describes bothers you, you should head to southern VA and see how they keep beagles.
I believe the point of a forum like this is to post opinions. You are correct, "some people" find prongs, crates etc etc cruel. "Some people" found the state those puppies were in cruel. Just because it's acceptable behavior to one person/area (referring to the hunting dogs) does not mean that everyone MUST accept it in their area - or travel somewhere else to be exposed to other things they might see as cruel... Each person needs to decide what is right or wrong for them and then live by that. Obviously some people on this thread do not agree with you, I don't understand why that is a problem. Nor is this discussion anything to do with the OP, who was asking about other avenues to get a pup from...
 
#20 ·
I almost wanted to buy the pups just to get them out of there! They were so skittish too. I even sat on the disgusting floor and lowered my head down to them so they wouldn't feel so intimidated and come up to me. I am guessing it was a ZERO in regards to socialization having been done.
So these dogs will grow up with a sound temperament, I wish...
 
#29 · (Edited)
Right! A sound temperament is not MADE by socialization - it is there and makes the dog into a social butterfly vs a more aloof but stable dog....As cited above, a timid temperament can be HELPED by socialization....I bet that Husky was OK, but never the outgoing gregarious dog it's littermates were by genetics....same with GSDs - the sound ones are just that way and do not NEED concentrated, deliberated social interaction....my 8 year old has NEVER been socialized with small childern - don't think she has ever met a child under 8 or 10....but went to stay at a friends for 3 days recently, and his 2 year old put a leash on her and dragged her all over their house telling her plaitz and sitz....and Basha did it....I never worried about her with a baby because she is so sound...same with Furi - she went at 2.5 to live with someone with a toddler - and the little girl will give both her (and the other GSD, Chuck) commands, and they not only tolerate, they obey the child (humor her more like LOL), that is sound genetics.


Don't take this as being anti-socialization - it is NOT - I am all for environmental stimulation and socialization - but the key is the genetics you begin with.

The pups seen by the OP were BYB at it's worst, and pups were of uncertain genetics above and beyond the sad, deplorable, sickening conditions where they were being housed.

Lee
 
#26 ·
When I was 22 years old I had worked at a large pet store. The entire left section of the building was for puppies. They all were separated by breeds and in dog runs. I was hired to work in the puppy department.
A litter of 5 Siberian Huskies were brought in one day and only 1 of them was timid. Her siblings all sold within a week. A family wanted the last one, but was concerned how scared she was of people, cowering, not wanting to be touched etc. I told them to come back in one week.
I ended up working with this pup bringing her into one of the puppy rooms we would use so a prospective buyer could sit and play with their dog.

Every day for hours, I would softly talk to this pup, giving puppy treats as rewards for coming to me, etc. I brought toys in and within 2 days she started to play. By the end of the week when the customer came back they were amazed at the personality change.
There are I am sure all types of reasons why a puppy may be fearful, but loving on them, playing with them, etc, sure as heck doesn't make them afraid to be touched, quite the opposite.
 
#27 · (Edited)
said in caps on my first post, FILTHY. The place stunk to high heavens, did you not read that the puppies food was mixed in with their stools and urine? Their kennel had more than 3 days worth of feces in there. 2 puppies, 4x a day of poop would be about 8 piles give or take. Not that I stood there and counted, but it looked to be mounds of it. This woman knew I was coming 2 hours prior and didn't even BOTHER to clean up the kennels. The puppies reeked of feces and urine. Their coats were sticky to the touch.The adults who are kept outside 24/7 had 3 sided housing. Granted, Animal Control may look at that as there is still some shelter, but some of the adults looked underfed and sickly.
RV>> apparently the above statement by the Emarie, doesn't count in your book as being a big deal.

As Jane, said, if no one speaks up about dogs/puppies being kept in deplorable conditions who will? People like you (RV) who would turn a blind eye to something that disgusting is disgusting in itself.

I see on your site you worked at a petstore for years training, I'm assuming a Petsmart/Petco type store, now you train on your own, and you look rather young, Maybe when you get older, you will have more sympathy for animals kept in those kinds of conditions. If nothing else, maybe an AC officer could educate the woman on keeping her dog/puppy area CLEAN.
 
