You win Lou, I am a close-minded ignorant hypocrit who will not use an e-collar or suggest their use to anyone else.
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RIP Arwen, CD RN CGC 
RIP Whitney, RN CGC
Jenna, RN CGC
Babs, CD RA CGC Herding Instinct Certificate
Heidi, RA CGC
Tori, RN CGC
SG3 Odessa, SchH1, Kkl1, AD
Ninja, RN CGC
Milla, RN CGC
Joy, Star Puppy, RN CGC
Dolly & Bear
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