#28 ·
RV>> apparently the above statement by the Emarie, doesn't count in your book as being a big deal.

As Jane, said, if no one speaks up about dogs/puppies being kept in deplorable conditions who will? People like you (RV) who would turn a blind eye to something that disgusting is disgusting in itself.

I see on your site you worked at a petstore for years training, I'm assuming a Petsmart/Petco type store, now you train on your own, and you look rather young, Maybe when you get older, you will have more sympathy for animals kept in those kinds of conditions. If nothing else, maybe an AC officer could educate the woman on keeping her dog/puppy area CLEAN.
Amen and well said.
 
#31 ·
Wow that is so sad! People like that just make me sick.

Good luck in finding your pup. Rescue is an awesome way to go. They have puppy's all the time. When we are ready to get a new puppy (a year or so from now) we already know that we are going to a great rescue in our area called the big dog ranch. I know you'll find a great puppy!
 
#32 ·
We have also rescued all of our dogs and haven't had any major problems with them.
Since you already had experience with a BYB, you know that every dog you rescue helps put them out of business.

That's always been our take on the rescue issue.

It always sets off a red flag when the only thing a breeder cares about is money. We have some friends who bred German Shepherds for a number of years and they have told us that it's not the business to be in if you're looking to get rich. If you break down the amount of time they spent vs the money they got it was depressing.
 
#33 ·
It always sets off a red flag when the only thing a breeder cares about is money. We have some friends who bred German Shepherds for a number of years and they have told us that it's not the business to be in if you're looking to get rich. If you break down the amount of time they spent vs the money they got it was depressing.
So true I am sure. However, it goes the other way as well. No one should look at getting a dog if they can't afford not only the basic care, i.e., food, shots, heartworm meds, etc., but what if, God forbid something bad happens and they need surgery, etc? When we had gotten Duchess our Lab, at 1 years old I noticed that when she went to sit down it was very slooooow. I took her to the vet because I had a gut feeling something was wrong with her hips. Yep. Her hips were OUT of the sockets. $2500.00 later, she had new hips and after completely healing was a brand new dog. Did the breeder have a hip guarantee? yes she did. However, when we got Duchess it was for life and getting a replacement didn't exactly "replace" in our book. We had 2 choices. Replace her hips or put her down. We replaced and never missed 1 dollar of what we spent to make her right.
 
#34 ·
Just a few days ago there was a thread posted about breeders and guarantees.
I've never bought a dog from a breeder, but I feel the way you do. Even with a guarantee, I don't know that I would want a "different" dog. I'd keep the one I had.
We didn't have to lay out that kind of money at one time but we had a couple of rescues that developed seizuers in later life. That was an expense, but there is no way I would have traded one minute with either of those dogs.

I guess that's how much they mean to us.
 
#35 ·
As far as warranties go I have 2 issues. One that it is only as good as the paper its written on Ive heard f a few people that have needed to use the warranty and the breeder wouldn't honor it. The second one is that most people don't want to give their dog up at 2-3 yrs old because of something. Personally I love my breeders warranty which is you can return the dog for a full refund or another puppy OR you can keep the pup and get half the money back or half the money applied towards a future pup. I think its great if you dont want another pup you can get half the money back and use it for surgery or whats needed for your current pup.

Back to the OP I agree with reporting the other "breeder" if AC finds a problem great if not well maybe it'll shake her up some to get her act together.
 
#36 ·
Most responsible breeders will give you an option to keep your pup and allow you to buy another with a discount of 1/2 of the purchase price in the future...if you are a companion home, it is unlikely that you will do either - but if you are a working/competition home, it is NOT uncommon to return a youngster who will then be placed in a pet home for free or small fee or put down if the HD is severe....(I have never done this! - but have never had a severe HD - if the pup was in pain, yes, I would probably opt for this....one of my puppy owners had a BYB dog of mixed AKC Show and Euro show had terrible EPI plus hips that dislocated, and was a spook on top of it and bit several family members at a holiday dinner - I held her hand for a year with Bocchi until she came to the realization that his quality of life was so compromised that it had to be done....yes she had a "guarantee" - of course the "breeder" had NEVER had a problem dog, and would only give her a half price full sibling....she had already gotten Galen and understood the difference good genetics makes.

Lee
 
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